It was good to see The New York Times publish the kind of story we have been urging—one that describes the struggles of seniors forced to take their Social Security benefits early, risking the quality of the rest of their lives. Since the Times often sets the standard that other outlets follow, its piece this week describing the financial plight of a 62-year-old woman forced to take early Social Security benefits deserves a tip of the hat. Human stories can clarify policy debates, and we hope there will be more like this one.
Clare Keany of Palm Springs, CA, lost her $64,000 job in 2008 as an administrative manager at a Santa Monica advertising agency when two of the firm’s big clients left the agency. As she searched fruitlessly for full-time work, her unemployment benefits dwindled to zero, and she turned to odd jobs to make ends meet while living off her 401(k) money and profit-sharing accounts. This year, with her savings gone, she took her early benefit from Social Security—a grand monthly sum of $1,082. As her other money disappeared, Keany became desperate and used the last of her savings to buy a tiny one-bedroom mobile home for $19,000 near friends in Palm Springs. Her Social Security check barely pays the $336 mobile home park fees, utilities, the cellphone bill, insurance, credit card debt, and a satellite dish. She says she has cut back on fruits and vegetables and could not afford to buy a new glass window that was damaged in a windstorm. She covered it with a tarp.
Times reporter Motoko Rich framed Keany’s predicament with nice context that placed her in the company of others taking early retirement benefits.The chief actuary for the Social Security Administration noted that about 200,000 more people applied for early benefits in 2009 and 2010 than the agency had predicted before the recession, and the trend, he said, continued.
The reason: Older people like Keany can’t find jobs. According to the Urban Institute, 37 percent of older workers who lost their jobs between 2008 and 2011 did not return to the workforce, claiming Social Security benefits at age 62. That, of course, is perilous, as Keany has learned.
Alicia Munnell, who heads the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College, told Rich “the most potent lever that individuals can pull in trying to get themselves a secure retirement income is to postpone claiming” benefits. Those taking benefits early find themselves with a benefit that’s 20 or 30 percent less than they would have gotten at their full retirement age. That age is now 66 and eventually rises to 67. Proposed changes to Social Security would move the age even higher. If the retirement age were raised to 70 as some suggest, workers who take a benefit at age 62—assuming the law would still allow that—would receive only about 57 percent of what they would receive at age 70.
Keany still hopes to find work, but in the meantime she holds two part-time jobs in gift shops on North Carolina’s Outer Banks, where she is staying for the summer with friends. She’s discouraged. “We’re already has-beens, which is so sad. Some of us are still pretty productive,” she said. People in her age group can expect to live on average another 23 years.
I wish, however, that Rich had pushed her piece a bit further—telling readers the amount Keany would have received had she been able to wait until her normal retirement age of 66 to receive full benefits.That would have better driven home the point.
Even better: It would have also been good to discuss how people like Keany would fare under various Social Security proposals that elites have been sending signals about, perhaps as part of a grand political bargain to be made after the election.
Keany is representative of all those Americans we’re told should work longer. But she shows what can happen when work is nowhere to be found. That’s rarely discussed in the often-exuberant press coverage about the virtues of raising the retirement age.

When are we going to see the story of the struggle of the working mother of three who sees 10.4% of her gross income going off to the Gubmint to pay benefits to others"?
HUH? Because in THAT story you will find true hardship and injustice.
This latest tripe is just another of the silly "Trudy's people" crock stories.
A woman making $64,000 a year loses her job at the end of her career, and hasn't saved a dime for retirement? So she lives at the beach, works in a gift shop, collects Social Security and the Gubmint owes her something more? Her Gubmint check "barely" keeps the satellite TV going in her Palm Beach home?
We're supposed to sobbing because she blew through her money, was irresponsible, didn't prepare for retirement and chooses to work part-time at the beach all summer instead of looking for a job?
POOR woman! I bet she had to hitchhike from her West coast resort home town to her East coast resort summer retreat!
Seriously? We're supposed to be awash in tears over this?
But wait... She "hopes" to "find" work after she's done spending the summer at the beach?!
Such resolve in the face of abject Outer Banks gift shop enslavement!..
I bet she's looking for a high-paying admin job under every conch shell she finds!
What a crooked of pure, undiluted crap!
#1 Posted by padikiler, CJR on Fri 15 Jun 2012 at 11:46 AM
"What a crooked of pure, undiluted crap!"
Step back from the keyboard, take a deep breath, and stop thinking about old people "on vacation" for a week.
It's getting to you.
#2 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 15 Jun 2012 at 12:27 PM
A working 30 year-old mother of three who earns $10.50 an hour full time as a maid at the Holiday Inn in Nag's Head makes $21,840.00 per year.
Her payroll taxes will be $2271.36 (10.4% of her income).
That money is going to pay current benefits to the lady who made $64,000 per year, lives in Palm Springs, summers in the Outer Banks and who barely get her satellite TV bill paid on her Gubmint check every month.
Yep...
That's how it is.
#3 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 15 Jun 2012 at 01:49 PM
Wait till the retirement age is further pushed back. Americans will not only need to save for their retirement but will need to stash ever more money for the years between the labor market's tossing them on the woodpile and their receiving their SS benefits.
#4 Posted by Patricia Bee, CJR on Fri 15 Jun 2012 at 10:11 PM
I was forced to make the same decision, and get $427 a month. With $200 in food stamps, $100 in Google Ads income from The American Reporter and occasional charity, I can get by. I'd feel rich if I got $1,000. I have to pay $310 a month for HOA fees and more than $100 for GMAC auto insurance. What persuaded me to take the lower amount in addition to immediate need was that it would take something like 14 years to make up the 3 years of lost SSI income at the lower rate.
#5 Posted by Joe Shea, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 02:07 AM
Since when was Social in-Security ever intended to be a "retirement pension"? NEVER! Social in-Security IS and always HAS BEEN intended to provide a portion of recipient's income after age 65 when originally foisted upon taxpayers (62 or 66-67 as presently configured). QE1, QE2 + probable QE3 + defecit spending will result in hyper-inflation and actual destruction of Federal Reserve Notes. In order to get something from government theft in form of FICA stolen from wages one should take Social in-Security payments ASAP because economic collapse is inevitable.
#6 Posted by EruditeMan, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 08:33 AM
Why in the Hell am I paying for Joe's food when he owns a house and a car?
Sell your house, sell your car and buy your own damned groceries, you whiny crybaby!
THEN come crawling to the Gubmint for food stamps!
Now we have the working mother of three who lives in a apartment subsidizing Joe's HOA dues, buying his gas and Snickers bars?
WTF?
See what 80 years of commie stupidity has done? See what a useless and dependent society we have created?
#7 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 08:37 AM
"A working 30 year-old mother of three
"
Man this mother of three gets around.
#8 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 02:00 PM
"Why in the Hell am I paying for Joe's food when he owns a house and a car?"
You're not paying for anyone's food, you idiot. You are legally obliged to participate in a worker funded retirement and disability program as described in the Social Security Act. Joe did the same, as have all working Americans during the past 85 years. It's the law moron, not for Joe''s sake, nor for the young mother of three. We will all take benefits from that program when we need it most so that we will not be denpendent on hand outs from the rich and the stupid (like you).
#9 Posted by Jack, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 02:45 PM
Yeah...
Let's get this straight.
We're supposed to pay a lady who lives in Palm Beach with her satellite TV and chooses to summer 3000 miles away in the Outer Banks more Gubmint money because when she finally decides to stop vacationing at the beach she hopes to "find" work?
Oh...
And we're supposed to pay more money to Joe so that he can swing his crazy HOA fees, come up with his car payment and buy more Snickers bars on the Gubmint dime, because his Google ad revenue is running a little flat and because he can't be bothered to do any actual work?
And the working mom who doesn't mooch off the Gubmint is supposed to foot the bill.
This is where we are, right, guys?...
#10 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 02:45 PM
Jack wrote: We will all take benefits from that program when we need it
padikiller responds: First of all we "all" do no such thing. I've never taken any such benefit in my life and I would do anything - work the night shift at Walmart, McDonalds, Subway, whatever, before I would mooch... And if there ever comes a time when I do need such a benefit, I sure as hell won't own a home... Or an iPad, or a satellite dish... And I sure as hell won't be wasting my time on the internet bitching that it's not enough or checking my Google Ad balance.
So, who "needs" welfare, Jack?
Not a guy like Joe who owns a home, a car, runs Google ads, and is clearly capable of earning a living.
He doesn't "need" food stamps. He's just mooching off the Gubmint because he can and because he lacks the self-esteem to find shame in being a bum.
At the Walmart here in town, there is a greeter in a wheelchair with no legs and only one good arm who watches the door and keeps the carts straight.
This guy is paying for Joe's Snicker's bars because Joe can't be bothered to get off his ass and do some damned work.
Well live it up while you can, liberals. The Gravy Train has derailed and your mooching is coming to an end.
#11 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 02:58 PM
Dear CJR editors, I've not been reading these comments for a while now because they are generally over run by the fool who kalls himself padikiller. It is most unfortunate that a troll is shown the courtesy of participation in what might otherwise be an intelligent discussion. Padikiller equates a retirement/annuity program with both a death and disabililty component to welfare. He neglects the fact that only participants in the program who have paid into that program throughout their working lives are then entitled to receive benefits which are designed not to provide wealth, but instead to assure sustenance in old age. The rants that padikiller pollutes your site with are baseless diatribes which sound as though they may be the manufactured commentary of a right wing reactionary troll. The editors would do well to improve the quality of the discussion by editing out the comments of a troll.
#12 Posted by Jack, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 03:37 PM
Just out of curiosity -- how do we suppose someone like padikiller made his way here?
I have to believe this person is enjoying what he considers to be a fun prank or 'guerilla commenting experiment' at the expense of CJR's generally intelligent, sober and thoughtful readership. Very much too bad.
#13 Posted by nancy, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 06:20 PM
Unlike the CJR, I find the New York Times article to be very shallow and wanting.
1) It would appear that Ms. Keany had no pension or retirement fund beyond her 401 (K). Why is that the case? What decisions did Ms. Keany make in her work career such that she had neither a defined benefit nor a defined contribution plan sponsored by employer? How big was the nest egg of savings and the 401 (K) that Ms. Keany had built, and even if she didn't lose her job, was it likely that she would have built sufficient savings to fund a comfortable retirement?
2) The Times article does not mention health care or health care costs at all. Does she have insurance? What are her plans to cover health costs?
3) Many people, often at the suggestion of retirement planners. commence taking Social Security benefits early even if they do not need the funds at that time. Some do the arithmetic and find the "break even point" for benefits is something like age 82; only if the individual survives past that break even point will he or she draw more from Social Security by waiting to draw benefits until the later full-benefit age. The Times reporter and his editors failed to analyze this common planning evaluation; it would have placed the story of Ms. Keany's plight in a more complete perspective.
#14 Posted by jlgg11, CJR on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 10:19 PM
Ah, yes.. The Ole' Liberal "Ban the Troll" Schtick. So I am a "right wing troll"?
Ever notice how there is no such thing as a "left wing troll"?
And notice how it is always liberals who seek to hush the opposition?
Nobody is making this Jack crybaby read anything. He just can't debate the issues.
He can't seriously defend making a Walmart greeter pay for Joe's food stamps, when Joe owns a house that's worth paying more than $300 a month just in HOA dues. And a car. And a business.
So Jack seeks to silence the opposition
Hey, it worked for Mao! And Stalin! And Castro!
Why not make it work at CJR, right? It's the leftist way, after all!
Well, Jack, here is the Real Deal, buddy.
The ONLY one contributing substance to the debate here between us - the actual topic of the article - is me. You have nothing of substance to add and no point to make other than you want censorship.
When you can justify having a legless Walmart greeter paying for the food stamps for a grown man who owns a house outright and a car and a business... Get back to me. I'd LOVE to read your justification of this mooching.
Until then... Grow up and stop acting like an infant.
#15 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 12:47 AM
@Jack
Read the damned posts before you comment.
Joe wrote plainly that he sucks down food stamps.
As for his Social Security benefit, that was his choice. He could have done that 'work" thing instead of doing that "not work" thing and waited.
#16 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 01:04 AM
"And notice how it is always liberals who seek to hush the opposition?"
More than a few times have conservatives complained to hush me up. And when I've expressed frustration at curtails of my speech, you were the first guy to say 'you was asking for it!'
Must have been a case of the Mondays that day, right?
"The ONLY one contributing substance to the debate here between us - the actual topic of the article - is me."
The only problem being that substance is the same substance you've spread in a dozen other social security threads, as has been detailed here. We get it. You hate 'communism' and old people. Do you want a prize?
#17 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 03:43 AM
BS.
I have never condoned censorship in any way, shape or form.
I don't need to.
I have common sense, rock-solid reasoning and factual advantage working for me.
#18 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 07:47 AM
Returning to the topic of the article...
What is the horror story here?
That a woman who earned a good salary did nothing to prepare for retirement, divides her time between east and west coast beach resorts, and has a hard time paying her satellite TV bill because she opted to take early retirement?
THIS is what is supposed to be watering our eyes?
For real?
How about the poor slobs whose taxes go to cut this woman's check?
How about the inconvenient little truth that this lady will, in all statistical likelihood, suck down much more money in Social Security and Medicare benefits than she paid into the system?
The simple, undeniable fact of the matter is that "Somebody Else" will have to work to earn the benefits for our poor resort-dwelling beachcomber.
And therein lies a true tragic story of injustice.
#19 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 11:49 AM
Rather than banning a troll commenter, I would suggest that other commenters simply ignore someone whose comments aren't worthy of responding to, and carry on the threat as if the troll hadn't intervened. No one is forcing anyone to read or comment on any particular posting.
#20 Posted by Harris Meyer, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 01:11 PM
All the ostriching in the world won't get our resort-dwelling, beachcombing early retiree's satellite TV bill paid, Harris.
We need some constructive ideas here, pal!
How are we going to find enough of somebody else's money to keep HBO on in her west coast beach house?
#21 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 01:23 PM
More demands for personal accountability posted under an assumed name.
#22 Posted by Bob Gardner, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 09:25 PM
"Rather than banning a troll commenter, I would suggest that other commenters simply ignore someone whose comments aren't worthy of responding to, and carry on the threat as if the troll hadn't intervened."
Unfortunately, that is the way bad arguments, false information, and workplace intimidation proliferates.
When people fail to challenge aggression, aggression gets sanctioned. When people fail to challenge lies, it's assumed they must have some truth to them.
We're talking about audience perceptions, not the rules of fair debate. We all know this troll is not a fair debater (Duh, he's republican.) but we're participants, not audience. When we refuse to participate, the audience assumes the reason why is that we can't.
Ultimately, it's more amusing to make them cry and sing them songs.
#23 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 17 Jun 2012 at 11:31 PM
@Thimbles, Bob, Harris, Nancy, Jack et al
Guys, I understand the offense to your liberal sensitivities rendered by my ironclad reasoning, but your "burn the witch, ban the troll!" comments won't get our resort-dwelling, beachcombing early retiree's satellite TV bill paid.
We need to come up with a way to get Somebody Else to foot the DirectTV bill and we need to do it fast!
Imagine the horror when our poor victim of "vampire capitalism" jets to her Palm Beach home after summering at her east coast resort of choice, only to find a black screen instead of Bill Maher.
HBO is a basic human right, people!
We're dealing with a crisis of national import, and thank God Trudy was there to reprint the NYT's expose.
Call your congressmen! Occupy Nags Head! And Palm Beach!
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!
#24 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 18 Jun 2012 at 09:29 AM
If the person was working, then where would the problem be if she spent her income on satellite tv instead of fruits and vegetables?
The problem isn't what she's spending her money on. The problem is her source of income. The economy which you a-hole bankers and you republicans crashed doesn't have jobs for people hitting the evening of their lives. 2 part time jobs at gift shops don't pay the satellite bill like they used to.
And now you republicans want to raise the retirement age again because people aren't getting their asses kicked enough. Because the poor ain't poor if they gotta satellite dish.
#25 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 18 Jun 2012 at 01:01 PM
As a financial reporter, I face this problem all the time -- finding a "clean" anecdote subject to illustrate financial stories. Anyone I feature had better be a Simon-pure financial genius with no debt who never made any kind of financial or life mistake, or readers (and often editors) pounce like padi by blaming the victim. I have spoken to plenty of readers who had good jobs and were "responsible" but still wound up penniless (including one who foolishly drained his 401k to keep his house out of bankruptcy. Then he lost the house anyway, had to declare BK and found out he could have protected his retirement account if he'd declared BK earlier. But he was being "responsible," living up to his promises, etc., etc. Now, I suppose, he's just a fool for Padi and others to pummel if I ever write about the poor guy.)
Imagine if we had bailed out only the "responsible" Wall Street bankers. Our financial system would be in a shambles, because they were all engaged in fraud and culpable in the extreme. But only the "deserving" poor should get help, incl. the SS benefits they are entitled to, because it's OK if we live in a country full of failed older workers starving and dying in the streets, just don't let the banks fail.
#26 Posted by Brian O'Connor, CJR on Mon 18 Jun 2012 at 03:09 PM
Brian O'Connor wrote: Anyone I feature had better be a Simon-pure financial genius with no debt who never made any kind of financial or life mistake, or readers (and often editors) pounce like padi by blaming the victim
From the New Unabridged Dictionary of "Professional Journalism", 1st Edition:
vic·tim
[vik-tim]
noun
1. a person who earns $32 an hour, saves nothing for retirement, yet chooses to retire early and divide her time between the home she owns outright in Palm Beach and her summer retreat in the Outer Banks and enjoys watching satellite TV on her check from the Gubmint until she "finds" a job.
Origin:
1933; victima irresponsible, greedy spoiled child.
synonyms; idiot, moron, fool, irresponsible jerk, lazy mooch, crybaby, whiner
E.g, "The victim earned a bunch of sky miles jetting between her home in Palm Beach and her summer resort in the Outer Banks."
#27 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 18 Jun 2012 at 05:14 PM
@Brian O'Connor
You write that "all" bankers were engaged in fraud and "culpable in the extreme" and you wonder why you get blowback from your editors?
Seriously?
I am at least heartened to learn that somebody is keeping this kind of silliness on a leash (even if it is a long and stretchy leash).
As for the old people "starving in the streets", I don't believe our jet-setting, resort-dwelling, satellite TV watching homeowner has anything to worry about.
Your point is well taken, though. Why just today I had to swerve three times on the way to work to miss hitting a bunch of starving elderly roadhogs...
And finally... The bailout was stupid. Bush should have been impeached for it and Obama ought to be impeached for it. But we're not talking about the bailout here. We're talking about a woman who made a choice to retire early so she could hang out at the beach. Nobody forced her to do it.
She is NOT a "victim" despite your silly, leftist claim to the contrary.
#28 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 18 Jun 2012 at 06:56 PM
"You write that "all" bankers were engaged in fraud and "culpable in the extreme" and you wonder why you get blowback from your editors?"
Most of them were. From 1999 to 2009 we saw 16 trillion dollars of wealth evaporate from investors, clients, and institutions. The honest and smart ones were purged and dismissed. What were left (with few exceptions) were either stupid and/or evil.
And yeah, editors were the ones who missed that story for the most part.
"As for the old people "starving in the streets", I don't believe our jet-setting, resort-dwelling, satellite TV watching homeowner has anything to worry about."
No, that person has little to worry about because we all paid premiums into a social insurance plan which covers us in cases of economic collapse and/or personal catastrophe which prevents us from working.
When we pay insurance premiums, we pay to cover an eventuality. We're not paying for someone else satellite tv when we pay social security, just as we're not paying for someone else's new house when their old house gets consumed in a brush fire. We're paying for coverage in case something happens. When something happens to another premium payer, that doesn't mean she's stealing from the system or rate payers when she accepts her coverage. The problem is, you bastards who crashed the economy want to change the terms of that coverage. Why?
#29 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 19 Jun 2012 at 06:40 PM
Well, there was a very good article by David Cay Johnston on the subject recent like.
http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/05/04/social-security-is-not-going-broke/
"Let’s look at how Social Security taxes have grown in the last half century — a little-known tale of tax burdens shifted off the rich and onto workers. From 1961 through 2011, the year covered in the last Social Security report, Social Security taxes exploded from 3.1 percent of Gross Domestic Product to 5.5 percent.
Income taxes went the other way. The personal income tax slipped from 7.8 percent of the economy to 7.3 percent, with most of the decline enjoyed by people in the top 1 percent of incomes. The big drop was in the corporate income tax, which fell from 4 percent of the economy to 1.2 percent. Notice that the corporate income tax fell by 2.8 percentage points, an amount almost entirely offset by a 2.4 percentage point increase in Social Security taxes.
The effect has been to ease the taxes of the wealthy, while burdening the vast majority of workers. Considering how highly ownership of stocks is concentrated, the benefit of those lower corporate taxes went overwhelmingly to the top 1 percent and, especially, the top 1 percent of the top 1 percent. Considering that the Social Security tax is capped, most of the burden of the increased payroll tax went to the bottom 90 percent.
Now let’s look at how that $2.7 trillion Social Security surplus arose. In 1983, President Ronald Reagan sponsored an increase in Social Security taxes, changing the program from pay-as-you-go to collecting much more taxes than it paid in benefits. The idea was to have the Boomers prepay part of their old age benefits. The extra tax was supposed to pay off the federal debt and then be invested in federal bonds. Instead, Reagan ran huge deficits, violating his 1980 promise to balance the federal budget within three years of taking office.
FINANCING TAX CUTS
In my view, building the Social Security surplus has had two major effects.
One effect was to finance tax cuts for those at the top, whose highest tax rate fell during the Reagan years from 70 percent to 28 percent, and for corporations, whose rate fell from 50 percent of profits to 35 percent. Those with less subsidized those with more.
The other effect was a huge increase in consumer debt, as Americans saddled with higher Social Security taxes took out loans to cover other needs. Stagnant wages played a role, but the $2.7 trillion Social Security surplus is also a factor in a $1.5 trillion increase in consumer debt since 1984.
It is no wonder consumers have gone into debt. Paying a tax in advance is expensive. Indeed, the first lesson in tax planning is that a tax deferred for 30 years is effectively a tax avoided, provided the money is invested wisely. The reverse is also true. A dollar of tax paid in 1984 cost $2.20 in today’s dollars, and that’s before counting the interest that could have been earned."
I'm not interested in talking about the opulence of somebody's satellite feed while you a-holes are rolling in the proceeds of tax cuts and fraud. I don't see how you can text crap about some poor lady's mobile home from the comfort of your gold plated toilet.
Maybe if you crooks weren't so well compensated for putting the economy in a car crusher, we'd take your lectures on the welfare of others more seriously.
#30 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 19 Jun 2012 at 06:54 PM
What is Social Security?
Is it an insurance program? Or is it a welfare program?
Liberals can't make up their minds on this issue.
When it comes to a discussion of benefits, well then it's an insurance program, by God... An entitlement. You get, because you put into it. You paid the premiums. You paid for it.
But when it comes to paying for Social Security, suddenly, it's a welfare program. The "poor" are overburdened by the "taxes" (they're not "premiums" anymore, suddenly). The "rich" are getting a free ride.
Well, if Social Security is an insurance program, it is an unjust one. The people who pay the most in "premiums" receive proportionally the least in benefits. This is the precise logical equivalent of charging a 50 year old with a spotless 35 year driving record three times more for auto insurance than an 18 year old kid with two DUI convictions.
And if Social Security is a welfare program, it is an unjust one because it uses taxes paid by low-income wage earners to pay benefits to retirees regardless of their means or income. The hotel maid with three kids pays taxes to support benefits paid to millionaires.
Liberals are very careful to isolate Social Security benefit payments from the premiums/taxes that fund them. Case in point: David Cay Johnston's article,, cited by Thimbles.
When they talk about payroll taxes (in the context of "inequality") leftists never, never, never talk about benefit payments. Why? Because the simple truth of the matter is that people who pay the least into Social Security recover proportionally the most benefits from it, that's why. And this little truism doesn't fit their "inequality" fairy tale.
Conversely, when they talk about benefits, they never mention taxes. Why? Because any discussion of tax fairness jeopardizes the entitlement mentality.
What the liberals want Social Security to be is simply a means of redistributing wealth. A way to take Somebody Else's money and give it to a more deserving class. And when you point this out, you end up with nothing in reply but a bunch of juvenile name-calling and redirection.
Fortunately, the way the political winds are blowing, this Marxist crack dream is highly unlikely to come true. Benefits will be reduced, one way or the other. The American people have made it pretty clear that they will not tolerate the level of taxation necessary to transform Social Security into a leftist welfare program, and Obama himself nailed the coffin shut on the idea when he cut payroll taxes "temporarily" and started draining the trust fund.
Once general taxes go to fund Social Security, the game is up on the "entitlement" crapola, and the entitlement proponents will find it impossible to defend the program from reform when the money gets tight.
#31 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 19 Jun 2012 at 07:32 PM
"Liberals can't make up their minds on this issue."
It's not welfare. It's an insurance program that protects the elderly, the disabled, and the destitute. Why? Because if it were welfare, scumbag republicans would have taken a blowtorch to it 40 years ago.
Instead, it's a program which has lifted 20 million seniors out of poverty, according to the cpbb, and prevented a bunch of others who's prospects were sunk BY YOUR BANKER FRIENDS (never going to admit your blame for that, are you) from going bust.
"But when it comes to paying for Social Security, suddenly, it's a welfare program. The "poor" are overburdened by the "taxes" (they're not "premiums" anymore, suddenly). The "rich" are getting a free ride."
They're taxes when the proceeds aren't being used to pay promised benefits, instead they are being used to offset tax cuts to millionaires and above (because of Republicans 30 years ago). And yeah, the rich are getting a free ride. They pay nothing as a percentage of their income in FICA tax, yet they receive the benefit of the income tax and capital gains offsets. Plus they receive their benefits when they qualify which you grouse about because "a poor working mother of three," (which you couldn't give two craps about when it comes to her kids' daycare, her wages, or their medical care) "is paying for some rich guy's retirement, boo hoo."
The free ride is the tax cuts on marginal and capital gains income and the FICA cap.
"Well, if Social Security is an insurance program, it is an unjust one. The people who pay the most in "premiums" receive proportionally the least in benefits."
By that definition, ALL INSURANCE PROGRAMS are unjust. In order to stay in business, insurers have to collect more in premiums than they pay out in benefits. By definition, the majority of people insured by insurance will not qualify for benefits that equal their investment. Insurance is not an investment, it is the mechanism by which risk is socialized.
Which everybody who's an idiot will assume is unjust until the risk hits them like a banana cream pie in the face. Then, suddenly, it's all "OMG, I thought I had a solid 401k like that lady in the mobile home with the satellite dish, but some stupid and evil bankers threw all that money into a enflamed dumpster so they could pocket bonuses. Good thing I had some guaranteed social security."
"The American people have made it pretty clear that they will not tolerate the level of taxation necessary to transform Social Security into a leftist welfare program"
No, the american people will tolerate taxes going up on people like you. Search the polls.
#32 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 19 Jun 2012 at 09:32 PM
Fer instance-
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-10/cain-pulls-even-with-romney-on-economy-for-republican-supporters-in-poll.html
"Fifty-three percent of self-identified Republicans back an increase in taxes on households making more than $250,000, a sentiment at odds with the party’s presidential candidates, who will meet tonight in a Bloomberg-Washington Post-sponsored debate focused on economic issues.
More than two-thirds of all Americans back higher taxes on the rich and even larger numbers think Medicare and Social Security benefits should be left alone, according to a Bloomberg-Washington Post national poll conducted Oct. 6-9."
PS. In other news, somebody's editor must not have been looking.
#33 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 19 Jun 2012 at 09:37 PM
Wait a minute, Thimbo!
We're not talking about income taxes. You're moving the goalposts again.
We're talking about payroll taxes that pay the "premiums" on your "insurance" program. Show me a poll that indicates that a majority of Americans support an increase in payroll taxes. Good luck with that.
As I wrote, and as you ignore, Social Security is a thoroughly unjust "insurance" program because the people who receive the most benefits in proportion to their contributions, pay the least in premiums.
It is precisely like charging bad drivers less money than good drivers from car insurance. STOOPID. And completely unjust. If your insurance agent told you that your premium was increasing because your driving record wasn't bad enough, you'd laugh him out of town. Yet this is EXACTLY how Social Security "insurance" works.
What you are advocating is simply snatching money from the people you deem to be "rich" and doling it out to the people you deem to be "poor". This is NOT an insurance scheme. It is a Marxist welfare scheme. Robin Hood.
And history has shown that such Marxist wealth-snatching ends in misery and oppression in every instance.
#34 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 19 Jun 2012 at 10:43 PM
"We're not talking about income taxes. You're moving the goalposts again."
No, if you've got a problem with goal post moving, take it up with republicans Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan. They converted a pay go plan into one that built up a huge cash reserve. To pay out that reserve and the expenses of government the reserve offset for your tax cuts, the American people support raising income taxes on the rich. They also support raising the payroll tax cap. You and your elites don't support that because you and your elites believe in taking (often stealing) you don't believe in giving back.
But you will, or there will be blood.
#35 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 12:02 AM
What "cash reserve" are you babbling about?
There is no cash stored anywhere. Just another liberal lie.
Time to toll the Reality Bell, yet again!..
In FACT, the Social Security Trust Fund is comprised entirely of IOU's. The cash is taken from workers and employers and paid into the general fund of the U.S. Treasury where it is spent immediately. In exchange, Congress gives the Social Security Trust Fund IOU's that are not transferable or marketable in any way, shape or form.
You can't walk into a 7-11 any pay for a Big Gulp with a Trust Fund IOU.
Sorry, Dude, but this is just one of those irrefutable fact-thingies.
Reality 1, Thimbles 0
You are right that we are probably headed for violence, but not over Social Security.
Violence will come when the Gubmint check doesn't bring the crack money on the 1st of the month. We're dealing with a dependent underclass that will steal, rob, maim and kill instead of working for a living.
We're just going to have to go through that process and put down the criminal element among the mooches.
And then, we'll be in a much better place.
#36 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 07:20 AM
"Just another liberal lie."
Republican lie. You keep trying to point the REALITY away from yourself.
The trust fund was a republican creation in which republicans pretended to store the payroll tax revenues that were promised towards taking care of the baby boomers.
Democrats went along and actually tried to build up surpluses so they could store actual revenues in a "lock box" for when the baby boomers retired.
Unfortunately, your president, the one who removed all oversight from the banks by appointing deregulatory advocates in charge of enforcing regulation, passed a whole bunch of stupid, unfunded tax cuts (oh, wait. You claim tax cuts by definition can't be "funded" even though they create deficits. Republicans only care about funding tax cuts when the cuts are for the middle class) and left the economy in a ditch.
The Bush years killed everybody's income and net worth except the one's at the top. Your tax cuts were offset by social security revenues, now your taxes will offset social security expenses until the fund is zeroed out and then we can talk about adjusting the program so it pays as it goes.
But until you've paid your bill, you don't get to walk away leaving an "untransferable or marketable IOU" on the table. You dined on tax cuts, you don't get to dash.
Try and there will be blood, I'm warning you. We've seen this play before in America.
#37 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 01:03 PM
Thimbles.
There is no "cash reserve". Period.
Try using a Trust Fund "Security" to buy yourself a Big Mac, and let us know how that works out for you.
The lefties always threaten violence. But thuggery isn't going to work.
Social security benefits WILL be cut and Obama has greased the skids by cutting payroll taxes.
Liberals CLAIM that Social Security is an entitlement and that benefits are due to contributors who paid into the system.
But what liberals REALLY want is for Social Security to be wealth-snatching welfare program whereby the "1%" pay benefits to the "99%".
Trouble is, entitlement programs and welfare programs are polar opposites.
When the Gubmint checks stop hitting the mailboxes of the mooches, there will likely be instances of violence, but these incidents will be handled, and those who choose to mooch will have to do so through incarceration.
We went through welfare reform and the crime bill under Clinton, and I hardly think we will see armed gangs of Social Security retirees taking over our streets when Social Security reform in inevitably enacted.
I know that the class envy and greed of the left engenders these fantasies of lust and violence, but it just isn't going to happen.
#38 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 01:49 PM
Wealth transfer from the rich to the poor - (thats rich!) - as if they just burn the cash in barrel fires to keep warm. "Comfortable" people need to realize that "poor" people spend their miserable checks on RENT. (you cant get full SSI unless you pay your own way, BTW) so really, we can trace the "transfer of wealth" right from those dirty pov mitts right into the pockets of honest, hard-working property OWNERS, and ultimately into the accounts of their own creditors, where the cash may then be used for investment banking, hedging, acquisitions etc. In fact, poor people spend every dime they get their hands on, and many more dimes they promise to pay back later, at BUSINESSES that sell products and services - like healthcare and medicine. Lets all stop pretending the buck stops after the check is mailed, please.
#39 Posted by commie mooch, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 06:15 PM
Wealth transfer from the rich to the poor - (thats rich!) - as if they just burn the cash in barrel fires to keep warm. "Comfortable" people need to realize that "poor" people spend their miserable checks on RENT. (you cant get full SSI unless you pay your own way, BTW) so really, we can trace the "transfer of wealth" right from those dirty pov mitts right into the pockets of honest, hard-working property OWNERS, and ultimately into the accounts of their own creditors, where the cash may then be used for investment banking, hedging, acquisitions etc. In fact, poor people spend every dime they get their hands on, and many more dimes they promise to pay back later, at BUSINESSES that sell products and services - like healthcare and medicine. Lets all stop pretending the buck stops after the check is mailed, please.
#40 Posted by commie mooch, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 06:18 PM
Wealth transfer from the rich to the poor - (thats rich!) - as if they just burn the cash in barrel fires to keep warm. "Comfortable" people need to realize that "poor" people spend their miserable checks on RENT. (you cant get full SSI unless you pay your own way, BTW) so really, we can trace the "transfer of wealth" right from those dirty pov mitts right into the pockets of honest, hard-working property OWNERS, and ultimately into the accounts of their own creditors, where the cash may then be used for investment banking, hedging, acquisitions etc. In fact, poor people spend every dime they get their hands on, and many more dimes they promise to pay back later, at BUSINESSES that sell products and services - like healthcare and medicine. Lets all stop pretending the buck stops after the check is mailed, please.
#41 Posted by commie mooch, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 06:20 PM
This might be someone worth talking to:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/01/stiglitz-depression-201201
"Yes, America had many things about which it could be proud. Companies in the information-technology field were at the leading edge of a revolution. But incomes for most working Americans still hadn’t returned to their levels prior to the previous recession. The American standard of living was sustained only by rising debt—debt so large that the U.S. savings rate had dropped to near zero. And “zero” doesn’t really tell the story. Because the rich have always been able to save a significant percentage of their income, putting them in the positive column, an average rate of close to zero means that everyone else must be in negative numbers. (Here’s the reality: in the years leading up to the recession, according to research done by my Columbia University colleague Bruce Greenwald, the bottom 80 percent of the American population had been spending around 110 percent of its income.) What made this level of indebtedness possible was the housing bubble, which Alan Greenspan and then Ben Bernanke, chairmen of the Federal Reserve Board, helped to engineer through low interest rates and nonregulation—not even using the regulatory tools they had."
#42 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 20 Jun 2012 at 10:47 PM
Now wait a minute...
You're telling us now that regulators caused the housing bubble?
I thought "Wall Street" fraud did it?
#43 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 21 Jun 2012 at 07:02 AM
"You're telling us now that regulators caused the housing bubble?
I thought "Wall Street" fraud did it?'"
Ugh. We've been through this.
Are you going to cry again?
#44 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 21 Jun 2012 at 01:06 PM
We agree with the CJR that this New York Times article is indeed the type of story that we need to see more of. While we also would have liked to have seen the a comparison of how much Keany’s Social Security benefits>/a> would have been if she had begun collecting at the normal retirement age, the article still calls attention to the increasing number of Americans applying for early benefits. With unemployment continuing to be an issue all across the country, the increasing number of individuals turning to the SSA demonstrates why real reform measures are necessary to help ensure this system can help those who need it the most.
#45 Posted by Troutman Troutman, P.C., CJR on Fri 29 Jun 2012 at 11:58 AM