Here’s the chart of the day, from Syracuse’s Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse via The New York Times’s Catherine Rampell:
Prosecutions of financial-institution fraud have plunged over the last two decades, and are running at roughly one-third the average pace in the 1990s, even as overall prosecutions have more than doubled.
The biggest fall was under George W. Bush, but prosecutions have continued to slide under Barack Obama, despite the orgy of corruption during the housing bubble and its subsequent collapse.
— Related, in a sense, Jeff Madrick compares today’s top 0.1 percent to the robber barons of the late 19th century:
This runaway at the top is different from other periods of great inequality, like the late 1800s. Back then, the Robber Barons may have kept money due to monopoly advantages and their power over workers. All the while they were adding to GDP by building oil and steel giants, railroads, and mass production companies from chewing gum to cars.
Today’s people at the top exploit workers in somewhat different ways. There is constant pressure to keep wages down by CEOs in order to push up stock prices. This is the modern-day Robber Baron equivalent. Corporate takeover and leveraged buyouts have had the same effect: they build up cash flow by cutting expenses in order to pay off the debt they took on for their huge acquisitions. This is how Wall Street helps creates a culture in which it is considered okay for a company to fire workers while giving its CEO a giant raise.
But much else of what happens on Wall Street has nothing to do with the real economy, except to waste hundreds of billions of misdirected savings that are plowed back into useless speculation and casino-like gambling on trades among themselves. As we have seen, it was this kind of reckless trading that fueled the credit crisis and the collapse of investment houses like Lehman in 2008
— The Wall Street Journal’s Jess Bravin has a good page-one story on how a decade-old law is pitting religious groups against cities and businesses by giving it preferential treatment on zoning issues:
Such battles are playing out across the U.S., from Litchfield, Conn., where officials argue that quintupling the size of an 1870s building to house a synagogue would mar the historic downtown, to Yuba City, Calif., where a county supervisor opposed a Sikh temple in an agricultural zone for interfering with the “right to farm.”
In each case, the arguments are much the same: The religious group says federal law entitles it to do what its faith commands on its property, while cities, fiercely guarding their zoning powers, resist federal interference in decisions that affect local character and economic development.
The issue touches on some of America’s fundamental legal principles. The Constitution limits Washington’s power over state and local government. Yet it also grants Congress authority to enforce fundamental rights, including freedom of religion, and to regulate interstate commerce, which courts have interpreted broadly.


Here come the Chittum 5000 Black Helicopters in full Whisper Mode!
Ryan, our resident "advocate of a policy of government-enforced redistribution of wealth similar to communism" (though, pursuant to Pravda.. er, I mean CJR commenting policy no longer permitted to labeled a "commie")... Trots out the same old dead horse and beats it yet again..
His brain rejects the reality that, as President Obama has stated, the reason fraud prosecutions are down is that there are fewer fraud crimes being committed.
In Chittumland, unspecified nefarious "Wall Street" villains go unpunished for unspecified crimes.
Every time a company loses money, a crime has occurred (unless we're talking about Solyndra or some other leftie outfit, of course).
,
#1 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 08:45 AM
In accordance with the recent esprit de civil, I'm going to avoid making posts where I call a-holes a-holes when they are acting like a-holes.
One of the things which has come to pass over recent decades is the radicalization of the judiciary. This has led to some questionable decisions and interpretations of law that have helped Goldman Sachs, in particular, and hurt global investors.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE76K6H020110721?irpc=932
"In a decision made public on Thursday, U.S. District Judge Barbara Jones in Manhattan said the plaintiff, Basis Yield Alpha Fund, failed to sufficiently show that its investment in the Timberwolf 2007-1 collateralized debt obligation was a "domestic" transaction, entitling it to sue in a U.S. court...
Jones dismissed Basis' lawsuit after concluding the fund did not allege that "any purchase of sale" took place in the United States, as required under a 2010 U.S. Supreme Court decision. This was so, she said, even though some of Goldman's alleged fraudulent statements were made in New York."
Oh man. Were I a global investor, I would totally avoid doing business in America. Where else can a company falsify or reneg on a transaction and walk away because "neener neener, it wasn't conducted domestically enough for the court"?
The morrison vs national australia bank decision basically gives American companies a licence to rip off investors and traders in other countries since:
"It is a “longstanding principle of American law ‘that legislation of Congress, unless a contrary intent appears, is meant to apply only within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.’...
Nonetheless, the Second Circuit believed the Exchange Act’s silence about §10(b)’s extraterritorial application permitted the court to “discern” whether Congress would have wanted the statute to apply...
Rather than guess anew in each case, this Court applies the presumption in all cases, preserving a stable background against which Congress can legislate with predictable effects. "
So basically there's now a loophole which the judges have left to congress to tighten. Does the licence to rip off extend to criminal charges too? Looks like:
http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/insight/2010/11_-_november/sec_must_revise_goldman_charges_after_morrison_decision/
"The Securities and Exchange Commission must convince a federal judge in Manhattan that a recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling does not require her to throw out charges against an ex-Goldman Sachs executive who allegedly sold a subprime securities portfolio that was rigged to collapse.
U.S. District Judge Barbara Jones of the Southern District of New York allowed the SEC to file an amended complaint against former Goldman Sachs Vice President Fabrice Tourre to show why the agency's securities fraud charges are not barred by Morrison et al. v. National Australia Bank Ltd. et al., No. 08-1191, 2010 WL 2518523 (U.S. June 24, 2010).
In that ruling the Supreme Court said the federal securities laws do not give U.S. courts jurisdiction over fraudulent transactions when they occur outside the United States and involve foreign companies and investors. Tourre contends that his case fits that description."
Awful.
#2 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 01:56 PM
[Just for the record, we have no plans to get rid of anonymous commenting.
#18 Posted by Justin Peters on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 12:06 AM].
Just for the record, I do not want to be associated with either padikiller or Thimbles. The synergistic ranters.
Or any other obsessive posters of anonymous blather. It is insulting and paternalistic to imagine that Americans and Canadians can do no better than that.
As for the ludicrous comment that black helicopters are getting ready to hover, or that I want to snoop into someone's private live, that is absurd. My very point is that posters should avoid making personal comments that will generate conflict.
The playground was many years ago. If you can't post your own name, you are usually embarrassed to be a serial poster of drivel.
I remember a comment by a British blog owner that he was told that a certain reader would no more post at a blog than she would set up her tent in a dung heap. Now I see what she meant.
Just separate the Reader Comments into two columns: one for the Hooded Strangers, and the other for People Not Ashamed of Themselves.
I don't like the paternalism, where I have it attributed to me that I don't deserve any better than to loaf around the hood with people who won't put their names to what they say.
Oh yes, I get it. These people have day jobs. They are worried about that. Sure. It makes sense that anyone with a serious job would be able to spend all day ranting on CJR.
#3 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 02:12 PM
Clay, I'm afraid that you're not being very on topic and that your hurtful words are not in accordance with the espirit de civil.
Please attempt to contribute on topic and to be more affable in general.
Remember:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGt9jAkWie4
#4 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 03:55 PM
Don't you think calling someone a "synergisitic ranter" is a little too inflammatory for these comment threads?
Where are the censors?
Justin! We need you!
#5 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 04:02 PM
Sigh.
#6 Posted by Justin Peters, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 06:13 PM
So "ranter" is OK... And so is "racist pedophile"... But "commie" is a no-no here at Pravda... er, I mean CJR.
Because labeling someone a racist sexual predator isn't "inflammatory" like calling someone a communist is.
Yep... There's no bias here at Pravda... er, I mean CJR.
#7 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 06:38 PM
Justin, I thought you were the hardscrabble, recidivist ace-in-the-hole who could bring some order to this wild east CJR Internet Frontier.
There is a subtle music in it somewhere, Justin. You just need to put your finger on it. You can do it. I just sense it. For no particular reason, perhaps.
There is someone to turn to if all else fails. If she still lives. Sante Kimes. "Son of a Grifter." Her story. She is/was a woman with an ordered mind. A compelling vision.
Clayton Burns PhD
President and CEO
American Atlantis Grifter Corporation
#8 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 06:58 PM
Can we please talk a little about the topics in Ryan's post, please?
Like the robber baron age for instance:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_great_divergence/features/2010/the_united_states_of_inequality/introducing_the_great_divergence.html
"In 1915, a statistician at the University of Wisconsin named Willford I. King published The Wealth and Income of the People of the United States, the most comprehensive study of its kind to date. The United States was displacing Great Britain as the world's wealthiest nation, but detailed information about its economy was not yet readily available; the federal government wouldn't start collecting such data in any systematic way until the 1930s. One of King's purposes was to reassure the public that all Americans were sharing in the country's newfound wealth.
This was the era in which the accumulated wealth of America's richest families—the Rockefellers, the Vanderbilts, the Carnegies—helped prompt creation of the modern income tax, lest disparities in wealth turn the United States into a European-style aristocracy. The socialist movement was at its historic peak, a wave of anarchist bombings was terrorizing the nation's industrialists, and President Woodrow Wilson's attorney general, Alexander Palmer, would soon stage brutal raids on radicals of every stripe. In American history, there has never been a time when class warfare seemed more imminent."
A time when the 1% took 18% of the national income, not like today where they capture 24%.
And people wonder why OWS is in the streets?
#9 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 07:00 PM
The difference between 1915 and 2011 is in the profound "work inequality" of modern times.
80 years of policies brought about by "advocates of a policy of government-enforced redistribution of wealth similar to communism" (though, pursuant to Pravda.. er, I mean CJR's, commenting policy no longer permitted to be labeled as "commies") have created an unproductive, dependent and lazy underclass.
According to the census, the average adult in the bottom quintile of American income-earners works only 14 hours per week, while the average adult in the top quintile works more than 36 hours per week.
Hmmmm... There seems to be a direct correlation between working and income!
Whodathunkit?!
#10 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 07:40 PM
Wow, way to pull out the unexpected Sante Kimes reference. +1 for Clayton Burns.
And thanks for trying to get things back on topic, Thimbles.
#11 Posted by Justin Peters, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 07:40 PM
President Barack Obama: Drone Kills Top Al Qaeda Figure - WSJ.com - Wall Street Journal.
Wall Street President Barack Obama.
Al Qaeda President Barack Obama.
On these two files, the President has been brilliant. Re a certain kind of results.
On income inequality: routine redistribution would just be tinkering.
If the President could understand his education file, he would be the best President of all. That is where fundamental improvements could be made that would ripple through into deeply meaningful changes over the next 100 years.
However, despite his background, the President is clueless when it comes to education. It is his worst-performing file. He should fire everyone he controls anywhere near this file and start over.
I am willing to explain how.
#12 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 07:53 PM
Income Inequlity Explained:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Household_Characteristics_and_Income.png
#13 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 08:50 PM
I played with sizing it up and down, padikiller. That was fun. Up to a limit. Clayton.
#14 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Thu 17 Nov 2011 at 09:59 PM
Yeah yeah. The bottom 20% are no good and lazy according to saint paddy.
Do you think there might be reasons why they don't work? Lazy invertebrate slobs is all your imagination can tolerate?
There are plenty of legitimate reasons for being poor, unemployed, and low income that have nothing to do with being a good little worker like padington.
For instance:
http://jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=628ca26b-7433-4fca-8f53-aa713eb3e756
The bottom 20% often have disabilities, often come for areas experiencing economic blight (which means their schools turn to sh*t), often have drug war related crime on their records, often have kids without the income to afford family support options like simple baby sitting (never mind the nannies and private schools of the 1%), often have issues and problems that would overwhelm any human being... And that's not counting the conservative caused global recession we've had for the last 4 years now.
Thou complain about the bottom quintile not working hard enough? You go tell that to a veteran who's waking up with night sweats and has panic attacks as he walks down to the bus stop that his problem is that he needs to get a job and work harder.
You don't know the bottom 20%, you just judge them and assume their problems boil down to a lack of pride. Life isn't that simple and perhaps one day you'll learn that, as the karmic wheel makes its turn.
#15 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 04:06 AM
Hell of a time to be a young kid in the bottom 20%, looking for work:
http://jec.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=adaef80b-d1f3-479c-97e7-727f4c0d9ce6
Q: Why there's so many young people at OWS?
A: What's the alternative?
#16 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 04:20 AM
Spoken like a hardened "advocate of a policy of government-enforced redistribution of wealth similar to communism" (though, pursuant to Pravda.. er, I mean CJR's, commenting policy no longer permitted to be labeled as a "commie")
The alternative to smoking weed, crapping in the street, living off of the kitchen tent, banging on drums and forming committees is called a "J O B".
The simple, undeniable R E A L I T Y is that the average adult in the bottom quintile of American income earners works less than two days a week.
And they wonder why the top 20%. who works more than twice as many hours per week on average, make more money?
Too, too silly,
#17 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 06:59 AM
Gotta have jobs to work. And full time jobs? Not so easy in the low skill service industries to find.
Again you're looking to blame instead of diagnose.
The diagnosis?
http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/income-info/
http://www.bsos.umd.edu/socy/vanneman/socy441/trends/share1.html
Conservatives have pushed the value of work down through deunionization and trade policy. Now there's no demand for bottom rung labor and you want to blame workers for not looking hard enough.
The bottom 20% have real problems finding work whether it be because of pricey education demands, family burdens, or disabilities. The conservative solution is to add to their problems. "They're not hungry enough. What we need to do is pamper the rich so that their table scraps can trickle down."
Hasn't worked for the decades it's been tried, but I don't suppose that will change the minds of some people.
#18 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 01:56 PM
The truth is there in black and white. Look at the data, for crying out loud.
The more you work, the more money you get, across the spectrum!
Money for working? WHAT a concept! Whodathunkit?
The answer to the "income inequality" is solving the "effort inequality" problem that plagues our nation.
The solution to this problem is a particularly easy one - simply stop paying people not to work. Stop handing out free houses to people who don't work... Or free Band Aids... Free Snickers bars... Free crack money... Etc.
UNLESS these people are truly disabled and lack resources, of course.... In which case they should be institutionalized and cared for humanely in secured government institutions at public expense.
If the average welfare-sucking leech wants the benefits of living free in a free society, he'll have to support himself. Otherwise he becomes a ward of the state and checks out of the freedom business.
We need to reverse the 80 years of "government-enforced wealth redistribution" (which we can no longer call "commie policy" under the new commenting censorship here at Pravda... er, I mean CJR).
This simple change would fix everything.
#19 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 03:04 PM
If one were to skip a particular article and you were to base your belief of what the subject matter is solely on the discussion in the comment section, what post number (on average) would you have to reach before having absolutely no idea what the article was about?
#20 Posted by Bob Canuck, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 05:14 PM
"If the average welfare-sucking leech wants the benefits of living free in a free society, he'll have to support himself."
Where are the jobs then padi? Kids of poor Americans are going to get bad schools, bad profiling, low opportunities, no employer health care, few hours, little social mobility and why?
"Today’s people at the top exploit workers in somewhat different ways. There is constant pressure to keep wages down by CEOs in order to push up stock prices... This is how Wall Street helps creates a culture in which it is considered okay for a company to fire workers while giving its CEO a giant raise.
But much else of what happens on Wall Street has nothing to do with the real economy, except to waste hundreds of billions of misdirected savings that are plowed back into useless speculation and casino-like gambling on trades among themselves. As we have seen, it was this kind of reckless trading that fueled the credit crisis and the collapse of investment houses like Lehman in 2008"
Today's robber barons don't give Americans jobs. Where's the work going to come from? Unemployment has doubled since 2007. Half the unemployed didn't suddenly decide in 2008 "I'm going to be a welfare-sucking leech." The bankers sure did, but the unemployed didn't get a choice - their jobs vanished.
And good jobs have been vanishing since 1979. That's why in spite of the bottom quintile working more hours:
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/20/47723414.pdf
their incomes have decreased:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/05/united-fair-economy/liberal-group-says-family-incomes-grew-equally-pri/
Americans have become more productive, put in more labor, and their wages stagnate if not fall? Ain't that a funny kind of capitalism.
So keep defending the welfare sucking leeches - the ones who have emptied the American, nay the global economy into their pockets and avoid any consequences for the fraud that enabled it.
I'll be standing here with the 99%. In the end, it'll be better to stick to the side with more pitchforks.
#21 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 05:59 PM
Interesting data.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7LzE3u7Bw
"If one were to skip a particular article and you were to base your belief of what the subject matter is solely on the discussion in the comment section, what post number (on average) would you have to reach before having absolutely no idea what the article was about?"
I know, I know. I apologize for my contribution to this issue.
#22 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 06:11 PM
Problem?
People aren't working enough..
Solution?
Stop paying people not to work.
It ain't complicated.
#23 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 08:43 PM
Problem?
The rich have been literally stealing from the middle class while avoiding paying their taxes.
Solution?
Throw them in jail and let the rot there.
It ain't complicated.
#24 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 09:11 PM
How will putting the "rich" in jail address "income inequality"?
HUH?
You "advocates for government-endorsed wealth distribution" (who can no longer be called "commies" according to Pravda's... er, I mean CJR's new censorship policy) need to stay focused.
#25 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 09:16 PM
The people I used to call commies (before doing so was banned by the censors here at Pravda... er, I mean CJR) have a REAL problem with that "doing work" thing.
The very idea of doing work for money gets their blood boiling
Well, work is the answer...
Only work creates wealth.
Beating on drums doesn't create wealth, unless somebody pays you to do it. Marching on Manhattan millionaires (except for George Soros, Michael Moore and Paul Krugman) doesn't create wealth. Up-twinkling with the rest of the sub-committee doesn't create wealth.
Flipping burgers creates wealth. Mopping floors creates wealth.
This is just the R E A L I T Y.
Want wealth?
Do work.
Problem solved.
#26 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 09:31 PM
How does putting criminals in jail and returning their ill-gotten riches to the people they're owed to address inequality?
I would have thought the answers were obvious.
Question? Why do you think society is better off when it's in the charge of welfare-sucking leeches who use fraud to enrich themselves on the proceeds of societal impoverishment? Don't frauds deserve to rot in jail?
#27 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 09:42 PM
Of course frauds deserve to go to jail..
Whether it's bank fraud... Or unemployment fraud, as a certain "advocate for government-endorsed wealth redistribution" (who can no longer be called a "commie" in the face of Pravda's, er, I mean CJR's new censorship policy) admitted to in the thread where my post was censored.
The problem you guys have is that losing money isn't "fraud" like you wish it would be.
#28 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 09:48 PM
I know you "advocates for government-endorsed wealth redistribution" (who can no longer be called a "commies" in the face of Pravda's, er, I mean CJR's new censorship policy) don't like hearing it... But the REALITY is that the way to solve the "income inequality" problem is for the "poor" people to do more work.
PERIOD.
That's just how it is.
#29 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 09:53 PM
"The problem you guys have is that losing money isn't "fraud" like you wish it would be."
Fraud is fraud. When you knowingly sell products that are poison as if they aren'tand bet on their failure, when you knowingly have people sign your name on forms before a judge that you haven't bothered to read, when you knowingly tell clients you are giving them one product while offering - sometimes altering - a contract that's something else, when you knowingly lie to shareholders after using your company's leverage to take huge risks for the purpose of booking bonuses based on nothing, these things are fraud - or, as people in the wall street business call it, a day's work.
We all know you losers think unemployment fraud and other poor people fraud deserves jail, I didn't ask your opinion on that.
I asked if you think the welfare-sucking leeches who commited the crimes above should go to jail, the real jail where the poor people go with the rapists and murderers. Your answer was "[that] isn't "fraud" like you wish it would be."
It is. That's the problem. The solution is take back the money they robbed, charge them with a crime, throw them in jail.
That would scare the rest of the rich towards being honest in business and paying their bloody taxes.
We should be talking about training our society for the new century, upgrading our infrastructure for the new century, helping our elderly survive into the new century, using clean and conservationalist technology to allow the planet to suffer the demands of the billions to come in the new century. Instead, we're talking about "the problem derp derp is the elderly have it too good, the poor derp derp don't work hard enough, business derp derp doesn't have enough free reign over our lives". Some time in jail, I suspect would cure one of such a stupid disposition.
You commit the crime? You do the time. Send the scum all to jail and empty their bloody wallets on the way in. It's not complicated.
#30 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 18 Nov 2011 at 10:44 PM
Thimbles ranted: The solution is take back the money they robbed, charge them with a crime, throw them in jail.
padikiller responds: Charge WHOM with WHAT crime?
#31 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 08:19 AM
Who's responsible for the timberwolf, magnetar, class V deals that took toxic assets off bank balance sheets and put them on clients, which allowed the banks to bet on deals they privately admitted were "pieces of shit".
Citibank alone put 20 billion of this crap on the market:
http://www.propublica.org/article/did-citi-get-a-sweet-deal-banks-says-sec-settlement-on-one-cdo-clears-it-on
Who was responsible for loading up bank balance sheets with crappy assets when the market became aware of the risks in 2006 (due to AIG's refusal to remain a CDS patsy) and inspite of corporate executives' fiduciary duty to shareholders?
http://www.propublica.org/article/banks-self-dealing-super-charged-financial-crisis
Who's responsible for the whiteout on Countrywide mortgage broker desks, making standard practice the falsification of borrower details on loan contracts, the robo-signers which made the falsification of court submitted documents on behalf of companies like Litton Loan Services? Who's responsible for all this Padi? Who's responsible for the wiping out of trillions of dollars in value from investors? We know the crimes, we know which companies committed them, we know the aftermath in taxpayer bailouts and decades of lost economic growth, tell us who Padi! Shouldn't these companies be punished, the details of their fraud be published, and the parties responsible be put in jail?
Or would that be one of your tedious instances of: "advocacy for government-endorsed wealth redistribution" (which can no longer be called "commie" in the face of Pravda's, er, I mean CJR's new censorship policy)"
Because to me, it's more in the spirit of communism to allow institutions to commit crime unpunished and to expect the rest of society to pick up the tab.
And it's an added insult to injury when that society has been deprived by the modern ivestment bank robber barons who, for so long, have refused to invest in American society and labor because predatory debt was so much more profitable and Chinese labor was so much more cheap.
Pretty much the whole FIRE sector of the economy should be set on fire and delicious smell of sautéed leech should fill American streets.
Why don't you tell us who those leeches are Padi? You sure don't ask for ID when it's the crimes of the poor, the crimes of the government, or the crimes of wall street protestors you're railing against. Nope, the existence of offense itself is fine enough to claim the parties you don't like responsible.
The offenses of the welfare-sucking leech class on wallstreet are plain and I expect investigation to produce the details required to send individuals to jail and to take back the proceeds of crime. But as far as pointing out the parties responsible? How many investigations did you conduct before you held Fannie and Freddy responsible for the 2007 crash? How many ID's did you require and produce? None? I don't see how banks merit a higher standard of proof than your preferred targets. How many breaks should we award these leeches?
#32 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 02:27 PM
Thanks, Padikiller/Thimbles. Keep grinding it out. It is so interesting that I can barely stay awake. Thimbles/Padikiller.
How to grind "ideas" into the dust. Are you "two" running an informal seminar, the "two" of you, on terminal boredom?
Are you "two" secretly in love? Or are the "two" of you the same person? Taking a bit of time out from the day job. Sure. I will believe anything.
I enjoy wasting my time on nothing. Two simple ideas. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
#33 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 02:55 PM
Alas, poor Clayton, it would please my heart not to have to counter push every old lazy argument and every old lazy lie, but someone has to do the housecleaning.
Because when it doesn't get done, the cjr folks start publishing stupid authors, stupid arguements, and stupid articles on things like Breitbart's llama (kid you not, look it up) and I imagine it's partially motivated to avoid the right wing bullying.
As I have posted in the past:
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/olbermanns_big_gamble.php#comments
"As a member of a grossly self damaging species and as a father who has to pass on a world damaged out of our collective ignorance, I say we cannot afford another 20 years of trivial, judgmental, uninformed journalism. If elections and policy weren't decided based on the misperceptions of sloppy journalism, if wars weren't fought based on the the careless words of negligent journalism, if people didn't die based on the fears fostered by dishonest journalism, I wouldn't take the time to type."
But that is the world in which we live. In every environmental thread, social security thread, critical of wallstreet thread, right wing "2 minute hate" target thread you find the same bunch of people putting forth their arguments in the most nasty way possible.
Is there anyone else consistently pushing back? Anyone at all? Because, for myself, there are things I'd rather be doing that are to do with my life. But I take my time to do this because, if I don't, no one else does. Not consistently.
And the right wingers? They never sleep. They will ever push their fun house view of the world and will make up in abrasiveness and slander for what they lack in fact.
So I'm sorry if this conflict bothers your delicate eyes, but what is your solution to the housecleaning problem? I'm asking honestly, I want to know.
#34 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 04:07 PM
And in other news, how do the robber barons really feel?:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/18/us-wallst-disconnect-idUSTRE7AH0Z620111118
"There's a vast cultural gap between Wall Street and his new world, he says: Old friends from the Street, he says, now jokingly refer to him as a "socialist." A credit union is supposed to be run in the interests of all members, he says, while commercial bankers tend to see consumers as customers who can be "exploited" by layering on more fees.
Says Mooney: "I don't say this lightly, but the consumer is simply an income stream and exploiting that is the purpose of
leechesthe banking organization."..."I think everyone gets what the anger is about... But you just can't say, 'Well I want all debts forgiven.' That is not happening [for you]," says one West Coast trader, who like most still working in the financial services industry, declined to be identified by name in this article...
To put it bluntly, many on Wall Street still see the events leading up to the financial crisis as a case of banks having legitimately sold something - whether it be mortgages or securities backed by those loans - that someone wanted to buy...
Atteberry says he understands the frustration many feel about income inequality. But he said the problem isn't with those who are successful, but rather our "tax codes and regulations."...
Former Wall Street practitioners say the Street does not lend itself to a lot of introspection. "The world of investment bankers and especially the trading floor region is notoriously hermetically sealed,'" says Kenneth Froewiss, a retired JPMorgan Chase investment banker and former finance professor at New York University's Stern School of Business. "The walls may be filled with screens beaming the latest news, but there is typically an obliviousness as to what is happening across the street."...
Now that he's no longer working for PIMCO, McCulley is a bit more free to speak his mind.... McCulley noted that mortgage firms Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been propped up by about $169 billion in federal aid since they were rescued by the government in 2008, yet there's a "a moral overtone" to the argument against reducing mortgage debt burdens for individual borrowers.
"Wall Street capitalism has given us a foul stench in our society," says McCulley.""
They are incapable of learning until they feel the cold reality of cuffs wrapping tight around their wrists. We're not doing them any favors by helping them go along with their delusions that what they did was not crime.
#35 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 05:08 PM
You're preaching to the choir, Thimbles.
I'm not defending any crime. Anybody who committed a crime should be prosecuted, as I have repeatedly advocated.
However, as President Obama said most of the bad decisions made "weren’t necessarily against the law".
In order to prosecute any particular person, he or she has to be guilty of some particular crime - a statute that has specific elements.
#36 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 05:42 PM
If it's good enough for peaceful protestors:
http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/11/19/police-pepper-spray-ows-student-protestors-directly-in-their-faces-at-occupy-davis/
surely it's good enough for the people who have robbed police pensions of millions, if not billions.
"U.S. Bancorp was sued by an Oklahoma police pension fund over allegations investors in mortgage bonds were hurt by the bank failing to ensure that securities were backed by loans.
U.S. Bancorp knew mortgage loans underlying the bonds weren’t properly transferred to trusts and caused investors to suffer millions of dollars in losses, Oklahoma Police Pension and Retirement System said in a complaint filed yesterday in federal court in Manhattan...
The mortgages loans were pooled and securitized by Bear Stearns, the investment bank that was acquired by JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) As the trustee for the two trusts at issue in the lawsuit, U.S. Bancorp was required to take steps to ensure the securities sold to investors were properly backed by mortgages, the pension fund said."
That's because the sales and bundling were likely recorded in MERS (to avoid municipal fees for every security transaction) and the titles weren't passed.
"The bank, for example, was required to take physical possession of documents in mortgage-loan files and review the files for any defects. Transfer of the proper documentation was needed for the trusts to take ownership of the loans, the Oklahoma fund said.
U.S. Bancorp’s failures meant securities purchased by investors “were not, in fact, legally collateralized by mortgage loans,” according to the court filing. The pension fund filed the complaint as a class-action, or group, lawsuit, and seeks to represent other investors."
Ohhh, why didn't they just use robo-signers to forge and witness the documents, just like the other banks?
Why aren't people going to jail over this crap.
#37 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 05:50 PM
The only time you ever put stock into a single word Obama says is when he's protecting his and your bank buddies.
The fraud was everywhere. The evidence is everywhere. The industry is desperately trying to sign off on billion dollar deals to protect itself from litigation and criminal penalties everywhere.
You're trying to use the results of corrupt government's corrupt regulatory apparatus to argue the absence of prosecution equals the absence of crime?
I am not preaching to the choir. I am demanding that, for once, you and your industry face the music.
#38 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 05:58 PM
Dude...
If you can name an actual human being who committed a specific crime (and if you have proof of it)... I'm with you, Brother! Throw the book at them.
And if you can name any particular government law enforcement officer or prosecutor who is failing to investigate or prosecute any crime... Toss 'em out! Give me the names of these corrupt officials (and the proof that they're not doing their jobs) and I'll write all of my congressmen right now.
But if you can't do this (and I don't think you can, given your multitudes of posts of unspecified "fraud" by unspecified people)... Then take a chill pill and deal with the reality. Losing money in the market isn't a crime. Making bad decisions isn't a crime. Puffery and sloppiness aren't crimes.
Ryan, our resident "advocate of government-endorsed wealth redistribution" (who can no longer be called a "commie" under Pravda's... er, I mean CJR's new commenting censorship policy) tried some name-dropping a while back and ended up falsely accusing government regulators of conspiring with "Wall Street" to "run out the clock" on criminal prosecutions.
You have to be careful about tossing out accusations like that.
Now, you won't get any argument from me that there are criminals in the financial sector... Just as there are criminals everywhere...
And you don't need to convince me that government regulators are largely ineffective and incompetent.
But it's not a crime to be a lazy, incompetent bureaucrat or a "Wall Street" manager who makes bad investments.
It just isn't.
#39 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 06:31 PM
"But if you can't do this (and I don't think you can, given your multitudes of posts of unspecified "fraud" by unspecified people)"
Man! *sniffle sniff* It's only after I go to the trouble of posting the details of Goldman Sach's Timberwolf deal, Citigroup's Class V deal, the whole industry's create artificial demand deal, the Bear Stearns pushback on New Century Capital deal (go on, check the links), the countrywide wite-out deal after all that you indicate to me you can't read? All my work goes unappreciated.
"Then take a chill pill and deal with the reality. Losing money in the market isn't a crime. Making bad decisions isn't a crime. Puffery and sloppiness aren't crimes."
Hey look Ryan, suddenly Padi totally agrees with you on the Solyndra deal.
http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/reporting_on_solyndra.php
"Venture capitalists give startups capital in the unlikely hope that their companies will turn into the Next Big Thing. For every Google that makes it megabig, there are hundreds of companies that lose their investors’ money or muddle along. More than half of the firms backed by venture capital go bust and investors lose their money."
And that's no crime, nothing worth investigating at any rate according to Padi and Ryan, amirite?
Here comes the sun, do dee do do!
#40 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 08:08 PM
Examining the so-called "income inequality" of today with the "income inequality" of 1915 leads to some interesting data.
In 1915 the average work week was well over 40 hours in all of the blue color trades - construction, coal mining, railroads, and manufacturing:
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/whaples.work.hours.us
Indeed... The poorer you were then, the MORE hours you worked.
Today, the commie policies that have created a lazy, welfare-dependent underclass have resulted in a grotesque outcome - an underclass that does almost no work when compared to the middle and upper classes.
What we are dealing with is "work inequality crisis" of extraordinary magnitude.
Here is some interesting (though alarming) information from the census:
1. The average American household in the bottom quintile has 0.43 income earners, while the average American household in the top quintile has 1.96 income earners. Thus, the top quintile, on average, has more than 4.5 times as many people in the household working as the bottom quintile does!
2. The average adult in the bottom quintile works just over 14 hours per week, while the average adult in the top quintile works 36 hours per week - thus on a household basis, the average household in the bottom quintile does a whopping total of 6.2 hours a week (0.43 earners per household times 14.4 hours worked per earner on average = 6.2 average hours worked per household). In contrast, the average household in the top quintile does 70.6 hours per week of work (1.96 earners per household times 36 hours worked per earner on average = 70.6 average hours worked per household).
This means that the average number of hours worked per week in a household in the bottom quintile is only 8.8% of the average number of hours worked per week in a household in the top quintile.
For every hour worked by a member of the bottom quintile, a member of the top quintile works 11.3 hours!
3. 62% of households in the bottom quintile have NO income earner at all, while just 3% of households in the top quintile have no income earner.
4. 40.4% of American adults who do not work at all are in the bottom quintile, while only 7.9% of adults who do not work are in the top quintile - thus for every adult in the top quintile who does not work, there are more than five adults in the bottom quintile who do not work.
5. 6.4% of American adults who work full-time are in the bottom quintile, while 26.2% of American adults who work full-time are in the top quintile - thus for every one person in the bottom quintile who works full-time, there are more than four people in the top quintile working full-time.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/hhinc/new05_000.htm
#41 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 19 Nov 2011 at 10:50 PM
Changing the subject already? I thought you wanted more specifics on your banker friends. Oh, but have no fear, the so called - in your own little mind - commies didn't press charges and all class action suits were settled for 208 paltry million.
Why is OWS out in the streets? Because the leeches sucked the houses dry and not a finger was lifted to stop it.
Not an effin' finger. "Communists" :roll eyes:
#42 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 12:13 AM
Let's remember, Eric Holder is a white collar defense attorney from Covington & Burling.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/02/23/countrywide-mozilo-fraud-no-prison-trial-sec-mortgage-meltdown-deal-crisis/
He's not going to go 180° in the opposite direction he used to work and represent. He isn't going to go 10.
And neither is his staff.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/business/schneiderman-is-said-to-face-pressure-to-back-bank-deal.html
"Ms. Wylde said in an interview on Thursday that she had told the attorney general “it is of concern to the industry that instead of trying to facilitate resolving these issues, you seem to be throwing a wrench into it. Wall Street is our Main Street — love ’em or hate ’em. They are important and we have to make sure we are doing everything we can to support them unless they are doing something indefensible.”"
There is something sick within the American system, and it isn't the poor.
These people need to be ripped out of the political process and they need to go to jail. This is not rule of law. This is not democracy. This is not a republic. This is a patronage enabled cleptocracy.
And it will not get any better until the streets are so full of angry people the corruption must turn and run.
People like padi and the rest want to distract you from this reality. Do not let them.
#43 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 12:30 AM
Turns out we do have a statute of limitations issue.
http://firedoglake.com/2011/02/18/statute-of-limitations-for-securities-fraud-burns-us-attorney-for-sdny-fiddles/
This was published in February and was telling us then that the fraud of 2005 had expired. Now were close to 2012. Are we going to let them run out the clock on the whole fraudulent package?
They will not prosecute on their own.
#44 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 03:11 AM
Article by Mike Hudson
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/some-modest-proposals-for-reforming-the-u-s-financial-and-tax-system-2.html
" The Occupy Wall Street movement has many similarities with what used to be called the Great Awakening periods in America. Such periods always begin by realizing how serious the problem is. So diagnosis is the most important tactic. Diagnosing the problem mobilizes power for a solution. Otherwise, solutions will seem to come out of thin air and people won’t understand why they are needed, or even the problems that solutions are intended to cure.[hey, shock doctrine!]..
What’s basically wrong is that the financial system is running the government. For years, Republicans and Democrats both have said that a strong government, careful regulation and progressive taxation is the road to serfdom. The politicians and neoliberal economists who write their patter talk say, “Let’s take planning out of the hands of government and put it in the ‘free market.’” But every market is planned by someone or other. If governments step aside, then planning passes into the hands of the bankers, because of their key role in allocating credit.
The problem is that they have not created credit to finance industrial investment and employment. They have lent for speculation on asset price inflation using debt leveraging to bid up housing prices, stock and bond prices, and foreign exchange rates...
The banking system’s alternative to “the road to serfdom” thus turns out to be a road to debt peonage. This financial engineering turns out to be worse than government planning. The banks have taken over the Federal Reserve and Treasury and put their lobbyists in charge – men such as Tim Geithner and the others with ties to Rubinomics dating from the Clinton administration, and especially to Goldman Sachs and other giant Wall Street firms...
People see that law enforcement is missing when it comes to the banks and Wall Street. So simply restoring the criminal justice system would be progress. It used to be that if you ran a fraud, if you cheated people, if you lied on your income tax and falsified statistics, then you would be sent to jail. But the Obama administration has appointed Eric Holder to represent Wall Street. He has not thrown any bankers in jail, recognizing that they are the major campaign contributors of the party, after all."
There's a lot more that I didn't quote. Worth reading.
#45 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 03:33 AM
Last one for this evening, I swear. Sorry for the flood.
But in other news!
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/matt-stoller-nevada-attorney-general-catherine-cortez-masto-cracks-open-the-financial-crisis.html
"Learn the name Catherine Cortez Masto, because she just took a big leap in front of every public servant in the country in terms of restoring faith in government. As Nevada AG, she actually indicted someone for blowing up our housing system. Specifically, she handed down 606 counts of felony or gross misdemeanor indictments on robo-signing against two employees of big bank subcontractor Lender Processing Services.
It’s pretty clear from the indictment that these are mid-level employees, one level up supervisors of fraud rather than top CEOs. And yet, even if this were as far as it goes, it would still be a big deal. These would be the only charges served involving the housing crisis and its link with the structurally corrupt securitization chain so far...But you don’t throw 606 counts against someone if all you’re going for is jail time for that person; this is about starting at the bottom, and flipping people. It could be the takedown of the mortgage servicer mafia, and then back to the origination....
I think it’s important to begin considering criminal justice as a core element of economic policy. I’d like to hear from Suskind, Klein, Krugman, and others just where they think allowing massive systemic fraud fits into the analysis of what went wrong. After all, Eric Holder had ample prosecutorial discretion, so none of the usual arguments about political constraints apply. Allowing the corrupt monetary channel to continue was simply a policy choice. If the under-resourced Nevada Attorney General could make such a different policy choice, then a powerful by comparison White House and Justice Department could make it as well. And this sort of show of power does not operate in a vacuum. Taking on, and taking down, corrupt members of the elite would also have exposed all sorts of fracture lines, and would likely have change the Congressional dynamics that people argue is immutable. Bank executives would have had a strong personal incentive to fix housing problems and excessive debt loads, and politicians react differently when an act is officially deemed a crime."
Great news.
Next question, so Padi... Is that specific enough for you? Are you ready "to throw the book" at the crooked leeches who support a crooked banking system? Are you going to make calls to your congress people and to other politians supporting this prosecutor and the opening of similar prosecutorial efforts in other states?
Are you with the banks or are you with America?
It's not complicated.
#46 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 04:19 AM
Thimbles wrote: "Next question, so Padi... Is that specific enough for you?"
padikiller wonders: Is WHAT specific enough for me?
That an attorney general has indicted two peons in Nevada?
Kind of runs counter to your argument that prosecutions are being stymied, doesn't it?
Anyway, as I've said here ad infinitum... I do not condone criminal behavior. If these people (or any other people) committed crimes then they should be prosecuted.
But the prosecution of two low-level employees hardly a scandal makes.
To answer your direct question, Thimbles, no, your post is not specific enough for me. I asked you to identify specific people who committed specific crimes that are going uninvestigated or unprosecuted or to identify specific corrupt government investigators or prosecutors.
You have never done this and you aren't doing it now.
And the reason you haven't done it is that you can't.
Because as President Obama clearly stated, most of the losses in the financial market were the result of actions that "weren’t necessarily against the law".
That's just how it is.
#47 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 07:22 AM
" wonders: Is WHAT specific enough for me?"
Forget it Padi. Anyone reading here can see NOTHING will be specific enough for you. No amount of fraud will ever rise to the level of systemic or prosecutable.
You have different standards for poor people, the GSE's, and solyndra than you do for banks. Every time fraud comes up, no matter the evidence, you're going to be all "whirley whirl" with your black helicopter shtick.
It's what you're paid to do.
#48 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 01:43 PM
Thimbles wrote: Anyone reading here can see NOTHING will be specific enough for you.
padikiller responds: Baloney.
As I have always plainly stated, bankers and "Wall Street" execs who committed crimes should go be prosecuted and incompetent or corrupt bureaucrats should be fired.
But WHO are these people? And WHAT crime did they commit?
In order to prosecute someone, or jail someone, or fire them...
You have to know WHO the person is and WHAT the person did.
This is all I am asking you to provide.
And your repeated stupid claim that I am being paid to post here is just stupid lie. The readiness with which you resort to lies is even more telling than your unwillingness (or your inability) to identify any particular "Wall Street" criminals.
#49 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 08:17 PM
'padikiller' is getting desperate because now everybody knows.
Better change your fake name again and move on to your new set of victims, 'padikiller.'
It must be hard being a sociopath. The victims always find out.
#50 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 08:33 PM
Yeah...
And my comments are too "inflammatory"...
Add "paid shill" and "sociopath" to "racist pedophile" in counting the stupid, juvenile names I've been called here.
I just thought Clayton was a little off... I'm disappointed to see him resort to regurgitation of Thimbles' stupid lies.
#51 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 09:14 PM
All original perceptions on my part, 'padikiller.'
There is a long paved pathway near my house--surely a quarter of a mile--filled with Canadian geese shit. If the municipality put up signs, maybe the birds would stop doing it.
That is what your writing 'could' be compared to. Just shit to step around. Of course, if I hold to that comparison--I'm not saying--I stole it from somebody else.
Have a nice evening, and keep dropping your wisdom on the screen. Luckily, smell does not carry well on the Internet.
#52 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 09:28 PM
All because I questioned your ability to construct a proper sentence with COBUILD grammar?
Ad hominem is all you have?
I mean, we get it, Clayton. You don't like me. You don't like Thimbles. You don't like CJR's commenting policy. And if you were in charge, you think things would run better.
That's more than a tad juvenile, wouldn't you concede?
#53 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 20 Nov 2011 at 10:11 PM