Now that it’s certain that our leaders have gone all in on austerity, despite a 9.2 percent unemployment rate and an economy that looks like it’s sliding back into recession, it’s time for the press to redouble its focus on the unemployed, and particularly the long-term jobless. Actually, it was already long past time for that. Now it’s really time for it.
Alexandra Jarrin lost her solidly middle-class job in March 2008, shortly after the recession began, and hasn’t found work since. Her unemployment benefits ran out in March 2010 and she’s since lived off food stamps and the beneficence of friends and strangers and the state of Vermont, where she moved to take advantage of its universal health care program.
Her story has been told in The New York Times (twice), on CNN, in the Huffington Post (at least three times), and now in the Brattleboro (Vermont) Reformer. My first reaction was to wonder why this one woman has gotten so much media attention when there are millions of others like her out there. My second is that somebody ought to hire her to do PR. She’s apparently very good at it.
I’m glad she is. It’s useful to trace the story of one person struggling through the recession. Our habit as journalists is to do one-and-done stories on people like Jarrin, reporting their struggles as a snapshot in time that we don’t follow up on. That’s especially unfortunate on long-term stories like the terrible economy, which officially went into recession three and half years ago and has added few jobs in the two years since the recovery began. There are four or five unemployed people for every job opening. Meantime, it would cost about $30 billion annually to put a million people to work cleaning parks, painting roofs, or tutoring kids at $30,000 a year.
The particularly insidious thing about long-term unemployment is that the longer you’re out of work, the harder it is to get a job. Employers are overtly discriminating against the unemployed in hiring decisions, forcing states to pass laws against it, as the Times reported last week. The median duration of unemployment in this recession is an all-time high of nine months, meaning such discrimination “disqualifies millions.”
All this means that barring a roaring recovery—and is there anybody out there who sees that in the next five years?—these folks may never again find work that fully uses their abilities, if they find work at all. So tell us their stories, and keep us updated periodically on them.
That’s what the NYT CNN, NPR, the HuffPost, and now the Brattleboro Reformer have effectively done, however accidentally. Let’s retrace her story in the press.
We first met Jarrin in November 2009 in the Times in a story on whether Congress would extend unemployment benefits. Jarrin was the anecdote on 99ers—people who were about to exhaust their extended unemployment benefits:
Alexandra Jarrin, 48, was laid off in March 2008 from her job in New York as a director of client services. As she searched widely for a job, moving back and forth between New York and Tennessee, she received aid of more than $400 a week that, she said, just barely ”kept my head at the waterline.”
But her extensions ran out early last month and in subsequent weeks, as Congress deliberated, her life fell apart. She has just started receiving what will be 14 extra weeks of aid under the new law, but faces eviction from her apartment in Brentwood, Tenn. ”There’s no way I can recover now, I’m too far behind,” she said.
In August 2010, the Times profiled Jarrin on page one. By then, her unemployment benefits had run out five months earlier, and she had moved back to Vermont, for the health care and the better job market and because that’s where she “had spent most of her adult life.” She was now living in a motel:
“Barring a miracle, I’m going to be in my car,” she said…
She has applied for everything from minimum-wage jobs to director positions.
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What exactly does a "director of client services" at a tech company do? This woman presumably had no savings and blew $100k on a worthless education. What's the usual prescription from the lefties? More worthless education! Funny how you want more unemployed people profiled, yet the essential questions about savings and past excesses are almost never asked. Obviously a recession is going to hit some unlucky people hard, but down-cycles are a fact of life: that's why there's something called savings, apparently an alien concept to some. Of course, govt-provided unemployment benefits exacerbate the problem by leading people to believe somebody else is doing the saving for them, so they don't have to.
As for the unemployed being "discriminated" against- and ignoring her case because who knows, maybe she just doesn't have many skills- there is no doubt that hiring practices at most companies are pretty retarded. Companies will often hire someone away from another firm who isn't that capable, while ignoring better unemployed candidates or new college graduates because they don't have "experience." But you don't solve that stupidity by putting more retarded and unenforceable laws on the books. As for a roaring recovery in the next five years, it's almost guaranteed. There's another tech boom gearing up, with tech firms already competing on fringe benefits. But of course, I wouldn't expect a reporter who "audits" the business press to have any inkling of that coming boom. ;)
#1 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 06:13 PM
The above person doesn't know what they are talking about. Alexandra's story is one of many millions of unemployed Americans. Yes, we had savings, but they were depleted when unemployment insurance benefits ran out -- unemployment benefits that, for some, aren't even close to 50% of what they earned while employed.
Try paying your rent, gas & electric, telephone, food, household supplies (toilet paper, toothpaste, soap, light bulbs) medical bills, medication, and transportation to an interview -- if you are lucky enough to get one -- with a minus income. If you're over 40 few will want to hire you. If you had an executive position a fast food joint or chain pharmacy wonders why you want to work for minimum wage -- and won't hire you. I've had the president of a non-profit I interviewed with ask me why I'd work for "such a low salary". I've had a manager at a juice bar tell me he had already had numerous college grads (hint: "you're too old") apply for the position posted on the help wanted sign in the window. I've had a florist in my neighborhood tell me I was too old to sweep his shop: "You might fall and injure yourself." The chips are stacked against us.
#2 Posted by YvonneNYC, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 09:10 PM
Yvonne, unemployment insurance benefits are not savings. It is ridiculous to suggest that 50% is a low number, if anything that's probably far too high for most. I know people who live on $500/month in a big city, many of the unemployed just don't want to cut back on their former lifestyle. I don't doubt that it is hard for many people right now, but more often than not that's the result of their mistakes and lack of savings. Suppose that Jarrin had saved that $100k instead and lived off of it when she lost her job: if she had cut her expenses down to a reasonable $1.5k/month, she could have lived off of it for 6 years. She was making $70k/year, you're telling me she couldn't have saved anywhere close to that? Give me a break. I already agreed that many interviewers hire stupidly at best, but you can't control that part. What the unemployed could have controlled was their savings and they often clearly didn't bother.
#3 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 09:48 PM
Are you serious? We're supposed to feel sorry for this woman? For real?
She sucks up all the welfare she can in unemployment benefits and then moves to Vermont for the expressed purpose of sucking up more welfare... And once she gets there, instead of beating the streets looking for work, she spends her work energy organizing a letter writing campaign to beg for even more welfare money...
This lazy lady isn't interested in working. If she were, she'd have driven to North Dakota (where the jobs are) instead of Vermont (where the welfare is).
There are jobs out there, people. This woman can't seriously expect anyone to believe that she can't find a job as a waitress, a babysitter or a dishwasher. The jobs that are out there are crappy jobs, but bad jobs at bad wages are better than no jobs at all. Unless you mooch off others and get them to pay for your motel room, that is.
#4 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 10:01 PM
What some of you don't realize is that unemployment is non-partisan. And, Alex has been unemployed since 2008. How many people have savings to last them three years? Not many. And, depending on the state, you may or may not have UI for 99 weeks and the amount by funds varies considerably. Nobody should make assumptions about anyone else's savings ability or how or what they do with it. You just don't know all the facts and circumstances. I would never assume it was a failing of their character, ability or lack of trying. I know her personally and can tell you she is bright, determined and capable as are many thousands of others in her shoes. She is a creative problem solver, but sometimes you just can't do it all yourself. She has a variety of health issues, too, and she has limited herself geographically to Vermont, her home state, because she is eligible for free healthcare. Be kind... and don't assume anything. It's usually not warranted and in this case, NOT.
#5 Posted by PaminKC, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 10:15 PM
Alex is FROM Vermont. It is her home state. She didn't move there for welfare. It is home. She has been job hunting and interviewing continuously. You know nothing of which you speak. It's all surmise and mean-spirited. Show some compassion. I wouldn't wish unemployment on my worst enemy and you act like she is just doing this for kicks. She is anxious, depressed, barely has food, doesn't know where she will sleep next and you find this ... amusing? "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." -- Benjamin Franklin
#6 Posted by PaminKC, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 10:27 PM
Vermont isn't doing to bad for jobs either Padi.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38838429/ns/business-us_business/t/states-ridiculously-low-unemployment/
And yeah, that 92,000 undischargeable debt is a killer. One good policy to push for the time being is the ability to declare bankruptcy on student debt if you're long term unemployed. Me? I'd treat all debt the same and I could even get behind a 5 year window after graduation before considering debt forgiveness, but man never forgiving student debt? Even while destitute? Even while the economy is in the pits as a result of conservatives?
Give people a debt holiday. Let them declare bankruptcy. If the debt is going to force them on to social programs (because minimum wage won't support payments on a $92,000 debt), then the cost of forgiving the debt won't alter the cost of supporting the individual. So why be sadist about it?
#7 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 10:29 PM
Ryan wrote: "[I]t would cost about $30 billion annually to put a million people to work cleaning parks, painting roofs, or tutoring kids at $30,000 a year."
padikiller responds: No it wouldn't. Not in the private sector. Not in a healthy free market economy. Putting people to work MAKES MONEY. For employers. For workers. For the government.
Only in the commie/liberal/government mindset do employees cost money.
Screwy liberals think the solution to any economic problem lies in doling out somebody else's money to pay people to do things that don't need to be done.
Liberalism in a nutshell "Taking money from productive people and using it to let unproductive people by Ho Ho's and Lap bands".
#8 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 10:37 PM
I came home to Vermont first of all. I lived here for years, raised a family here in VT, that was an error on the part of the reporter not to make that clear. Second of all, I dont know where you work but unemployment insurance is paid on your behalf in case you are unemployed and in some states employees and employers split the cost. That was my money to collect! In my life time there is a lot more money that has been paid in my name that I didnt collect as well as both my parents who both never collected either unemployment ins or their social security they paid in all their working lives. So when you get your SS check or whatever or you unemployment check when ever that comes, just give a little thanks to my parents because you just might be collecting money they was intended for them when it was paid in.
#9 Posted by Alexandra, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 11:12 PM
Pam, unemployment may be non-partisan, but by repeatedly making her case in the media and lobbying for more govt benefits, Jarrin chose to enter the political fray. As I already pointed out, she chose to spend that money on a college degree that she admits in hindsight is worthless. If that money had been saved instead, I showed she could still be living off of it today. UI benefits for two years is already a ridiculous length, studies have shown that people don't take jobs because they have those UI benefits for far too long. Nobody made an assumption about her savings "ability," I clearly said we don't have all the information, but only because it would likely make most of the unemployed look bad and the journalists don't want to show the real issues here. Who said the unemployed were "amusing?" You're just making up stuff now. I have no problem with people helping her out or private charity, the problem comes about when a gun is put to taxpayers' heads and they are forced to "give" their money for more UI benefits.
Thimbo, if you let more students default, that means higher costs for new students, as the teachers have to make up that money elsewhere. It also means the lenders, who could be random families from all over the US, are now out of that money and will have to take a loss on their savings. The only sadism here is from people like you, who would favor one group at the expense of another.
#10 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 11:24 PM
Alexandra, I don't think you understand how insurance works. Everybody pays a small amount into an insurance pool and only those who actually need it get paid out. That means most won't ever see the money back out, that's by design. It's not a pension or savings, where you put in more money and then you get paid out the same amount with interest decades later. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, with some people wrongly assuming that UI means they don't have to save. What other money has been paid "in your name" that you didn't collect?
Perhaps you can set us straight on some basic issues here, that the multiple articles should have laid out. What were your savings when you were laid off? How much were you spending per month since then and what fraction was paid for by UI vs savings? Those are the critical questions that are unanswered in the various writeups. Whatever your answers, the point remains that many of the unemployed didn't do a very good job of saving and then cutting back.
#11 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Mon 1 Aug 2011 at 11:39 PM
Some of these people are just downright mean, and if they had to go through what the 14 million plus since 2008 has gone through, they would'nt have lasted six months. Most of us who have gone through the turmoil of the Great Recession are well educated and professional people and happened to be working in the wrong place at the wrong time, such as myself in a bank no less. You keep strong Alexandria!!! God Bless all of us!!!
#12 Posted by brit, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:04 AM
I don't know in what state someone can live off of $500 a month. Not in New York City -- unless you share a one bedroom apartment with 3 or more people. I've lived in the same studio apartment for 42 years and the rent is $977 a month (it was $142 when I moved in). I've sent out over 1,000 resumes since I was laid off, for every imaginable job. As I wrote, few will hire people who are over 40 years old. I've only managed to survive by finding short-term part time work, in one case traveling two hours a day to get there and back. Some days I was sent home after 3 hours of work. It was a two-month project. In another case the man who hired me stiffed me for my time. I wish all of you the same fate we've experienced. Then you'll see how "easy" it is to survive without a job.
#13 Posted by YvonneNYC, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:07 AM
Yvonne, correct, not in NYC but here in Phoenix, you can rent out a room easily for $350/month or less. Use public transportation and eat cheaply and $500/month is certainly doable, I know people doing it. I am not denying that it's tough out there, and I have gone through such problems myself. But once you start arguing for more taxpayer assistance, that's where the unemployed go too far, that's all.
#14 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:20 AM
Better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. How easy it is to be smug; to tell *others* how they should have lived their lives; to be able to leave this page feeling superior to the *millions* of Americans who worked, paid taxes, and did exactly what they were taught to do by your parents and mine: go after a small piece of the so-called American Dream by staying in school, going to college, and living a good life.. only to have the rug pulled out from under them by greedy corporations and lazy politicians. How small-minded and petty it is to kick a person when they are down. If you personally know of a job, POST IT rather than to throw rocks at others and make insulting, condescending remarks to people who have lost everything. Be a human being and show some compassion or share some useful information. If you can't do that, resist the urge to show how ugly *some* Americans truly can be.
#15 Posted by Lee, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:31 AM
Well said Lee! Thank you for your post!
#16 Posted by brit, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:42 AM
Lee, thank you for removing our doubt with your comment. ;) How did you have the rug pulled out from under you by someone else? You mean to say your decisions weren't the primary factor in your life? There are very few people for whom that is the case, but it does happen. I'm certainly not kicking anybody while they're down, just by pointing out that they already got plenty of govt assistance and shouldn't demand more. I contend that the only people being ugly here are the unemployed, who have often received plenty of help, after making bad decisions that made their situation worse, yet somehow feel entitled to demand more from politicians who simply take it from taxpayers.
#17 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:48 AM
As a guy who's been here a bit, I can tell you padi and Ajay share a brain cell and that's the limit of their generosity.
But at any rate:
"studies have shown that people don't take jobs because they have those UI benefits for far too long"
List those studies. From what I've read it's employers who won't take people who are unemployed, not the unemployed who are living far too well on the dole.
Therefore, if you change the UI, you won't change the root problem which is that the unemployment rate has doubled because of conservatives.
And that a swath of near elderly have been cleared out of their savings (investments) and assets because of conservatives. And that the government is going to cut their guaranteed benefits just as they've lost their other accumulated wealth, private pensions, private health care, perceived employability because of conservatives.
Is it any wonder that conservatives want to shift the blame back to the victims? They've never been really good at this personal responsibility thing, you know.
#18 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 01:00 AM
Yvonne, I'm sorry to hear of your travails, but openly jealous of your apartment - $977 for a NYC studio is a steal. It sounds like you've been the beneficiary of subsidized housing for the last 4 decades. I do hope you've taken advantage of your good fortune to beef up your savings?
#19 Posted by JLD, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 01:11 AM
Thimbo, there's nothing generous about demanding other people's money, in the form of more UI benefits. As usual, everybody else has to educate you on the most basic issues. The graph from this NYT post and article was widely circulated last year. Right, you claim everything is the fault of the conservatives, but they're not good at personal responsibility, got it. Do you even read the crap you write? Let me guess, you don't really understand what the crap you wrote means, just like everything else you try to read. :)
#20 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 01:11 AM
Maybe if the US was Denmark, with the same generous benefits, health care, free university education, welfare, etc then maybe you'd have a point.
But Denmark isn't the US.
http://www.google.co.jp/publicdata/explore?ds=z8o7pt6rd5uqa6_&ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate#ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:sa&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country_group&idim=country:dk&ifdim=country_group&hl=en&dl=en
The US wishes it were Denmark.
http://www.google.co.jp/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate#ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:S&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=state&ifdim=state&tdim=true&hl=en&dl=en
Your case for how more generosity leads to more unemployed is not supported. Denmark is way WAY more generous and has less unemployed. Maybe Denmark is too generous, but if so, the US is no where near making the claim that it is similar.
In the US the problem is the unemployment rate doubling leaving to many workers for too few jobs, jobs which employers don't require when demand is down.
And yes, it's because of going on 40 years straight of conservative ideology in practice.
#21 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 01:32 AM
I don't know why anyone is feeding the obvious troll named Ajay, but like all good abusers, he/she just can't shut up because it makes them feel superior to put others down.
For the record, and as stated in the article, the $92,000 spent for school were student loans and were not spent out of Alex's pocket, so there was no possible way for her to save that money! If some folks don't understand the difference between loans that have to be repaid and savings, there's really not much you can do to teach them.
As they say, "Until you walk a mile in my shoes..."; well I've walked that mile with Alex, although not as long since I lost my job the first week of 2009. This is the 8th month without my piddling little amount of unemployment and my 5th month without money of my own, so I too have to rely on friends and strangers to pay for my every need. Do you have any idea how crappy that makes someone feel? Do you think we chose this path for our lives? Or that we don’t want to work because living on government money is so much better? That is not only insulting, it’s disrespectful and you should be ashamed of yourself! Those of us who would have never told our life stories, complete with the intimate details that voyeurs like you thrive on for your daily thrills, now do so because we have to, and because it’s the only way for people to understand what our country is truly doing to them.
You want the intimate details of my life? I made around $50,000-$55,000 per year, had started a decent savings account and was contributing the maximum amount that my former employer matched to my 401k. I was forced by a family member into buying a house that I didn’t want just as the housing bubble was popping. That family member reneged on their deal to pay for half of all the housing costs, drained my bank account, then accused me of abuse six months after I lost my job and moved in with my brother. That piddling little amount of unemployment was about 1/4 of what I used to bring home every month, but it paid for every single one of my bills except the predatory mortgage. That was paid for with my severance pay and 401k money for 9 months until it ran out. So now I’m in foreclosure with a bank that can’t prove that they own my loan, but want the court to give them the right to evict me anyway. I’m trapped in this house that I didn’t want because I would be homeless without it! As a single person with no dependents, there is no help for me beyond food stamps.
So do I want the government to give me money? Hell yes I do! Congress willfully closed their eyes to what Wall Street was doing, which makes them just as responsible for the results that put so many millions of us in this position. There are no jobs to be had for someone who has been out of work as long as we have and at our age. What we hear is that our government doesn't care if we live or die, then we have to put up with insecure pinheads standing on their soap boxes preaching their gospel of hatred with their holier than thou attitudes when they should really be down on their knees praying it doesn’t happen to them!
#22 Posted by tb in IL, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 01:36 AM
Let's look at some facts. The "officials" claim there is one job for every four or five seekers. They do a derivatives-based estimate on people who exhausted unemployment compensation but are still seeking work - and we all trust derivatives, right? The figures don't include part-time or underemployed workers. Bottom line: There an insufficient number of jobs for everyone to get one.
Employer's refrain from hiring an over qualified person to avoid future turn-over costs. They know full well that as (if) the economy improves, a rational professional will do as a rational business does and exploit opportunity. Employers also refrain from inviting non-local people in for interviews. They would prefer to avoid relocation cost and time requirements except in cases of highly specialized positions due to the vast number of local applicants.
From a job-seeker's perspective, with the national U3 unemployment rate at 9.2%, rampant (sometimes blatant) age discrimination, cost of living differences, employment credit requirements and housing values, it is irresponsible to move to a different state without a job. Where would you move? How will a short-sale reflect on your credit report? How will a credit disruption affect your ability to get the imagined job? Where will you live - who will even rent to an unemployed person with no income?
Downsizing life styles is easy to say but not as easy to do. Even financially prudent consumers and qualified professionals have mortgages that need to be paid off upon sale. If the unemployed family set up housing based on 50% of what they could reasonably afford, with no income and long-term unemployment, savings goes quickly. Selling a house for enough to pay off the mortgage and maintain credit isn't always possible. Even if it is, where would they live after that?
Education was and is still promoted as leverage against unemployment. Anyone can feel that they wasted the money and time when it fails. Indeed, under-educated job seekers are disqualified for many jobs they can and have done as a screening for recruiters. A basic undergraduate degree is only sufficient with precise department, role and industry experience, providing the job seeker volunteers to work for the employer's target salary range - most often omitted from the employment advertisement. However, past salary can exclude further consideration as discussed by other commenters. Excess education can make the candidate more attractive but also requires precise experience demands, a low salary history and a good guess at the employer's target salary.
To the people working harder for less spending power, getting $300 a week for not working can look attractive. As job stress increases due to employees being expected to do the work of two or three people, free time evaporates, medical co-pays increase and the cost of necessities increases, resentment builds against anyone collecting government money. People working under these conditions subconsciously want to find valid reasons for the unemployed being responsible for their own unemployment because deep down inside, they fear losing their own jobs. As long as they can keep pretending the long-term unemployed are somehow deficient, they can rest easy expecting to find work quickly if they should be suddenly unemployed. No one wants to feel vulnerable. As long as they have the right contacts, say the right things to the right people and maintain quality work, they feel immune to long-term hardship. Maybe it is true ... or maybe not. The uncertainty keeps everyone on edge.
But that is the plan. Pitting potential unemployed people still working against currently unemployed people is the fuel that burns everyone except the very rich. Instead of looking at the underlying problem - unemployment, we fight over who gets what crumbs and how many. Instead of correcting the cause of unemployment - decades of legislation p
#23 Posted by Voice of Reason, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 01:53 AM
Let's look at some facts. The "officials" claim there is one job for every four or five seekers. They do a derivatives-based estimate on people who exhausted unemployment compensation but are still seeking work - and we all trust derivatives, right? The figures don't include part-time or underemployed workers. Bottom line: There an insufficient number of jobs for everyone to get one.
Employer's refrain from hiring an over qualified person to avoid future turn-over costs. They know full well that as (if) the economy improves, a rational professional will do as a rational business does and exploit opportunity. Employers also refrain from inviting non-local people in for interviews. They would prefer to avoid relocation cost and time requirements except in cases of highly specialized positions due to the vast number of local applicants.
From a job-seeker's perspective, with the national U3 unemployment rate at 9.2%, rampant (sometimes blatant) age discrimination, cost of living differences, employment credit requirements and housing values, it is irresponsible to move to a different state without a job. Downsizing life styles is easy to say but not as easy to do. Even financially prudent qualified professionals have mortgages that need to be paid off upon sale. Selling a house for enough to pay off the mortgage and maintain credit isn't always possible. Even if it is, where would they live after that?
Education was and is still promoted as leverage against unemployment. Indeed, under-educated job seekers are disqualified for many jobs they can and have done as a screening for recruiters. An undergraduate degree is only sufficient with precise department, role and industry experience, providing the job seeker volunteers to work for the employer's target salary range - most often omitted from employment advertisements. Past salary can exclude further consideration as discussed in other comments. Excess education can make the candidate more attractive but employers may resist paying a higher salary and fear turn over.
To the people working harder for less spending power, getting $300 a week for not working can look attractive. As job stress increases due to employees being expected to do the work of two or three people, free time evaporates, medical co-pays increase and the cost of necessities increases, resentment builds against anyone collecting government money. People working under these conditions subconsciously want to find valid reasons for the unemployed being responsible for their own unemployment because deep down inside, they fear losing their own jobs. As long as they can keep pretending the long-term unemployed are somehow deficient, they can rest easy expecting to find work quickly if they should be suddenly unemployed. No one wants to feel vulnerable. As long as they have the right contacts, say the right things to the right people and maintain quality work, they feel immune to long-term hardship. Maybe it is true ... or maybe not. The uncertainty keeps everyone on edge.
But that is the plan. Pitting potential unemployed people still working against currently unemployed people is the fuel that burns everyone except the very rich. Instead of looking at the underlying problem - unemployment, we fight over who gets what crumbs and how many. Instead of correcting the cause of unemployment - decades of legislation providing corporate welfare, tax loop holes and "get out of jail free" cards to those who can afford to purchase government favors - we squabble over nickels and dimes; like drones obeying self-destruct orders. Instead of eliminating the primary expense of war, occupation and foreign bribes, we have been guided by fear of the terrorism US action has ignited.
By staying divided, we all lose.
#24 Posted by Voice of Reason, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:04 AM
Thimbo, who said anything about more welfare leading to more unemployment? While that is true, I love how I showed you were wrong about UI, so you just change the subject to something else. :) It is precisely because of 40 years of liberalizing markets that the US is much richer than Denmark, with their production per person stuck at the level of poor US states like Kentucky and Idaho. Of course, you are completely ignorant of the world you live in, so this is all news to you. XD
tb, the only trollish behavior I see is you calling others trolls, apparently without even understanding what the term means. I suggest it is you that luxuriates in playing the victim, not me trying to "abuse" anyone. OK, the college was paid for with a loan but that's still money down the drain, and what I wrote earlier was she still could have saved something close to that off of a $70k salary, similar to how you had some savings. If you don't understand when someone says the money could have been saved, pretty funny that you then accuse me of getting it wrong. :)
I am not saying anything about you, I don't know you. I am talking about statistics and the general case, which you may exemplify or may not. Are you saying you didn't make the choices that led to this path? Are you saying that there aren't people who would rather live off government money, that such people don't exist? Nobody cares about your life stories and certainly nobody has asked for intimate details. If you think anybody "thrills" off of knowing how much money you saved and spent, you clearly don't know shit about how people think. Most people honestly don't give a shit what she did or spent, the very fact that I'm asking indicates that I'm trying to understand what went wrong in her case. Right, cuz it's the "country's" fault that you don't have a job.
#25 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:19 AM
Instead of correcting the cause of unemployment - decades of legislation providing corporate welfare, tax loop holes and "get out of jail free" cards to those who can afford to purchase government favors - we squabble over nickels and dimes; like drones obeying self-destruct orders. Instead of eliminating the primary expense of war, occupation and foreign bribes, we have been guided by fear of the terrorism US action has ignited.
By staying divided, we all lose.
#26 Posted by Voice of Reason, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:21 AM
While you also give your salary, you don't state the other relevant info that I asked Alex for, ie how much were your savings and how much were you spending. These are dry, mechanical details that nobody could possibly "thrill" from, they're merely punched into a calculator to see if they make sense. How does a family member "force" you to buy a house? You do realize that your story sounds crazy and made-up to everybody else, right? When you start making weird accusations like someone forcing you to buy a house and then accusing you falsely of abuse, rightly or wrongly, people suspect you of making stuff up, because we know others who have made up such fantastic stories. I'm not saying everything you just said isn't true, just pointing out that that's the impression someone from the outside will most likely have. Whatever you have gone through, I'm sorry it happened, but blaming the rest of us who had nothing to do with it just makes you look childish.
Congress "closed their eyes to Wall Street?" What does that have to do with you and your situation? Sounds like you just want to blame somebody else for your problems. Nobody owes you a job or a living, if you think that's hatred, I think you're an entitled jackass. As I said before, it has happened to me. I know what the unemployed are going through, because I've been there. How do you think I know how dumb most companies are in their hiring practices? But turning that around on those who have jobs and demanding their money accomplishes nothing. I'm one of the few people who will actually tell you that in a public forum. Most will simply ignore you and vote to cut your benefits, because they don't want someone like you getting more of their money.
#27 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:31 AM
To Alexandra, tb, and Yvonne, I am so, so sorry for your troubles. I was there myself back in '89 and '90. It is unconscionable that our great country will do nothing about your situation. We are in the grip of these morally depraved, mean-spirited rightwing ideologues and the feckless, vacuous press in Washington who enable them. We need more like Mr. Chittum, or Mr. Chittum needs a bigger platform.
But meanwhile, Alexandra, are there no shelters, even a church, that might give you shelter and a part time job to help you get on your feet? Often a food bank or the Salvation Army, or Catholic Charities can help you with food and shelter. Please don't despair. Perhaps Bernie Sanders or a local politician or a church can provide you with an office position to help you. Perhaps one of your friends or neighbors might contact their local representatives to do something about your situation? They could forward your story and insist that you get some temporary help. That is what constituent services is. Or maybe a local church? Or try the Red Cross?
I am praying for your well-being. Please know that people do care about you. I care.
#28 Posted by James, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:54 AM
Repeat after me ~ I will not feed the trolls, I will not feed the trolls, I will not feed the trolls...
#29 Posted by Cathie, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 08:09 AM
Yes, these awful rightwing trolls above have a kind of terrible mental illness that feeds off the seething rage and anger that Fox and other rightwing media exploit for political purposes. I think it is a kind of clinical depression that one sees in life's losers and the uneducated.
This type of depression is highly treatable and can be remarkably successful, providing one can persuade the afflicted person to seek treatment. The problem is, these losers are a profitable enterprise for the right wing and they are addicted to their anger, and it is difficult to persuade their poor, addled brains that one doesn't need to be filled with such rage constantly. They would feel much better if they let it go.
#30 Posted by James, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 09:18 AM
Alexandra(?) wrote: "That was my money to collect! "
padikiller responds: And there you have it!.. Entitlement mentality, illustrated. What's ours is theirs, according to this person.
These lazy people aren't interested in getting a job... They just want to soak up welfare payments instead of working.
Well... Time to toll the Reality Bell once again!
According to Vermont's "Job Link" site there currently are more than 540 jobs open within 25 miles of Burlington, VT.
https://www.vermontjoblink.com/ada/
But of course Alexandra isn't really interested in getting a job... She just wants other peoples' money. She would rather spend her time and money mailing out letters begging for welfare than mailing out resumes or knocking on doors looking for a damned job. As long as she can keep the car somebody else is paying for, sleep in a motel room somebody else is paying for, eat food that somebody else is paying for and get medical care that somebody else is paying for, she's not about to get her hands dirty.
If this woman had to choose between hunger and work, there is no doubt that she would find one of those 500 jobs and actually do so damned work instead of whining from her subsidized soapbox.
Returning to the entitlement mentality, as an employer, I can attest to the fact that the person claiming to be Alexandra is wrong... Employers pay for most unemployment benefits while taxpayers pay the rest.
The sooner we stop paying nonproductive leeches to sit on their asses or to waste time lobbying for more welfare, the better.
#31 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 10:07 AM
Good post, Ryan. Sad about all the assholes here, but they do teach patience and reveal themselves admirably.
I suggest more on this: "Jarrin’s health has deteriorated to the point that she may be able to get disability soon."
This is the real future for most of your 50-y-o former "middle class" people. I'm close enough to that age--and in a sorry enough field--to be concerned. It's not a pretty future, and it is a huge waste of people to hang that "disabled" sign on them for the rest of their lives. It could happen to any of us (except, of course, plucky John Galt types who live fully according to their own productive capacity).
As for me, I been unemployed, twice. Nine months once, and a year the second time. Got through it by living low--never made enough to have "savings" but I did learn how to not buy a car on credit (so it can't be repossessed) and not get into a rent or a mortgage that was bigger than I could pay out of UE or under-the-table hustling. That used to be possible, before the mid 2000s explosion of "wealth creation" we remember fondly as the "housing boom." And it will be possible again in the mid teens.
Frugality like that, however, reads too much like modesty in the business world. It doesn't make for much enjoyment and, as my career illustrates, it's not a path to recommend to young grads or blog readers.
#32 Posted by Edward Ericson Jr., CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:37 PM
I really must object, Edward:
#31 Posted by padikiller on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 10:07 AM
Good post, Ryan. Sad about all the assholes here, but they do teach patience and reveal themselves admirably. [Edward].
If you are making a suggestion, even if what you say is dead-on accurate, I hold it to be impolitic of you to put it so bluntly.
Even an asshole has rights.
#33 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 12:59 PM
Never been too "politic," Clayton, & don't expect to become so.
#34 Posted by Edward Ericson Jr., CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:01 PM
There are jobs out there. I posted a link to more than 500 jobs open right now within 25 miles of Burlington, Vermont.
This is just the R E A L I T Y.
The other sad R E A L I T Y is that the whiny, lazy slugs like Alexandra don't want jobs - they want "positions" (like the "Director of Client Whatever"). They will exhaust every bit of welfare and charity they can mooch before these useless slobs will actually do any manual labor.
Well there aren't any good jobs out there. Only bad jobs with bad pay.
But bad jobs at bad wages are better than no jobs at all!
Why can't you people just accept this little truism?
#35 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:19 PM
Most of these figures come from the CIA world fact book, the census, and the Bureau of Economic Analysis
Kentucky 4.3 million
Denmark 5 million
Kentucky 65 035 km
Denmark 43,094 km
Kentucky 9.8% unemployment
Denmark 4.2% unemployment
Kentucky GINI index .464
Denmark GINI index .29
Kentucky GDP 145 billion
Denmark GDP 310.8 billion
Denmark GDP per capita approximately twice of Kentucky based on multiple sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_per_capita_GDP_(nominal)
and simple fricken math.
*shakes head*
Anyways, let's talk about what is wrong with the current politics. 2:29 in this Tony Benn interview is relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2h0o3uZ-8
7:06 is concerned with unemployment.
#36 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:32 PM
Thimbles fudges the numbers, as usual...
Denmark's unemployment rate has nearly doubled in last couple of years. It was 7.2 % last month, as a matter of fact.
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z8o7pt6rd5uqa6_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=country:dk&fdim_y=seasonality:sa&dl=en&hl=en&q=denmark+unemployment
The economic downturn has forced Denmark to cut its unemployment benefits in half. The Socialist Gravy Train is derailing in Copenhagen too... Just a little later than elsewhere, given the relatively pro-business environment in Denmark compared to its commie EU sister countries.
But if you must dole money out of the treasury to people who aren't working - doing it the way Denmark does makes sense. Benefit recipients must take jobs anywhere the government sends them AND private companies in Denmark can fire anyone anytime at will.
Go on unemployment in Denmark and you risk getting sent off to work the night shift at the crappiest job in town. If you don't report, you lose your benefits. If you screw up on the job, you lose your benefits (at least a good chunk of them). Now THIS is a policy that we should implement immediately.
#37 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:45 PM
This, 10 seconds in, is also profound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4
#38 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:47 PM
I wonder if Michael Moore is going to Cuba for his gastric bypass?
#39 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 02:59 PM
"Thimbles fudges the numbers, as usual..."
I didn't fudge anything. Those are the CIA numbers.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/da.html
Take issue with them.
And dude, you fudge your fricking name. Shut up a little, please.
#40 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 03:09 PM
Thimbo, my linked numbers show GDP PPP per capita, which is the only meaningful measure because it takes purchasing power into account. Once you do that, Denmark drops like a rock, which Wikipedia also acknowledges. You link to the nominal numbers, which are meaningless if you don't adjust for what you can actually buy with that money. So either you are ignorant of what PPP means, a good bet, or you know what it is and chose to lie with alternate stats, hoping to mislead others. Which is it, thimbo, you are either dumb or lying, pick one. Hilarious how a guy who always accuses others of not knowing stuff or lying is in fact the most guilty of both. XD
#41 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 03:36 PM
Kentucky's June 2011 unemployment rate is 9.6% and on a two year trend on the way down while Denmark's is 7.6% and on a two year trend on the way up.
Thimbles... It isn't really honest to compare a two year old estimate to a current value...
But if your point is that Danes are more productive than Kentuckians... I'm not arguing with you.
I'm just pointing out the Danes are being very proactive in cutting social benefits in the face of the economic problems brought on by their social spending.
They just cut their maximum unemployment benefit in half, as a matter of fact, even though their unemployment rate has skyrocketed.
See? Want to put people back to work? Stop paying them not to work!
It ain't rocket science. The Danes have it figured out.
#42 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 03:40 PM
"Thimbo, my linked numbers show GDP PPP per capita, which is the only meaningful measure because it takes purchasing power into account. Once you do that, Denmark drops like a rock, which Wikipedia also acknowledges. You link to the nominal numbers, which are meaningless if you don't adjust for what you can actually buy with that money. "
Oh, I see. So because Kentucky has bare bone services and consumes over expensive health care and over expensive University education, Denmark loses in your little contest because is has a more expensive Big Mac. *shrug*
Never mind the fact that income inequality is much higher which means the general welfare of the society is much lower and...
Oh it's not like you care anyways. The fact is your claim about overly generous UI leading to indolence is wrong as applied to the United States because the US doesn't have half the benefits of Denmark and yet it has a much higher unemployment rate.
"Kentucky's June 2011 unemployment rate is 9.6% and on a two year trend on the way down while Denmark's is 7.6% and on a two year trend on the way up."
OMG Obama's economic policies are working!!1!
You wait. Post debt deal, federal government cuts to desperate states, you'll see where the unemployment needle falls. I predict between 10-11% without a drastic change in policy.
Meanwhile, Europe has a different crisis or two going on. Their crisii are
a)that the European banks put a bunch of money in American markets before the crash
b) troubles on the periphery of the monetary union are starting to affect the center.
It's not socialism which is shaking the Europe economies, it's globalism. The shocks in America and around Europe have destabilized trust in the Euro Union. That and the fact that the responses to the shocks have been shaped by Germany and France's moderate responses to their union members' collapses.
But don't you worry. What's infected Europe is on its way here too:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/business/global/29austerity.html
#43 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 04:49 PM
Alexandra, best of luck.
I know what it's like to desperately hunt for work, to knock on every door, and to come home dispirited. I hope your search is successful.
I understand that people have different views on public policy. I don't understand people who take it on themselves to lecture those in dire straits. None of us get where we get to solely on our own efforts: our choices and actions are a part of it, but the behavior of many others, plus luck and (if you choose to believe this) providence play a big part too.
Maybe, while reading Ryan's report, your first instinct is to say "this could never happen to me, I'm smarter than that. Plus I'd never ask for help if it did come to that." In that case, I wish you luck as well.
#44 Posted by Andrew, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 04:53 PM
In my particular case, "under the table hustling" meant construction work. I worked on friends' homes & charged them $20 an hour for work that, had I been employed full time, I would have done gratis.
It was offered, so I took it. I painted and installed floors, made a staircase and, for a while, reconstructed historic homes. I also paid a helper $20 an hour on an independent contractor basis when I painted my own house.
Not quite Madoffian in scale or style but, point taken. I am truly a leach (in Reactionary Troll Land).
#45 Posted by Edward Ericson Jr., CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 06:17 PM
The irony is that someone with a name--Edward Ericson Jr.--is being trashed by a no-name troll with an exquisite "moral sensitivity"--but who would rather hide under a blanket in case someone finds out who is so coarse.
Your writing is dull and unreadable, "padikiller." Why not concentrate on producing something interesting. I do not find your resentment at all convincing. What do you have up your sleeve?
You smell like a liar.
#46 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 08:00 PM
Yeah...
You know you're scoring Reality Points when the "troll" label starts flying from the left.
Tell you what Clayton... If you can tell me the moral difference between stealing money from an unemployment program and stealing money from a group of investors, please do so...
#47 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 08:48 PM
I do not think that it is definitions we need to discuss. Why do you write in such an obnoxious way? Why are you so certain you are always right? Why are you so quick to apply the label?
You are suffering from a lack of empathy and insight. You have an obsessively closed mind.
However, I am tolerant. If you act like a human being, I will treat you like one.
#48 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 10:35 PM
My writing style is only "obnoxious" to those who disagree with me.
You claim to be "tolerant" and eschew "labels"... But the truth is that YOU are the only one here lobbing labels, Clayton.
Who's calling you a "troll" like you've labeled me?
The only one (between the two of us) here asking questions is me. The only one with an open mind is me.
As I wrote previously, if you can tell me the moral difference between stealing money from an unemployment program and stealing money from a group of investors, please do so...
I've got an open mind. I'm all ears.
How about you?
#49 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 10:55 PM
"Tell you what Clayton... If you can tell me the moral difference between stealing money from an unemployment program and stealing money from a group of investors, please do so..."
One has the luxury of not doing so and still living decently.
When you start confusing small time undeclared income for basic survival with big time fraudulently acquired income accumulated for basic greed, you fall down a few steps on the decent human being scale.
Furthermore, since when did you start caring about fraud? Not so long ago you excused a bank for gaming the system to take someone's house.
http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/propublica_catches_ally_financ.php
What, a bank can operate fraudulently and get your compassion and yet an unemployed person can't scrounge a few bucks undeclared? You really hate people.
#50 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 10:59 PM
Pudswiller is drawing dangerous conclusions. He works with lawyers, apparently; he should read the law.
#51 Posted by edward ericson jr., CJR on Tue 2 Aug 2011 at 11:22 PM
Again, if you were consistent about tax cheats, frauds, and a couple of bucks slipped to someone under the radar, I'd say "wow, that's harsh, but I understand the principle."
However, you excuse and ignore the frauds and shenanigans of rich. You reserve your judgement for the unemployed, the poor, the "Joe Dumbasses" of the world who are, in your mind, a disease responsible for all the world's problems.
Me? When a person has difficult choices between food/clothes/rent or honest accounting, I understand if he felt compelled to fudge the numbers a little. That doesn't mean I approve, that means I refuse to judge. People in difficult cirumstances make difficult choices.
On the other hand, when a banker/trader has the opportunity to make a decent living being honest or to make a indecent amount being dishonest and they choose to be dishonest, I don't see that choice as a "what could he do? Starve?" kind of choice.
Eric kept a few bucks undeclared. He didn't rob your house like a thief or a banker does. To me, those sins aren't equivalent, but I can see the point of someone who does. What I can't see is the point of someone who excuses the thieves and condemns the destitute.
The only point that person is making is that he hates people.
And my point is when a society forces good people to make difficult choices while supporting thievery and violence, that society is approaching spiritual death. Look it up.
#52 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 12:47 AM
"It is with such activity in mind that the words of the late John F. Kennedy come back to haunt us. Five years ago he said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." Increasingly, by choice or by accident, this is the role our nation has taken, the role of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments. I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin...we must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.
A true revolution of values will soon cause us to question the fairness and justice of many of our past and present policies. On the one hand, we are called to play the Good Samaritan on life's roadside, but that will be only an initial act. One day we must come to see that the whole Jericho Road must be transformed so that men and women will not be constantly beaten and robbed as they make their journey on life's highway. True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar. It comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring.
A true revolution of values will soon look uneasily on the glaring contrast of poverty and wealth. With righteous indignation, it will look across the seas and see individual capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa, and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries, and say, "This is not just." It will look at our alliance with the landed gentry of South America and say, "This is not just." The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just.
A true revolution of values will lay hand on the world order and say of war, "This way of settling differences is not just." This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation's homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into the veins of peoples normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice, and love. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death."
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm
Sorry for posting this commie/liberal hypocritical crap. Go back to your Ayn Rand, fascists.
#53 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 01:07 AM
if one consistently over tax fraud, fraud, and a couple of dollars have been postponed, someone under the radar, I would say "wow, that's tough, but I understand the principle."
But excuse me, and ignore the scams and swindles wealthy. You keep your opinion for the unemployed, the poor, "Joe dumbasses" the world that are in your mind, a disease responsible for all the world's problems.
Me? If a person renting difficult choices between food / clothing / or has an honest accounting, I understand if he was forced to fudge the numbers to feel a little bit. This does not mean I agree, that is, to judge, I refuse to. People make difficult decisions in difficult cirumstances.
On the other hand, if a banker / dealer the opportunity to make a decent living honestly, or an indecent amount has to make dishonest and they choose to be dishonest, I do not see this election as "what could he do? Starve?" kind of choice.
Eric was a few dollars moonlighting. He did not not your house like a thief or a bank robbery. For me, these sins are not equal, but the point of someone I can not see the. I can not see what is the point of someone who excuses the thieves, and condemns the destitute.
The only point where the person is, is that he hates humans.
And my point is, if a society is forcing good people to make tough decisions and to support theft and violence, is that the society is approaching spiritual death. Look at them.
Raspberry ketones | African Mango Extract
#54 Posted by jessiccarobertt, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 02:28 AM
Padi, your statements concerning me are false and defamatory. Please retract them.
#55 Posted by edward ericson jr., CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 09:00 AM
I've retracted them for him, Ed.
I'm not going to let an anonymous commenter accuse somebody using their real name of crimes on here, Padi.
#56 Posted by Ryan Chittum, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 10:05 AM
Perhaps this lady needs to go where the jobs are - Texas comes to mind - instead of where the social-welfare benefits are, like stagnant and aging (see Census data) Vermont.
My Asperger's Syndrome-afflicted son, who has little in the way of a work resume and a nice degree in a liberal-arts subject from a small college, has nevertheless been able to find a job of the sort Jarrin says she seeks in by-no-means-thriving Ohio - modest-paying ($10.50/hr) call-center/tech support work, with benefits, notably health care. It's not naive to ask, if him, why not her? Luck? An AS job applicant, just lucky?
I do acknowledge CJR's willingness to mention Jarrin's student-loan debts. The student-loan program exists to enrich the higher-education industry, which in turn strongly supports the Party which pushes for more student-loan money. Always bet in self-interest in politics.
Ordinary consumers read stories like this, which are meant to have a predicable Bernie Sanders-style political message - CJR is seldom subtle in its political mission - but they frequently backfire, because readers measure Jarrin's story against their own, and can identify some of the reasons Jarrin is in her situation. No larger social or policy message there.
#57 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 12:39 PM
"but philosophically, what we're talking about here is a respect for the property of others."
Except that we're not. You don't expect a kid to file a tax return on their lawn mowing duties because it's not a real job. He's not going to support himself on it, he's not making career plans around this service, he's collecting some pocket change in a undocumented oral transaction.
If Ed was living high on the hog based on this income derived from a permanent business servicing his house repair clients, then you'd have a point. But this was likely petty cash collected all too infrequently and too informally to realistically document. He got the occasional windfall gig and you're acting as if he robbed the US government of a non-trivial amount.
Ed was employed before this. He paid into the system. Ed stopped being employed for a time. He collected from the system. It's not stealing. You are acting very anguished over something very petty, especially when considering,
YOU EXCUSE BANKERS OF DIRECT FRAUD. And this fraud, enabled by the faulty private realty database known as MERS, robbed government and taxpayers of the fees they were owed every time property ownership changed hands:
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-yorks-us-bankruptcy-court-rules-merss-business-model-is-illegal-2011-2
"Here's MERS's business model in brief. Real estate property sales and mortgages are supposed to be recorded in local recording offices, with fees paid. With the rise of securitization, each mortgage might be sold a dozen times before it came to rest as the collateral behind a mortgage backed security (MBS), and each of those sales would need to be recorded. MERS was created to bypass public recording; it would be listed in the county records as the “mortgagee of record” and the “nominee” of the holder of mortgage. Members of MERS could then transfer the mortgage from one to another without all the trouble of changing the local records, simply by (voluntarily) recording transactions on MERS's registry."
YOU EXCUSE BANKERS OF FALSIFYING DOCUMENTS. You have repeatedly said "It's all Joe Dumass's fault. It's all the fault of those poor people who took out loans they couldn't possibly pay under terms they didn't understand. It's all the fault of the Community Reinvestment Act which forced bankers to make bad loans. Show me real fraud. I don't see any anywhere. All I see are dead beats taking my tax money."
The whole system was a fraud before the crash, a private sector fraud:
http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/03/only-lying-lenders-made-liars-loans.html
and you reserve your hissy fits for the unemployed and the poor who were often given false information on their loans by THEIR financial representatives on documents full of false information prepared by THEIR financial representatives and suddenly find their interests rates exploding just as they lose their jobs because of THEIR financial representatives' actions.
Of the demonic, you speak no evil. Of the tormented, you heap more upon more torment.
You suck padi.
#58 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 12:42 PM
I did not say I collected U.E at the same time I worked "under the table." Padikiller said that.
I did not say I stole anything from anyone, because I did not. Padi asserted that. He has also falsely characterized me as "a guy who cheats unemployment."
Accusing someone of criminal acts, without evidence, is very bad form in journalism. If Padi has any evidence that I am a criminal of any sort, let alone a thief, I invite him to present it. Otherwise, he should retract all the defamatory,false claims he has made.
As these false and defamatory claims have been made in a public forum in a way seemingly calculated to harm my reputation, I reserve my right to take legal action against padikiller within the time allowed by the relevant statutes of limitations.
#59 Posted by Edward Ericson Jr., CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 01:01 PM
"You can justify unemployment fraud anyway you want, Thimbles, but it won't make it right."
Are you accusing me of justifying unemployment fraud?
#60 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 01:36 PM
You know you're on the right track when the Czars of Approved Expression are tossing your rejoinders down the Orwellian memory hatch.
#61 Posted by Dan A., CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 02:23 PM
You've got that right...
Equating unemployment fraud with "Wall Street" fraud will get the censors moving fast around here.
#62 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 02:47 PM
Paidkiller and Dan Asshole. Get a job, you two (?). Unless you are being paid to post this crap. Cash under the table?
#63 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 03:07 PM
Clayton remonstrated: "Get a job.."
Too, too funny, in context.
Are you reading this, Alexandra? Good advice.
#64 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 03:51 PM
Person Killer: It is hard to imagine how someone could be so crude as to misread a story as you have. You are just an exceptionally crude person... killer.
CJR could set up a fund for Alexandra Jarrin. I'll contribute $50. You will contribute... nothing. In any sense.
#65 Posted by Clayton Burns, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 04:34 PM
For anyone who wants to chip in, here's the link:
http://alexandra99.chipin.com/housing-for-99er-alexandra-in-vt
#66 Posted by brit, CJR on Wed 3 Aug 2011 at 05:49 PM
I was thinking about this question the other day, why does government pick to pursue austerity and entitlement cuts when the majority of the public wants jobs, tax increases, and entitlement protection.
Then I remembered an old study:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/02/political_economy
"At left, we see that as people at the bottom of the income spectrum care more about an issue, the probability of action on that issue scarcely budges. At right we see that policy responds a little more to median preferences. But what's clear in both is that the rich are much more successful at getting their issues on the docket. That's not really that surprising, but why should it be the case? Mr Drum writes:
Gilens' guess is that "the most obvious source of influence over policy that distinguishes high-income Americans is money." This sounds like a pretty good guess to me....
Matt Yglesias offers a different view:
I would say the most obvious mechanism here is socialization. The president, the senior White House staff, the cabinet secretaries, the senators, the House members, the senior congressional staff, and the lobbyists, association heads, business executives, governors, mayors, foreign officials, and media celebrities who they interact with are all personally pretty high income...
[However] Legislators worried about the poor often have to cut deals to satisfy the rich people who support their campaigns and other critical institutions. Legislators worried about the rich basically never have to make these kinds of concessions. Money, by creating this asymmetry, gets what it wants much more often. As Mr Gilens notes, this is a feature of very nearly every political system in very nearly every historical era. What I would suggest is that it is therefore not a tremendous threat to democracy, except in cases when mobility levels across incomes fall dramatically. In that case, you create a permanent class of politically disenfranchised people. And that can be a very destabilizing thing."
So the political establishment responds to the concerns of the rich (which is why anyone hucking the commie/socialist epithet at these democrats is a joke) long before it gets to the poor because in a political system dependent on funding, connections, and organization the rich have the advantage. The poor have a numerical superiority but they do not have the institutional representation required to push an agenda that suits them.
In the past they did. The unions and poverty organizations such as ACORN did organize the poor and did wield institutional power for change that produced results..
That has collapsed:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-labor-union-decline
"Second, American politicians don't care much about voters with moderate incomes. Princeton political scientist Larry Bartels studied the voting behavior of US senators in the early '90s and discovered that they respond far more to the desires of high-income groups than to anyone else. By itself, that's not a surprise. He also found that Republicans don't respond at all to the desires of voters with modest incomes. Maybe that's not a surprise, either. But this should be: Bartels found that Democratic senators don't respond to the desires of these voters, either. At all...
How did we get here? In the past, after all, liberal politicians did make it their business to advocate for the working and middle classes, and they worked that advocacy through the Democratic Party. But they largely stopped doing this in the '70s, leaving the interests of corporations and the wealthy nearly unopposed. The story of how this happened is the key to understanding why the Obama era lasted less
#67 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 4 Aug 2011 at 12:24 PM
"Maybe that's not a surprise, either. But this should be: Bartels found that..." Democratic senators don't respond to the desires of these voters, either. At all...
How did we get here? In the past, after all, liberal politicians did make it their business to advocate for the working and middle classes, and they worked that advocacy through the Democratic Party. But they largely stopped doing this in the '70s, leaving the interests of corporations and the wealthy nearly unopposed. The story of how this happened is the key to understanding why the Obama era lasted less than two years."
There's got to be a better way to organize the poor and the unemployed than under a Koch brothers banner fighting for more tax cuts, worse health care, and less spending. Unfortunately, when you begin that task expect the right to pull out every stop to break you as they have ACORN and the unions.
Heck a little video series like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqZMTY4V7Ts
Might make you a a Glen Beck target:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/30/AR2010073003254.html
These guys are at war with the poor and anyone who threatens to organize them. Serfs should stay serfs.
Speaking of which, anyone paying attention to that FAA shutdown, union furlough thing going on?
#68 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 4 Aug 2011 at 12:39 PM
Of course nobody's paying attention to the FAA "shutdown"..
You have something like 70,000 highly paid, underproductive government workers laid off and there's not a damned bit of difference to the air travel industry because of it.
#69 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 4 Aug 2011 at 04:42 PM
I think this time around they may care a little bit more about the moderate income or no income voters. Fourteen million unemployed votes could make a nice dent in the 2012 elections to go one way or another. It doesn't take much as you can remember from the 2000 Presidential elections.
#70 Posted by brit, CJR on Fri 5 Aug 2011 at 07:04 PM
From Yves Smith, one has to go to Al'Jazerra to get some intropective reporting on the two Americas:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/aljazeera-on-income-disparity-in-the-us.html
The have-mores and the have-nots.
#71 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 7 Aug 2011 at 02:10 PM
Did anyone besides me take the time to watch a bit of the commie video Thimble's posted?
A couple of things...
1. The average weight of the protesters flooding Wall Street was about 275 lbs.
2. Nobody's shooting these guys as they waddle down to whine on Wall Street.
I wonder how such a protest might pan out in say... North Korea..
What if a bunch of starving North Koreans marched up to one of Kim Jong-Il's palaces and asked him to cash in some of that $4 billion he keeps in Luxembourg to pay for a couple of bags of potatoes? How do you think that would work out for them?
Or maybe if a few Cubans decided to petition Castro to sell one of his yachts to pay for some hamburger?
And you'd think that if al-Jazeera wanted to find some economic disparity, they might look a little closer to home - like maybe in Dubai, Kuwait or Saudi Arabia..
#72 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 7 Aug 2011 at 03:45 PM
Well, here is the tough truth. There ARE millions of people in this position. It used to take a month or two to find a job, and now it may take a year or two. There is a jobs issue - both finding jobs, or being underemployed. Fine.
But "Ms. Jarrin" has one - to fool good kind people out of their money. I know Alex/Alexandra/Sandy/etc (and she has more last names than I can count on one hand). I have known her for years. There is a reason her family and ex-friends have had their fill and and not helping her. She is not some poor soul with true medical problems who has applied for thousands of jobs (though her national campaign to be the poster child for the unemployed would make you think so.
She is not looking for work, is not applying for anything but 'top tier' jobs, and is falsifying her medical claims to try to get on permanent disability (which is why she moved to Vermont - medical coverage to pay for her game - not because she has family here - none that have anything to do with her any longer!!). I challenge someone to offer her a job - and sit back and wait for the wave of reasons why she can't take it (when the only real reasons are - I would rather love off the thousands of dollars in handouts I get each month & I am really quite lazy & it would ruin my chances of getting on disability)
Ladies & gentlemen of the press - please vet your article subjects. There are people who are genuinely in trouble out there, who don't have time to launch a nationwide campaign to bring in more 'donations' because they are LOOKING FOR WORK. This lady has taken a lot of people for a ride, and it really is time those who know what she is REALLY about (not those who met her as she cast her web of oh-woe-is-me) tell the truth. She is taking money out of the hands of good people, so she can continue with her lazy life or campaigning for permanent disability.
Her local paper did a story, and a follow up about all the people who came forward to help her - pay her motel bill, make her car payment. They posted her email and a web site where you could donate into a fund to pay her rent in a nicer place than the hotel. And once those who know her, the REAL her, posted some truths - the paper removed the comments. I guess better that your readership is ripped off my this con artist than you have to admit you did not check this woman's background before you encouraged people to pony up.
Sandy aka MS. JARRIN - have you no shame?
#73 Posted by S.M., CJR on Sun 7 Aug 2011 at 06:40 PM
"1. The average weight of the protesters flooding Wall Street was about 275 lbs."
An exaggeration but yeah, their is a poverty induced obesity problem.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/04/health/main20087921.shtml
"And you'd think that if al-Jazeera wanted to find some economic disparity, they might look a little closer to home - like maybe in Dubai, Kuwait or Saudi Arabia.."
What makes you think they don't report on that? A lot of the sentiment during the Arab spring came from al-Jazeera coverage of domestic corruption. North Kprea and Cuba too, eh? Misdirect much?
#74 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 7 Aug 2011 at 10:10 PM
"Obesity through Poverty"
Even Orwell couldn't have seen this one coming...
Liberalism, when it is reduced to a discussion of plain fact, is so patently absurd..
#75 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 8 Aug 2011 at 09:38 AM
It looks like Alexandra might be suffering from poverty-induced obesity.
http://www.reformer.com/localnews/ci_18598794
This lazy moocher won't take a part-time job (or two, or three of them) because it will stop her food stamps? Are you guys freaking serious?
She's only willing to accept high-paying, full-time employment in the booming metropolis of Brattleboro Vermont because she needs to mooch healthcare and food stamps?
Seriously, people?
#76 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 8 Aug 2011 at 09:55 AM