Howard Owens’s 5,200 word CJR riposte to David Simon on paywalls deserve a reply of its own (outside of its comments section, which at 126 and counting, you should take some time to read).
Owens’s ideas are something of an artifact—conventional wisdom from a few years ago that time and new information have disproved.
Let’s be clear: When it comes to paywalls, the question is settled.
There remain, apparently, a few anti-paywall tropes still making the rounds, and almost all of them show up in Owens’s post. There’s the “readers have never paid for news” baloney and its cousin, “Newspapers are in the ad business, not the news business.” The faulty assumption that readers never paid for news offline sets up the flawed conclusion that you can’t charge them online. The problem is (and it is a problem for the anti-paywall-istas), more and more newspapers are charging online and doing so successfully.
A central premise of the anti-paywall argument is that putting up a paywall means turning masses of readers away. But it’s just not so.
As I’ve written before, the people-won’t-pay stance is/was a core tenet of the digital-news gospel. I use that religious metaphor intentionally: the tenet has been disproven and yet adherents continue to cling to the old beliefs, seemingly unable to process new data that destroys old orthodoxies.
Owens clearly understands that paywalls aren’t all-or-nothing affairs anymore (with notable exceptions like The Times of London). But he writes as if putting up a paywall makes that a paper’s only source of revenue.
He doesn’t take on the main argument for having a paywall—the one reason that negates his whole post: You can put one up, collect new subscription revenue, support print circulation a bit, and, at the same time, keep advertising revenue declines to a minimum. Reading his post, you’d think the options are to either keep everybody out or to let everybody in. But, as well all know by now, there’s a third way, as The Wall Street Journal began showing half a decade ago: A leaky paywall preserves and boosts circulation revenue while allowing inbound links and Google searches from nonsubscribers that bring some ad revenue.
I’ll grant Owens that Simon’s brief post overstated the benefits and consequences of paywalls. The leaky paywall model won’t ensure that “the content of the larger papers is no longer available to aggregators,” for instance. But Owens isn’t just responding to Simon in particular, he’s making assertions about digital subscriptions in general.
Those need to be answered, so I’ll take on Owens’s ten points one by one:
1. “The New York Times is a poor model on which to judge the success of paid content.”
The New York Times is indeed an exceptional newspaper. But it’s still a newspaper. It faces the same collapsing business model facing the rest of the industry.
A metro daily differs from a small-town daily, which differs, from a business paper, which differs from a monthly glossy. But they’re all in the publishing business, some are more closely related than others, and one can learn from the other.
The excuses from the anti-paywall crowd trying to explain away paywalls are starting to wear thin. The Wall Street Journal has had a successful paywall for 15 years, but it was considered a “poor model” by team Digital CW because financial news has monetary value and because its subscribers were all charging their corporate accounts (the latter happened to be wrong, as Bill Grueskin made clear). Later, the Financial Times’s paywall success was written off for the same reasons. Cook’s Illustrated’s niche was supposedly “freedom from ads.” The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette’s paywall’s success in preserving print circulation (flat over the last 10 years) was due to its “virtual (monopoly) over news in their region.” Now the NYT’s massive success is, variously, either because its readers view it as a charity case or because it’s a paper with “key advantages” like its size and reach. But between all these various papers, it’s clear that something’s working.
Owens also says that by Simon’s standard, “the Times paywall is an abject failure” because it can’t support the newsroom by itself:
The Times has a newsroom budget of $200 million annually. The most optimistic estimate I could find for its paywall revenue is $100 million.
But that’s unfair. Nobody, much less Simon in his CJR piece three years ago, thinks paywalls alone should or could support a newsroom. They’re an additional revenue stream, and Simon explicitly said that in his piece.
Here are some better numbers for Owens: Now that it charges online, The New York Times’s digital revenue more than covers the cost of its newsroom. Digital subscriptions, by my calculations (the NYT doesn’t break these numbers out), already bring in more than $70 million a year, and digital ads are at roughly $155 million (conservatively). That’s at least $225 million a year in digital revenue—and the subscription stream is new and still growing fast, while digital ads are now edging down (though not, apparently, because of the paywall).
2. “Simon’s math doesn’t make sense.”
But Owens uses some wild numbers himself:
A metro newsroom—the newsroom Simon is most concerned about protecting—needs between $50 million and $100 million to provide the kind of big, serious journalism Simon advocates. At $10 a month per subscription (Simon’s figure), the news site would need 416,000 subscribers to cover a $50 million editorial budget.
It’s unclear where Owens comes up with those giant numbers for a metro newsroom. Nobody thinks the Sun will ever have 500 people again (and it’s at least worth noting that the BLS says the average reporter’s salary in Baltimore is $49,000 a year). Owens estimates that its newsroom in 2009 cost between $10 million and $15 million. It’s hard to tell how much digital advertising the Sun brings in, but its site is similar in size to the Times-Picayune’s, which reportedly took in about $6 million in digital ads last year, meaning it would need $4 million to $9 million a year to bring digital revenue up to the level of 2009 newsroom costs.
The Sun newsroom now has just 132 staffers, 48 of whom are reporters or editors in the core metro news area (not including sports and entertainment). That means the $3.6 million a year Owens dismissed could actually pay for increasing the news staff by more than a third (at $80,000 a head, all in), which would make the paper more essential and its subscriptions and ads easier to sell.
As it is, The Sun already has a leaky paywall, put up in October. It took in 11,127 subscribers through March. Those subscriptions cost a minimum of 99 cents a week for print subscribers and $3.99 a week for all-digital. If we conservatively estimate that one-quarter are digital-only subs, that would be a new annual revenue stream of more than a million dollars. And it looks like it’s giving up little or no ad revenue now. After sinking 15 percent or so in the paywall’s first few months, unique visitors have since returned to last year’s level and were down 0.22 percent in April from a year ago, according to Compete (I’ve got questions out to The Sun on these numbers and will update if I hear back).
That million dollars a year is not enough to do much, of course. But it’s better than nothing, and it’s a growing revenue stream—a new source of real incremental revenue that struggling papers can’t leave on the table.
3. “Even if a paywall alone can’t support big-time metro journalism, the early returns show no signs of slowing the bleed out.”
This just isn’t true, and Owens cherry picks some numbers to make paywalls look bad. The Dallas Morning News has 49,000 subscribers? Owens says those don’t really count because they’re probably just print subscribers adding digital. He then says the Morning News’s digital revenue declined 11 percent in the first quarter. That’s not true. That’s the number for its parent company as a whole, and it owns three other dailies. A.H. Belo didn’t break out the papers’ individual ad results. Moreover, Owens doesn’t mention that that companywide decline was mostly caused by some bad comps from a year ago. Here’s Belo:
Excluding the impact of a discontinuation of a revenue allocation to digital and the Super Bowl, digital revenue was flat in the first quarter of 2012 compared to the prior year period.
Even if Owens’s numbers were right and all 49,000 of the Morning News’s digital subscribers are print upsells paying $1.85 a month, the paywall would still be well in the black. Getting print subscribers used to paying for digital access, whether it’s two bucks a month or ten, is a key advantage for newspapers who will need to eventually convert significant portions of their print circulation over to digital.
He also says this:
The Minneapolis Star Tribune has 300,000 print subscribers and is charging a modest $1.99 a week (much less than Simon’s proposed $10 per month for the Sun) and has only 20,000 online subscribers (“only” being relative to our previous points about what’s required to sustain the kind of journalism Simon expects paywalls to sustain). Since the paper is now held by private equity, earnings reports are hard to come by.
While some of the raw numbers attributed to early adopters of paywalls might seem impressive, there are two things not being fully disclosed by publishers: the percentage of bundled packages with primarily print-minded subscribers and the churn rate for digital subscriptions. The higher the churn rate, the slower growth publishers will see over time and the higher the cost of customer acquisition.
The Strib’s paywall got those 20,000 subscribers in less than six months. Roughly half of those subscribers are new digital-only readers, who pay $2 a week for access, Strib publisher Michael Klingensmith tells me in an email. Another 25 percent were existing Sunday-only subscribers who now pay $1 a week to access the website. And the final 25 percent are the best yet: new digital subscribers who added a subscription to the Sunday paper—by far the most lucrative edition for newspapers. There’s been virtually no churn: 95 percent have stayed on past the intro pricing period.
So we can back into some numbers here. That means the paper has already gotten a new annual revenue stream of about $1.6 million in digital subscriptions. Adding in the new Sunday print circulation revenue brings it to well over $2 million a year (and it’s worth noting, helped keep Sunday print circ flat from a year ago).
This, of course, is hardly enough money to return to the salad days of newspapers, which will never return. But this incremental revenue stream is still new and it’s still fast-growing. It’s unclear where it could end up in three or five or ten years. Even if it stopped growing tomorrow, it’s money that Owens & Co. would have newspapers leave on the table for no apparent reason.
The anti-paywallites tend to make a big conceptual error in not accounting for the fact that large websites almost never sell their ad inventory out. So if you put up a paywall and pageviews fall by even 25 percent, your digital ad revenue will decline by much less than that, since remnant ads pay so poorly.
“The ratio of new digital consumer revenue to lost digital ad revenue is at least 20 to 1,” says Klingensmith of the Strib’s experience.
Unsurprisingly, he says, “I am intensely ‘pro-meter.’”
4. “Paywalls are too easy to defeat on the open Web and the technology is costly.”
This overestimates the technological abilities of the vast majority of computer users, much less their willingness to cheat. You have to wonder why those nearly half a million people are forking over $15 a month or more for The New York Times. Anyway, this can also be a feature, not a bug.
But it doesn’t take $25 million to launch a paywall. Press+, for instance, which now has 350 publications as clients, sets it up for you and charges 20 percent of revenue.
Owens also points out that the Morning News plans to spend $4 million in the next year marketing online subscriptions. I’m glad to see a media company investing in its paper, but that money would be better spent beefing up the paper’s news staff. As Klingensmith tells me, “You don’t have to spend any money “marketing a meter” - people just bump into it as they are browsing your site.”
5. “It takes a packaged bundle to sell good journalism to the masses.”
Who’s talking about unbundling that package? And what does “Paywall schemes disaggregate content and remove it from its traditional package” mean? Because you’re online now you can’t have sports and crime news and politics and entertainment and classifieds and coupons and comics and opinion columns? Huh?
But it really gets my goat when the anti-paywall types break out the old canard, as they seem to always do, that “readers never paid for news.” Owens:
As one of my heroes, Walter Lippman, pointed out in 1920, “Nobody thinks for a moment that he ought to pay for his newspaper.”
Yes, I ought not have to pay for my daily bread, but if the baker charges me, I’ll fork it over. This is very simple: I want to read your newspaper. You charge me for it. I pay, grumbling about that two-bit newsstand increase you just soaked customers for. Transaction closed.
Very few readers buy the paper for the fish wrap. They buy it because of what’s printed on it, (including, in some cases, the ads).
One of Owens’s points about how readers don’t really pay for news is that 85 percent of newspaper subscribers say they buy it for local news. “That means 15 percent of the buyers didn’t care about local news.” All righty, then.
6. “There are numerous free alternatives in every metro market for news, which will greatly reduce the adoption and retention rate of paid digital subscribers.”
Well, yes.
Make your paper as indispensable as you can make it, grab the subscribers you can grab, and let the rest browse fifteen stories a month. If your core readers don’t think you’re worth anything, you’re probably not worth anything.
7. “The barrier to entry for producing local news is quite low in the Digital Age.”
As a cautionary tale, Owens points to a paywall failure from four years ago at the Watertown Daily Times. That paper erected a paywall in 2000 and pulled it down in 2008 after a local news aggregator grabbed Web share. What Owens doesn’t say is that Watertown’s was a relatively prehistoric paywall—the all-or-nothing type—and that the paper’s own managing editor said last year that “A subscription (paywall) website is going to have to happen.”
But that miss is fitting since Owens gives little evidence of understanding the point of the leaky paywall system, which is about getting your core readers to pay you money directly while monetizing casual readers via advertising.
8. “The wrong people are pushing paywalls.”
Most of the paywall advocates I see and read around the Web are the same people in the late 1990s who proclaimed the Web to be a fad. They’re the same people who throughout my online newspaper career didn’t want to break news online, didn’t want to carry a video camera, didn’t want to feature current local news on the homepage, didn’t want to engage with online readers—they pretty much either worked actively or passively to sabotage every attempt at online innovation.
This is bogus. Of course, some of the people in the pro-paywall camp are bean counters. Hey, it takes beans to make chili (unless you’re from Texas, where I was born. But I digress). If you hadn’t noticed, there aren’t many beans left to count. We could use a few.
Certainly, a good number of newspaper owners are just liquidating their properties, as Jack Shafer writes. They’re generally the ones who never invested much in journalism anyway.
I could care less about the shareholders of The New York Times and Washington Post companies. I suspect that the long-term survival of the NYT and other newspapers could necessitate a bankruptcy restructuring, and that wouldn’t be all bad. I’m more concerned about the Times-Picayune and the Los Angeles Times (which, contra Simon, does have a paywall), say, than I am with the random Gannett profit harvester. What’s the point of saving something that’s not worth saving?
And anyway, at this point, the anti-paywall folks are the old guard, as Owens calls pro-paywall people. The free thing has been tried. It hasn’t worked. Let’s try something different.
9. “Paywalls don’t address the fundamental issues facing newspapers.”
The fallacy here is that paywalls prevent newspapers from addressing their fundamental issues. They don’t. They give them a bit more money to address them.
10. “Paywalls continue the history of newspapers avoiding meaningful innovation.”
Of course, newspapers successfully charging their readers for news online is the very definition of a meaningful innovation.
I’m all for doing whatever you can to bring in money to support a robust news operation, and the leaky paywall doesn’t and shouldn’t preclude further innovation. If Owens has any better ideas, perhaps he’d like to share them.
Here’s the bottom line: Does a paywall bring in more subscription revenue than it loses in advertising revenue? If it does—and we’ve seen that they can and do—why are we still talking about this?
Mr. Chittum,
You just don't get it about paywalls. The argument about paywalls isn't about the paywalls themselves, and whether they work or not. You see, they CAN'T work. They just can't. The Howard Owens and Matt Ingrams of the world worked too long and too hard in journalism to see some device invented by The Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdock ruin their second chance at making their vision of journalism work. The web is about a dream...a dream of free exchange. It is about Stewart Brands quote how, "information wants to be free", while ignoring that literally in the sentence before, Brand said "Information wants to be valuable". It is about simmering anger towards news corporations who once killed or edited to death beloved stories or didn't run the editorial page the way we wanted. It's about fiercely defending a profession which we pridefully never did for the money, so other people shouldn't either. Besides, a free web just works better, just don't ask the legions of college kids who know that the only online test-preps worth a damn are the ones you pay for. That is why this fight has to be taken up by those of us who have worked in journalism for 20 or 30 years, long enough to know how frustrating the old model was, how much we hated our superiors and how much we love seeing them burn now. So, paywalls have to fail, they just HAVE TO.
#1 Posted by Stephen, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 12:12 PM
Re: Bundling--Sure, you [i]can[/i] bundle on the Internet, but you have yet to make a convincing argument as to why people would pay for it. Daily newspaper delivery provided an efficient means for receiving a bundle of information when information was scarce--you needed the newspaper to get sports scores, TV listings, comics, etc. On the Internet, though, delivery is costless. I don't need to pay my newspaper to bundle this information for me. I can get my sports from ESPN, FoxSports, CBSSports, local fan blogs, Baseball Prospectus, etc. Further, because this information is disaggregated, I can choose the best of it. I'm not stuck reading the hack columnists my local editor decided to allow sully his pages. Why would I pay my local newspaper to continue bundling this information for me?
Let's look at the automotive industry. Sure, Honda could require I buy a motorcycle if I wanted to buy a car--what a great way to "bundle" it's project. But I think we can pretty clearly see why that wouldn't work. What convincing economic argument do you have that bundling would work on the Internet when the cost structure of delivering information to consumers is completely different? If your side has one, I've never heard it.
#2 Posted by Jack, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 12:36 PM
Nice try, Ryan. Good luck to you.
#3 Posted by Howard Owens, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 12:53 PM
Not bad overall. BUT...
Point 4: the NYT paywall is a fake, not a leaky one. Not the first time CJR hasn't quite been honest on this. (If some ppl aren't enlightened yet about NYCLean or a Greasemonkey script, that's their problem.)
Point 8: 15 freebies a month is too high. The company with the fake paywall just cut from 20 to, not 15, but 10.
Reality? The NYT doesn't want a "harder" paywall because it would be, in essence, Times Select, and op-ed writers would learn who's popular and who's not. And, I think that, not demographics, is the issue.
And, it's not just the NYT. The LAT is defeatable just by going to private browse. (The NYT also used to be defeatable simply by clearing the browser cache; I've not tried that in a while. LAT may be the same.)
If you're not going to fix a leaky paywall and it is, in part, a demographic decision .... what happens five years from now? You continue to let youth self-perpetuate the "we won't pay" idea. And, your old folks readers continue to die off.
====
Stephen: Good luck when there's not money for your job. Like with the P-I's web-only version, which folded due to a lack of biz model, including no paywalls.
===
Geez, I want out of this biz, myself. I didn't study J-school ... went into newspapers because I needed something.
#4 Posted by SocraticGadfly, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 03:07 PM
Chittum writes: "When it comes to paywalls, the question is settled." Did I miss the news story about all those non-newspaper sites deciding to erect paywalls?
#5 Posted by Steve Buttry, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 03:33 PM
Ryan
Part of this might be semantic. If we are talking about Paywalls - we shouldn't be talking about what the NYT does. It is not a paywall - it is more akin to a donation system.
More to the point: What's the purpose of this. We get it. You don't like "FON's" the way Republicans don't like Democrats.
I think it's fine to disagree. I think its fine for a news organization like CJR, GigaOM, Neiman, etc to even have 'ideological' views among their staff. But as Jon Stewart points out - the difference between FOX News and the NYT isn't that one has liberal employees and the other has conservative - it's that the coverage is ideologically motivated in one and not in the other. As a result - FOX News is fun to consume in a comical way at best.
I understand that creating this hard left/right FON/Anti-Fon distinction helps create controversy and therefore views - but as a reader (and lover) of CJR - I find it to be playing to sensationalistic fears and attitudes of "the other" rather than providing real and meaningful analysis of the media world.
Again I point to The Daily Show who does a fantastic job of media criticism (I think that's the force of their satire more than politics). Jon Stewart points out that often their discussion is left v right when it should be corrupt v un-corrupt. How can that analogy play to CJR's coverage.
I write this because I am rooting for you and for CJR.
But I am currently disappointed. I know that you disagree with Shirky, Owens, Buttry, etc.
Great.
Let's move on - because I don't care to read any more "rounds" between you and them or using somebody like David Simon in your steed. I get it - people disagree. I don't need the text-equivalent of Cross-Fire to understand the two points of view.
#6 Posted by David Cohn, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 04:17 PM
Man, I was sick of this paywall debate three years ago! It hasn't gotten any better with age.
Amid the accusations and ad hominems, though, I hope we can all reach a consensus on one point: Micropayments, WTF was up with that?
#7 Posted by Greg, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 05:52 PM
David,
I'm sorry, it's not semantics--read Owens's post. Paywall is the term of art for charging online. I didn't create it, and I referred to it many times in the story as a leaky paywall, meter model, or digital subscription. The NYT's might be a donation system to geeks, but it's not to the vast majority of people (and that kind of thinking is the very reason I feel compelled to keep writing about this stuff--see graf 13 above).
As for what I or we should or shouldn't write about, thanks for your concern (I note your comment didn't appear on Owens's anti-paywall post). I'm sorry you're sorry that people disagree about this, but that's a debate and that's criticism, which is what we do here. Substantive criticisms of the facts or reasoning in the piece would be better.
This isn't Fox News or Crossfire, and I'm not creating a false FON/anti-FON distinction (the term never appeared in my piece) to drive pageviews. This also isn't Business Insider or Gawker, and there is already a very clear distinction between those who favor charging and those who don't. The poor logic and faulty assumptions of Owens's piece that we've been seeing for years still need rebutting, unfortunately, and I'll continue to do so.
#8 Posted by Ryan Chittum, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 06:20 PM
Actually, yes, we DO only buy the dead-tree version of this area's only Sunday newspaper because we need something to put under the kitty litter boxes.
I am not making that up, nor am I trying to be insulting - we partner with that organization and I greatly admire their online coverage as well as the openness of the informal partnership.
There is no other need for anything to be actually distributed via tree-killing paper and oil-burning trucks, cars, airplanes, etc. (not to mention the raw materials that go into the ink, the energy to run the presses, etc.). And one of these days we'll figure out something else to put under the cat boxes.
I am 52 years old, have worked as a journalist since I was 17, and do not read/need paper publications. Mine is proudly all-pixel. Side note, but since you bring it up in the second-to-last graf of #5, there you go.
#9 Posted by Tracy in W.Seattle, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 06:39 PM
@Chittum
I really wasn't going to respond. But then in Twitter you said I was verging on Trollish. I found that and your misrepresentation of my words "i really want the best for CJR, but don't criticize stuff I agree with. that's like Fox News or Crossfire" as very distasteful and somewhat disrespectful.
To be clear: You actually don't know my position on the paywall / anti-paywall debate. I think you've made an assumption about my stance. But my position has not really been represented in this debate. Because the debate you've hosted on CJR here and earlier have been pure black/white.
I can formulate it pretty quickly: Get somebody who says 'yes,' get somebody who says 'no' - and have them shout back and forth all the reasons why yes or why no. It's not really a debate if neither side is listening. It's just going through the motion.
Neither side convinces the other - because neither side can recognize the value/benefit in the other. I think David Simon started this ethos in his original post (which got under the skin of Owens and others) when he characterized the "no" sayers as people who "don't know the first thing about journalism."
As a consumer of that kind of debate - it leaves me with angst and feeling unfulfilled. Especially because I often believe the truth lay somewhere in-between. The truth is nuanced. The road forward is known by nobody.
And now here we are 3 posts and countless comments later still shouting and so defensive that you'll call somebody a troll if they point out the conversation is pointless. In my view this is no longer a meaningful conversation but a battle of intellectual pride rather than intellectual pursuits. A debate between Yes/No assumes all questions and possibilities have been accounted for - if only the other side could just see....
That is my point. I hope you realize I am not trying to be "trollish." Despite what you might think of me - I actually do believe there is value in asking readers for money. Again - I did just that for 4 years at Spot.Us. If you want to call the art of asking for money a "Paywall" fine. But I would still argue it's a semantic football you and others are tugging over. I also believe there is room for free content - that the NYT 'Paywall' is an acknowledgment of that - and if you want to call it a "Paywall" so that you feel as though your side won - go for it.
I am a fan of much of your work, and CJR's etc. But to brush my comment as a reader aside as "trollish" and to mischaracterize my words in Twitter is... uncool dude.
#10 Posted by David Cohn, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 07:53 PM
David,
It's just not true that CJR solicits/hosts yea/nay columns on the pay question (see Clay Shirky). I wasn't involved, but I'd imagine both David Simon's and Howard Owens's op-eds were unsolicited (UPDATE: Actually, Simon's was indeed solicited), and mine certainly wasn't commissioned from on high. Simon wrote something, Owens wrote something in response, and I responded to that.
It was a-okay when Owens "took him to task.", but it's Fox News/Crossfire trolling for clicks when I point out how Owens's piece was deeply flawed. (That's why I tweeted, in response to someone, that your comment was "verging on concern trollish", not just "trollish" btw).
There are still serious disagreements about whether newspapers should charge online, and this stuff is critically important. It should be debated, not shut down.
#11 Posted by Ryan Chittum, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 08:11 PM
Yes. It was okay when Owens "took him to task" - but you are misunderstanding the 'task' that I was speaking about.
If you read my second comment on Simon's post - it was more about the straw man argument (mentioned above as the 'don't know 1st thing about journalism comment). I actually didn't comment much pro/anti paywall. That is not the substance I wanted Simon to respond to. Basically I thought Simon framed that conversation poorly to begin with. The venom he inserted initially seems to still be working - because here we are - and you are calling me "concern trollish."
In that 2nd Simon comment I proposed a devil's advocate to paywalls and then my comment got cut short before going into the pro's of 'paywalls' (again in quotes because I was discussing more the pro's of getting users to pay money). So yes - it was fine for Owens to "take him to task" because I was more concerned about the framing of the debate (which I am still concerned about) than anything else. That was the 'task' I tweeted of.
I can understand misinterpreting that tweet. But there - I've clarified it for you. The comment was neither anti/pro paywall. It wasn't about the paywall - it was about civility in debate. About framing a conversation between two nuanced people instead of one person who is right and one person who 'doesn't know anything about journalsim.' Or in our current circumstance - I'd say you shouldn't try to frame this conversation as between one right person and a 'concern troll.'
In fact: I didn't know that term 'concern troll' before. Having looked it up - I've gone from annoyed/agitated reader to personally offended reader. You're basically calling me a liar in order to 'win' some debate that I think has no clear winner. (Again, that's my point - nobody is fully right).
I realize not EVERYTHING on CJR is yea/nea. As I said in the earlier comment on this post: I am a fan of much of your work (including the conversations with Shirky which are sometimes more nuanced). I am a fan of CJR. Again - if you think I'm a liar - let me know and I'll stop with the compliments. But if you take me at my word - the correct response is "thank you" and "under consideration" if somebody has criticism and/or "here's why I did what I did." Not "you're being a concern troll."
#12 Posted by David Cohn, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 08:55 PM
In order to have a full and meaningful dialogue about the issue it really needs to be split between a philosophical debate and an economic one.
On the economic side, the question is not about paywalls, but about the value of readers/users/subscribers. How do we define that and how do we maximize long term value of each person? Perhaps more importantly, what is the cost of an additional reader/user/subscriber?
I think the NYT took an enlightened approach to the question, but did not provide a definitive answer. Part of that is because they have not (and likely will not) release the important metrics from their work. Cost of acquisition and expected lifetime value are important.
In addition, print newspapers are in an interesting situation in that driving up paper subscriptions can sustain their primary business model (print advertising) and even if there is a marginal sacrifice in future readership it might be worth the trade-off to pay their creditors today.
However, in the long run, prices are often dictated by market forces and indirect competition. And in the long run, it still seems likely that direct price to consumer will fall as the cost of acquiring an additional subscriber goes up due to the strength of indirect competition. This was not true of newspapers for decades as government sanctioned monopolies and duoploies allowed for a very different market back then. But times have been changing since before the advent of the internet. Newspaper subs have been flat against rising populations and Sunday-only delivery only stemmed the tide. This is a direct result of indirect competition from other media types, particularly cable TV.
So what are we left with? I would say an open question in both the short and long run which means that increased experimentation and openness about the relative successes and merits of different strategies should be central to synthesizing long term strategies for these companies. The solution is likely neither what we called a paywall 5 years ago nor is it ignoring opportunities to directly engage a segment of readers in commerce.
Now the philosophical debate is wide open and I think it deserves it's time in the spotlight, too. I think we need to discuss how information dynamics have changed and how to best serve the public. We need to talk about how information is spread and how strategies built to maximize profits may hinder that. How do we avoid these pitfalls not just for the good of our organizations now, but to make our biggest fans happy. How do we support our communities in the best ways possible?
These are all fair questions. I hope the companies that experiment with strategies like paywalls come back with sober analysis of their findings and that we can all discuss what works and what doesn't. I home we can all discuss what we think is best for our communities and what isn't.
#13 Posted by Ben Ilfeld, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 09:29 PM
Steve,
I thought it was clear we were talking about whether newspapers can and should charge, but perhaps I should have said so explicitly.
I don't think everyone should or has to charge.
#14 Posted by Ryan Chittum, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 11:07 PM
David,
I definitely do not think you are a liar, and didn't intend to imply it.
Point is, Owens's piece was okay with you for its straw-man demolition but it's not okay for me to point out its own serious and much more extensive logical problems. It's unilateral disarmament, which is where the "verging on concern trollish" thing came in.
#15 Posted by Ryan Chittum, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 11:43 PM
Who is Steve? And if you were responding to me, I was talking about newspapers.
#16 Posted by Ben Ilfeld, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 11:46 PM
Ryan,
Forgive me for not remembering who solicited what and how, but both of my public comments on the Times-Pic news were, in fact, solicited. I was contacted by folks from CJR and Poynter both, seeking comment, I suppose because Treme has been filming in NO.
In one instance -- I can't remember which -- I declined an interview but responded with an email, and whoever received it asked if they could put it up, and I said okay. In the other, I think, CJR, I was asked if I would write a brief comment, which I thought would be for quotes going into a larger article on the Times-Pic cuts. Then, I saw it posted on its own. I did write my comments down, because I had no time to do any interview, but no, I was solicited for comment by you guys. At least that's how I remember it.
I was writing off the cuff, much in the matter that I might be quoted off the cuff. Hence, my failure to factcheck the LA Times for its paywall, which, when I last checked, didn't exist. Thanks for correcting me on that.
And thanks for clarifying that Mr. Owens was indeed mischaracterizing my '09 piece and the numbers that I invoked. My bare-bones argument was for a metro-centered internet startup and those figures correspond to that only, not to sustaining a 500+ general interest newsroom.
By the way, the Sun was at 500 bodies when it published a competing Evening Sun edition with separate staff, as well as zoned editions in four suburban counties with separate staff. My point was that 500 people are required to sustain metro coverage, but that the revenue stream once supported that many boots on the ground.
That said, a staff of 130 and 40-odd metro staffers is too thin to do Central Maryland justice and it shows. But yes, my argument was that online subscriptions were part of a necessary revenue stream that could enable a newsroom to sustain itself, to rehire lost talent, and return prose journalism to a point where institutional and civil society is carefully and professionally covered.
Frankly, I had started a similar post taking Mr. Owens point by point, but I thought there were other arguments beyond his that were worth considering, so I was still playing around with stuff when yours landed. Not sure whether I should bother now or not. You covered some of the same material.
Not sure I agree that if newspapers as an industry insisted on copyright, that they couldn't police at least the larger aggregators like google and insist on no free use or free linkage. Obviously, that is a leaky cup; witness the music industry and file sharing. But even there, the industry endeavors to police against large, institutional theft to the extent possible. But again, it would have to be industry-wide and it would require a reconsidered relationship with the wire services. I'd be interested to hear more about why you see this as an impossibility, given that other intellectual properties manage to at least police against the large-scale, institutional use of copyrighted material.
#17 Posted by David Simon, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 11:46 PM
Seen after hitting send:
5th graf: That should read that my point was NOT that it requires 500 bodies.
#18 Posted by David Simon, CJR on Tue 12 Jun 2012 at 11:50 PM
Thanks, David (Simon),
I've updated my earlier comment to fix the "unsolicited" part.
As for copyright, the papers could take themselves off Google now if they wanted to, but very few (if any) have done it. And anyway, I think that horse is too far out of the barn.
Re: 500 bodies and the current 130 or so. The sad thing about all this is how little money it would actually take to do a more robust kind of journalism (sans print). I'm talking maybe $25 million a year or so in Baltimore and New Orleans-sized cities, but even that seems out of reach.
#19 Posted by Ryan Chittum, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 12:28 AM
Ryan specializes in lamenting what he perceives to be the misuse of other peoples' money.
In fact, he makes a living giving words to his envy.
Take it with the requisite ton or two of salt.
#20 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 12:45 AM
@Chittum
A concern troll as I understand its definition is somebody lying in order to win some kind of points for their side of an argument. To say I was on the verge of concern trolling is to say I was on the verge of lying (if there is such a thing) - so yes, you were basically calling me a liar and you did intend to imply it with your words - hence why I felt I had to respond.
Your point seems to be that in order to prove I was not 'concern trolling' I'd have to of commented on Howard's piece too. I'm guilty by inaction. That somehow I took a side in the debate by not commenting on Howard's post.
I didn't comment on Owen's piece for a myriad of reasons. I commented on yours because you are a professional media critic. You can write about anything and everything. You chose to bounce one more in a back/forth debate that had hundreds of comments, struck the wrong tone with me from the beginning (although it's interesting to find out in the comment here that Simon thought he'd be quoted in a larger article not having his comments run solo) and is going nowhere. I pray Owens doesn't do a response to your response to his response to Simon's post - because I might lose it. And if Owen's does respond and I don't comment - is that my implied agreement with his arguments?
My point was merely this: As somebody who works in media - it's not what I want from a media critic - at least not after a marathon 'debate' already took place (if we can really call that a debate).
You can take that as constructive criticism ie: I'm a reader (a kind of customer) giving you feedback saying I want something with more nuance or a DIFFERENT topic all together (which would actually be the best IMHO) - or you can call me a liar (or 'concern troll' if that feels more subdued for you).
Still - you have many readers. Many that might 100% love this back/forth that can go on endlessly - and if you decide to serve their needs, go for it. But don't expect me to continue to consume it as a loyal reader.
For now - remaining a fan.
#21 Posted by David Cohn, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 03:44 AM
David,
Re: copyright. You can easily protect the literal words, but it's a bit more difficult to protect the facts. It's not as exciting to read Wikipedia summaries of Wire episodes as it is to watch the Wire, making copyright protection of TV shows useful. Reading a summary of an article will usually suffice, though, even if the words are not as pretty.
Further, given your anti-institutional stance, why should the public be so willing to accept large media institutions forming a cartel in order to ensure their survival?
#22 Posted by Jack, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 09:43 AM
Mr. Cohn:
It seems you occupy an usual position in this dynamic.
You say you are:
1) Unhappy with the lack of nuance in the current debate.
and/or
2) You want this debate to cease or a new debate to begin.
I find your presence here at all remarkable, and I suppose we must credit your extraordinary forbearance with the rest of us and our nonsense. I, too, have at points despaired at points at the tenor of the debate (early name-calling, easy categorizing of the players, Mr. Owen's later manufacture of stats and his misapplication of my own), and yet I waded in on the premise that this debate matters. That it is really the only thing worth debating right now in the industry of prose journalism and that more attention to this is necessary.
You disagree obviously. You declined to engage to a greater extent than you did, and, perhaps, in doing so turning the debate more to your satisfaction. But now, from on high, you wax philosophical about your overall disappointment. Moreover, critique someone else's engagement and role as being untoward to boot.
And finally you ask for a new debate, something more to your pleasure.
I have to ask: Why bother commenting at all? And why bother following any of this if it is so disappointing to you? We've been blathering quite a while now, yet you are still here, weighing in on who should participate and on what terms, and on how poorly we're doing. Yet for your own part, you don't deign to make your own arguments or to help cast the argument in a better light, and you arrive in time to pronounce your desire to see the topic dropped and a new one engaged.
Really, dawg? I'm not calling you a liar or a troll or any names at all. But your stance is, well, a bit TOO nuanced for anyone to take seriously.
#23 Posted by David Simon, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 09:52 AM
Jack:
I'm indeed aware that the raw facts of a news event are beyond copyright. But a great deal of what even a good regional newspaper offers readers is reportorial insight, detail and context -- the guts of beat reporting.
Do people pay for that? Not everyone to be sure. There were plenty of people who went without a daily newspaper when television and radio could give you bite-sized, two paragraph morsels on the day's events, and do so in a more timely fashion. That was all the news many people needed.
Newspapers made their living from the remainder of the citizenry. And while some people took the daily people for reasons other than detailed, contextual local reporting, I do believe, from conversations with friends and neighbors and strangers throughout Baltimore, for example, that this is exactly what people now miss, given the staff reductions at The Sun. Certainly, a half million subscribers are willing to pay for the NYT take on the day's events in detail, rather than simply grabbing the stories off Google. Now, true, the NYT is a still vibrant source of prose journalism; many regional papers, less so. But, too,
Google is still ripe with news reports from legacy news organizations that are still offering their reports for free.
Are there newspapers now so eviscerated that they can't genuinely offer the good stuff to people they ask to pay for it? Yep. Ryan pointed that out, which argues, I think, for the industry to act quickly before leaching even more talent away. Again, that's the shame of the industry's initial response in these challenging times, the cost of disrespecting your own product. But for every newspaper, I'm arguing, the only chance of survival is to seize on the only viable revenue stream that can offset the advertising losses and then use the fresh revenue, if it comes, to reinvest in the quality, depth and idiosyncrasy of their unique, local news report. If it works, they live. If it doesn't, they die. And, to paraphrase Mr. Taylor who showed up here a while back with this simple bit of wisdom: If they do nothing and continue to give away the product and hope, they die a little more slowly.
#24 Posted by David Simon, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 10:16 AM
"daily paper" in the third graf. Not "daily people."
Spellcheck is the work of the devil.
#25 Posted by David Simon, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 10:21 AM
"Let’s be clear: When it comes to paywalls, the question is settled."
I am going to file this away for two or three years, and then bring it back out and see if it deserves a place on the Wall of Hubris, along with "The Internet is just a fad, like CB radio."
We can argue all we want on this question, but it's the market that will decide the winners and losers. From my standpoint, I say bring on the paywalls. They just create more opportunities for disruption.
In today's world, if you aren't a disruptor, then you are being disrupted.
#26 Posted by Kirk Caraway, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 11:52 AM
Kirk,
Can you please source this quote on the internet being a fad and who said it? I know this much, it was not a newspaper. Because I know that in every town, the first site to go online was the local newspaper, dating all the way back to the early or mid-nineties at latest. No one thought it was a fad...we knew it was the future. Hell, The CEO of Lee Enterprises, Lloyd Schermer talked about dire competition from networked computing back in the early 80s. What papers did not anticipate was the destruction of print advertising prices, which were never undercut by radio, TV or free weeklies.
#27 Posted by Stephen, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 12:33 PM
@David Simon
I will start by thanking you for also taking a pleasant tone in your comments.
To be clear: Most of my comments on this thread were actually not about the debate or even my criticism of the debate. Instead, unfortunately, they were to defend my character against public accusations of being a "concern troll" (euphemism for liar). That's actually what's kept me in this thread. I don't think I can be begrudged for wanting to defend my character.
"But now, from on high, you wax philosophical about your overall disappointment. Moreover, critique someone else's engagement and role as being untoward to boot."
Not trying to wax philosophical - just pointing out my personal read on this "debate." I am not critiquing your involvement or Owne's. Neither of you work for CJR or are paid to be media critics. Chittum is and in that respect I think is open to reader criticism for what/how he chooses to write about.
You write: "That it is really the only thing worth debating right now in the industry of prose journalism"
I would disagree. It is not the only thing worth debating.
But even if it were the ONLY thing to 'debate' - I think a meaningful conversation between you and Owen's is fine. Even temporarily on CJR, a site I use to find out what's happening in journalism. But from Chittum I would hope he would go outside the debate between two individuals and find more insight. Maybe talk to somebody who is using a pay fence and somebody who isn't, find out why, report back in their words. I'd much prefer that kind of report-back (even with differing views) over more folks with more opinions arguing over each other in line-by-line counter-debate format. I don't think this is an insane request.
You write: "I have to ask: Why bother commenting at all?"
I have a soft spot for CJR. I interned there in 2004 and went to Columbia's J-school from 2005-2007. That's why I come back regularly. I comment because as a reader I think I would be better served by less talking heads taking battle-sides and opining and getting more insight from people who are actually using paywalls or not using paywalls.
You write: "I'm not calling you a liar or a troll or any names at all. But your stance is, well, a bit TOO nuanced for anyone to take seriously."
I don't think my stance is THAT complicated. I think parts of what you write are good and parts aren't. I think parts of what Owen's has written are good and parts aren't. That I am not in total agreement with one side or the other shouldn't make me a puzzle so confusing so as not to be taken seriously. I agree - it means I have a nuanced position - but the idea that I'm on the fence and don't think I'll be convinced by either side in this thread shouldn't be a life-altering concept.
So that's where Im leaving it. I am happy to be upgraded from liar to un-serious. If you all want to keep doing this and CJR keeps emailing me updates and 'next rounds' in the debate I will simply ignore them and rely more on Nieman Lab, Poynter, AJR, etc. My desires will hopefully be met elsewhere.
#28 Posted by David Cohn, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 01:27 PM
Interesting and intriguing positions, to be sure. At its core, however, philosophical posturing does not change the operative question – how consumers will behave when offered the choice in a given marketplace between a paywall-powered print publication with a digital outpost, and a freely accessible online news source providing comparable, quality local coverage. If they aren’t faced with that question yet, they will be soon.
As an online digital-first independent news publisher in a small Midwestern town, I already know the answer. I have no costly, antiquated distribution system to support, no mid-level bureaucrats with expectations of raises and bonuses, and no concern over the price of newsprint. Out of the $600 in advertising revenue I made today, my overhead will eat up only $150.
I would certainly ask the journalistic Santa Claus for the Christmas present of a paywall, metered or not, for my competitors.
#29 Posted by Thomas Palmer, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 06:49 PM
I have to agree with David in terms of wishing that we could have more material discussions about this issue. Let's suspend for a moment the debate over whether paywalls are implicitly a good idea or a bad idea. Let's instead talk to the companies who are doing them and those who are not. Let's find out what the pluses and minuses are. Let's try to find out if they're meeting their revenue goals. Let's find out what the companies that don't have paywalls are doing to make money online. This is what I'd like to see more of on CJR, not this "holy war."
#30 Posted by Anna Tarkov, CJR on Wed 13 Jun 2012 at 09:31 PM
Anna, your comment about holy war etc. would go down easier if you hadn't said this on Simon's original post:
"How much longer are we going to have people idiotically proclaim that readers always paid for the news until the big, bad Internet came along and newspapers started giving it away for free?
Readers never paid for the news. Advertisers did. And now because media companies can't figure out a way to make 20% profits again, we have to pay? I don't think so."
Okay for you to argue, heatedly, that readers never paid for news. Not okay for me to argue that yes they did?
And the Strib reporting in there and the analysis of theirs and others' numbers is explicitly about the pluses and minuses of companies doing them. I put calls out to other folks who didn't return them or didn't want to comment. If you know of any companies willing to open their books, let me know, and I'll call em up.
#31 Posted by Ryan Chittum, CJR on Thu 14 Jun 2012 at 02:28 AM
Wow Ryan, really? Are you going to pretend that all the ensuing dialogue between myself and David didn't happen? That was my first comment. You'll note I wrote many more and so did David. I also wrote a few comments on his own site about this and he responded to those as well. So let's not pretend that my original comment was the ONLY thing I have said on the matter. I wrote that comment in a heated manner, I admit, and I think later comments I wrote greatly expanded and clarified my position.
In case it needs to be clarified further, I am a huge proponent of asking people to pay (and paying myself) if the content/information is worth paying for. I currently have print subscriptions for The Atlantic, the Economist and CJR come to think of it. At one time I paid for the Chicago Tribune, but I found I never read it in print and hardly ever online (even though that's still free). If the Chicago Reader wasn't free, I would pay for it. Of course now that they've been purchased by the company that owns the Sun-Times, they probably don't need my money. Though who knows what will happen to their independent editorial voice. I would have paid to preserve it, but they didn't ask me for money. If I still lived in the city and didn't have a child, I might pay for Chicago Magazine or Time Out Chicago. As it is, those publications give away everything for free online and my guess is that both are in the black. I could verify that by making a few calls if you'd like.
I didn't realize you tried to get numbers from many other publications that have paywalls so I'm sorry if I made it seem like your reporting was incomplete or lazy. I know it's very difficult to get people to talk concrete figures, but perhaps they would answer a question like "Is your paywall meeting your expectations and/or goals?" or "Is your paywall making you money that you are re-investing in content and staff or is it just barely staunching the bleed?" I realize the latter question is poorly worded, but I'm sure someone like yourself can come up with a better way to ask it.
#32 Posted by Anna Tarkov, CJR on Thu 14 Jun 2012 at 09:17 AM
And before anyone else mentions it, yes, I understand that the magazine business is very different from the newspaper business. But they also have many things in common and if one is succeeding better than another in the digital age, we need to take a look as to why.
#33 Posted by Anna Tarkov, CJR on Thu 14 Jun 2012 at 09:34 AM
To answer Ryan's last question, Owens is presumably still talking about whether paywalls work because he wants to defend his free business model and believes that attacking paywalls is the way to do so. However, there is no doubt that online ads do not work for supporting news and that paid is the only way to go. But after all Howard's silly arguments, he does end with a decent one: "The primary reason newspapers have up to this point failed to build real online news businesses, as I pointed out before, is this resistance in their organizations to change."
I agree with Howard that the notion that paywalls will save organizations this hidebound is silly. The environment has fundamentally changed and media has become a constantly mutating business, where each successive technological change leads to new ways of doing business every few years. The notion that existing media businesses will be able to navigate this upheaval strains credulity when it has taken them this long to even figure out that they must charge for their work. Paid subscription is the way to go, but that is only going to benefit the sea of bloggers out there, not the existing media corporations who are too traditional and rigid to understand any of this.
All existing media businesses will go bankrupt in the coming years, from the NYT to the WSJ to the Economist to Disney, but the sea of bloggers and podcasters who replace those old media institutions will usher in a golden age of journalism and media.
#34 Posted by Ajay, CJR on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 08:59 PM