On Wednesday night, at the Republican National Convention, vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan gave a speech that was eloquent, exciting, and riddled with misleading statements. Ryan criticized President Obama for failing to save an auto plant in Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, WI—even though the plant closed before Obama took office. He noted that Obamacare cuts Medicare spending—cuts that Ryan himself included in his own budget proposal. He blamed Obama for not heeding the recommendations of the Simpson-Bowles debt commission—but didn’t mention that, as a member of that commission, Ryan himself opposed its final report. And he faulted Obama for the downgrade of America’s credit—while eliding the fact that the ratings agency that issued the downgrade cited the debt ceiling standoff precipitated by Republicans as the reason.
As Ryan spoke, Twitter erupted with real-time outrage and refutations of his claims. But, as Brendan Nyhan noted here at CJR, even after a strong run of political factchecking, “the morning-after coverage of Ryan’s speech in the mainstream media [was] largely an example of what not to do.” The New York Times ran a piece titled “Rousing G.O.P., Ryan Faults ‘Missing’ Leadership,” which noted that Ryan’s speech contained “searing takedowns of Mr. Obama,” but which left the factuality of those searing takedowns unexamined until the 17th paragraph. The Washington Post front-pager, titled “Paul Ryan promises GOP ‘won’t duck the tough issues,’” did note in the eighth paragraph that Ryan “critiqued Obama’s positions without disclosing the fact that he had held similar ones,” but the mention was brief, and the theme didn’t carry through the rest of the piece. The Los Angeles Times’s piece also pushed back on Ryan in the eighth paragraph, and again further down. The Wall Street Journal’s piece didn’t bother factchecking Ryan’s speech at all.
To be sure, many of these publications ran factcheck material elsewhere—and promptly—in their pages and on their websites. On the Washington Post’s site, even before midnight, Jonathan Bernstein blasted the “incredibly lazy mendacity” of some of Ryan’s claims, while Glenn Kessler did a thorough factcheck of the entire speech for 6 a.m. Thursday morning. On The New York Times’s site, Michael Cooper noted Thursday morning that Ryan had made “several statements that were incorrect, incomplete, or incompatible with his own record in Congress”; on Friday, Cooper penned a long piece for the print edition—it ran on A13—titled “Facts Take a Beating In Acceptance Speeches.” Since the end of last week, much of the politico-media world has been caught in a debate over factchecking—a debate largely precipitated by the response to Ryan’s speech.
So if these mainstream outlets are willing and able to publish factcheck material in their blogs and columns in short order, and in second-day pieces in the main report, why wasn’t it more prominent in the initial news articles on the speech? Most of the topics about which Ryan was speaking weren’t particularly obscure, after all; any sentient campaign reporter ought to know that Ryan’s budget counted on Medicare cuts, and that he ultimately disowned the Simpson-Bowles report. Sure, they might not have all the details at hand, but it wouldn’t have required much research to refute his claims. Indeed, the information that was central to the work of refutation was widely available even as Ryan was speaking.

You would seem to be the one needing fact-checking. 1) According to the Janesville Gazette in an article dated February 19, 2009, the GM plant continued in operation until at least that date and wasn't scheduled to close until April of that year. The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel also reported, prior to Ryan's speech, that the Janesville plant wasn't "idled" until 2009. 2) Ryan didn't say Obama was responsible for the closing. 3) Ryan specifically said, as he started his remarks about the plant closing "When he (Obama) talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory." In other words, Ryan acknowledged that the community was already aware of the plant closing.
You're so quick to call for more fact-checking of pols, especially Republicans. Who's fact-checking you???
http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/feb/19/gm-plant-last-day-finalized/
http://www.jsonline.com/business/130171578.html
#1 Posted by William Tate, CJR on Tue 4 Sep 2012 at 12:09 PM
As with the 'fact-checking' of Romney's statements on welfare reform, this year's fashion in political journalism seems a little factually-challenged itself. Mickey Kaus has nailed down the case that Romney is more correct than not in his assertion that the Administration is moving to weaken the 1996 welfare reform, and no one, not even Ryan Chittum, has taken up the challenge of disproving him. Nevertheless, the lazy and biased MSM continues to claim that Romney's assertion has been debunked. The 'fact-check' seems to consist of taking Kathleen Sibelius at her word instead of reading the fine print in the waivers.
Similar case with Ryan. The above article could have noted that, while the layoff order came in Dec. 2008, the Janesville factory continued to produce vehicles until April 2009. The fact that the author chose not to complicate his narrative of 'lying' Republicans indicates what is going on here.
Finally, Ryan gave his reasons for voting against the final report of the Simpson-Bowles commission. That didn't mean he opposed everything about it, but the MSM is holding the GOP, as usual, to much higher standards than the Democrats. Pres. Obama has writted two autobiographical books that the sympathetic David Maraniss concedes has made-up information in them. It took almost four years for the press to perform this 'vetting' function? Maybe, long after Pres. Obama has left office, we will find out 'the facts'.
#2 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Tue 4 Sep 2012 at 12:36 PM
It's funny how this used to work. A vote on a bill took place. The congress critter voted against it and the opposition picked out a slice of the bill to hammer him in the next election cycle. It's a time-honored ritual we've all been exposed to.
Now comes the advent of fact checking in real time. Certain politicians don't like the fact that the new day has arrived and they are responsible for their campaign claims and false declarations. We should mock them. And then throw them out on their ears since we lack the ability to tar and feather them.
#3 Posted by paul j, CJR on Tue 4 Sep 2012 at 03:36 PM
Maybe I am too much of an outsider, but I see what happened after or around the time of the Ryan speech as a dramatic change of direction for the mainstream media, admitting for the first time that leading politicians - other than foreign ones - could lie. Some even used that word, which heretofore had only been heard on MSNBC and in the left and liberal journals of opinion.
This may be the newest phase of the fact check movement, and it quickly moved to question even Romney and Obama. And liar may become an intrinsic element of Ryan's basic media portrait.
Seems to me that neither journalists nor other elites usually move that quickly.
I am now waiting for the network evening news anchors to use the verb lie although the CBS Evening News mentioned Ryan's lies high up in their story on the Ryan speech. (I dont remember the verb they used)
#4 Posted by Herbert J Gans, CJR on Tue 4 Sep 2012 at 05:12 PM
Mr Tate and Mr Richard – enough bull.
Ryan himself quoted Obama as saying, "IF government stands up for it, this plant will last 100 years." Ryan then conveniently left out the "if" clause ever after.
GM announced the plant's closure in summer of '08, and Bush's government certainly didn't intervene – hence whatever Obama had to say was entirely moot. When the plant actually closed is irrelevant. What Obama said is irrelevant. The government didn't intervene, hence anything Obama said was mooted by facts.
Here's the logic of it:
Parent: "If you study, you'll pass your classes and graduate."
Kid then doesn't study and flunks.
Kid: "You said that I'd graduate, and I didn't."
All "true," of course – but irrelevant. The kid didn't study. Government didn't support the plant. Obama had nothing to do with any of it.
And yet here is Ryan, and you two also, trying to argue that somehow Obama had something to do with the plant closing, or that Ryan "didn't lie."
If that isn't a lie then Clinton didn't lie when he said he didn't have sex with that woman. Technical.
Give it up. Ryan's plain intent was to mislead people, and it's high time the media started headlining the mendacious outrageousness of our politicians when they behave this way.
#5 Posted by Charles H. Green, CJR on Tue 4 Sep 2012 at 10:28 PM
Sigh. Here's the problem. GM sucked long before the crash of 2008 (you can see '"Who Killed The Electric Car" and gave the the hybrid market to Toyota?' for details). Gas guzzling SUV's were aggressively marketed while oil prices we're getting destabilized by Bush Administration wars and stupid foreign policy. Did they adapt? No. They threw thousands of dollars in rebates behind every car sold in order to stop the bleed in market share. They were on the slow way out long before 2008.
Then credit froze and everybody, including Toyota, got bailouts from their governments. There was ZERO demand for crappy, gas guzzling, American cars at that point. NONE. The factory was making cars to fill a lot, not to fill a need.
Spend a bit of time on wikipedia read about it a little:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_crisis_of_2008-2009
Now what did the Obama administration do when they took over? They bailed out GM, made their creditors take a hit, threw out the bad management, and saved many of the suppliers which would have been dragged down with GM.
They also used policy to spur new and efficient car sales, which critics ridiculed. In fact, to the limited degree that they were involved in GM and the auto sector, the Obama Administration were painted as socialists by a-holes like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. So yeah, it's a sad story what happened to the Janesville factory, but what more did the a-hole critics want THE GOVERNMENT to do?
It's not like they're big fans of stimulus and government spending when a democrat is in office, nor energy efficiency and renewables initiatives. Bet take I've seen:
"In short, the Janesville shutdown commenced in June 2008. Once it was clear that aid wasn’t forthcoming in November, actual assembly lines were being shut down by December. It is true that Paul Ryan tried to get the Obama administration to save another plant, in Kenosha, which the Obama administration failed to do. Attacking Obama for that is fair. But hitting him for Janesville is dishonest. The first assembly line stopped rolling in December 2008. Workers unfurled banners declaring the “Last Vehicles Off the Janesville Line” at a “final goodbye ceremony,” The plant was closing regardless of what Obama did.
This is a very strange dispute, in a way. Mitt Romney wrote an op-ed in the New York Times under the title “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,” and now his campaign is trying hard to fault Obama for not bailing out automakers aggressively enough. Not only that, but after the campaign’s repeated denunciation of the Obama administration for “picking winners,” Ryan is faulting Obama for not “picking a winner” not just among companies, but among plants. He’s attacking Obama for not using the government to micromanage GM’s affairs."
#6 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 01:06 AM
Dang it! Forgot the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/30/obama-could-not-have-saved-janesville-gm-plant-it-closed-before-he-took-office/
#7 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 02:01 AM
"As with the 'fact-checking' of Romney's statements on welfare reform, this year's fashion in political journalism seems a little factually-challenged itself."
I dealt with this in the original thread.
http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/false_equivalence_on_romneys_b_1.php#comments
"Ugh. Let's start from the beginning: Clinton Welfare Reform sucked. People resigned over what Clinton did and for many of the reason which are manifest now. The Welfare Reform enacted under Clinton has proven broken under the recession of 2007 on."
Check out the links in the original because you cannot discuss welfare reform in this recession without giving Jason DeParle's work a look over.
But the distress of the last four years has added a cautionary postscript: much as overlooked critics of the restrictions once warned, a program that built its reputation when times were good offered little help when jobs disappeared. Despite the worst economy in decades, the cash welfare rolls have barely budged. Faced with flat federal financing and rising need, Arizona is one of 16 states that have cut their welfare caseloads further since the start of the recession — in its case, by half. Even as it turned away the needy, Arizona spent most of its federal welfare dollars on other programs, using permissive rules to plug state budget gaps.
Jesus, this stuff is fairly obvious. Not even the republican wonk who helped design welfare reform can get behind Mitt on this attack:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/08/08/ron-haskins-welfare-reform-mitt-romney_n_1755653.html
In order to get people money who are long term jobless (see the cjr stories on the 99ers) states asked for waivers and Obama gave them - temporary and based on the subject's barriers to employment, 6 months worth according to a cited letter.
As NPR reported from fackcheck org:
"Work requirements are not simply being 'dropped.' States may now change the requirements — revising, adding or eliminating them — as part of a federally approved state-specific plan to increase job placement."
"And it won't 'gut' the 1996 law to ease the requirement. Benefits still won't be paid beyond an allotted time, whether the recipient is working or not."
So why is Romney doing this?
#8 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 02:42 AM
Didn't get to finish my arguement due to dead phone.. Anyways, some say the motivation is to capitalize on racial tensions and there's a compelling arguement to be made towards that:
http://mobile.nationaljournal.com/2012-election/why-and-how-romney-is-playing-the-race-card-20120829?page=1
But it's not really the whole issue. The theme that the republican party is trying to win on is that 'you work hard. Other people don't work hard. Obama is taking what's yours and giving it to those others who don't deserve it. Vote republican.'
Of course those others are not the wall street bankers and private equity folks like Mitt Romney:
http://m.rollingstone.com/entry/view/id/29473/pn/all/p/0/?KSID=f7c0e1dbba125ffa46a6de7c40460f84
Noooo. Who are these people?
#9 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 12:33 PM
To Mr. Green, the 'bull' has been the quickness of the 'fact-checkers' to read into Ryan's statement, instead of reading the plain text. You haven't challenged the timeline given, which at the very least undermines the categorical judgment that Ryan 'lied'.
I expect by the standard you establish, quite a lot of Democratic statements, including those by the President, could be classified as lies, but are not. Which is my main concern - the president has gotten away with 'lying' about Citizens United, about non-rich people, and about events cited in his two books on himself. We'll see this week if the fact-checkers are as assiduous about calling out 'lying' when it comes to the Democrats, as they are re the Republicans. I don't mind toughness if it is equally apportioned.
#10 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 01:09 PM
Delayed arguement due to IRL drama.
Who are these people? Well, in the past it was pretty easy to identify who conservatives were singling out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
"You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.[36]
And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger"."
And you saw alot of this 'abstract thinking' in the works of Charles Murray. It is much more soothing to blame a subject culture and their IQ for their problems than to find fault in the dominant culture they inhabit. An economic / racial problem is thus transformed into a cultural / genetic / government enabler problem.
"Those *can't say* are taking our stuff because BIG GOVERNMENT."
But now we have a general unemployment problem and a general dependency on government to patch the holes in the social fabric - holes created by banker failures and the conservative hollowing out of the middle class. So the dependency/inequality problem now isn't as easily defined away as a race / culture / IQ problem, since it affects whites now too. And if we claim it is an economic problem, then we have to examine the economic policies which enabled the problem to spread.
Thus conservatives, like Charles Murray, have turned their economic problem into a moocher class culture problem. Social decay isn't because people don't have money due to the lack of living wage work, it's because people don't want to work. The handouts are just to easy to get and generous to live on. Stupid government is at it again.
This idea is wrong:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/opinion/krugman-money-and-morals.html
"For lower-education working men, however, it has been all negative. Adjusted for inflation, entry-level wages of male high school graduates have fallen 23 percent since 1973. Meanwhile, employment benefits have collapsed. In 1980, 65 percent of recent high-school graduates working in the private sector had health benefits, but, by 2009, that was down to 29 percent.
So we have become a society in which less-educated men have great difficulty finding jobs with decent wages and good benefits. Yet somehow we’re supposed to be surprised that such men have become less likely to participate in the work force or get married, and conclude that there must have been some mysterious moral collapse caused by snooty liberals. And Mr. Murray also tells us that working-class marriages, when they do happen, have become less happy; strange to say, money problems will do that."
We have an economic problem that is directly related to the idea of 'give to the rich and it will trickle down to the poor' mentality. If you want people to work, give them decent jobs. If you want to increase the spread between the cost of production and the price of product (to enrich the rich) give those jobs to Chinese.
#11 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 02:32 PM
Thus Mitt Romney is campaigning on the idea that those who don't work lack dignity and Obama enables those people not to work.
There he goes again, it is the subject people's fault. The fault is never with people like him:
http://m.rollingstone.com/entry/view/id/31287/pn/all/p/0/?KSID=f7c0e1dbba125ffa46a6de7c40460f84
Vote republican.
#12 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 02:40 PM
The psychology of white liberalism where race is concerned is interesting and under-explored - that mix of guilt, self-righteousness, and nobility. In order to associate opposition to federal policies with 'race', it's necessary to have that association in one's own mind. I can remember when 'law and order' was a code word ('dog whistle') for racism, too - as if the rising crime rates of the 1960s and 1970s were not of concern independent of its racial demographiics. You didn't have to be very 'racist' to object to 'forced busing', i.e., the assignment of children to public schools strictly on the basis of their ancestry.
The more subtly analysis of 'how race is lived' in America would note the class-based attitudes about 'race', and the way race-baiting is used by upper-class whites as a weapon against the 'striving' whites in flyover land. It isn't a Kennedy or Rockefeller kid who gets turned down at Columbia in the name of 'diversity'. It's more likely to be an intelligent white male kid whose parents came of modest means. The latter demographic doesn't even apply to the elite schools anymore, according to admissions staffers.
The race/gender preoccupations of the dwindling cohort of white, urban liberalism has blinded them to real concerns of real people - except when it hits home, of course.
#13 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 04:55 PM
"The psychology of white liberalism where race is concerned is interesting and under-explored - that mix of guilt, self-righteousness, and nobility. "
Blardy blardy blar.
I thought we were talking about the veracity of laying the Janesville factory closing at the feet of Obama's 'broken promise' and the taking 'the dignity out of work' welfare myth.
If you want to change the subject now, just say so.
#14 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 Sep 2012 at 11:38 PM
To Thimbles, funny, I could swear that a review of the above threads shows that you went off on a tangent about race and politics, not I. Sorry that I got caught taking you seriously again.
The posters who have made the case that the 'fact-checkers' were too hasty and sweeping in condemning Ryan' statements about the Janesville plant have not been disproved by this thread. There is always room for ambiguity and interpretation of almost any political speech. By the Ryan standard, candidates Obama and Biden have serious problems with the truth, but the standard media narratives do not make this central to their personas, as us being attempted re Ryan.
#15 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Thu 6 Sep 2012 at 11:15 AM
These reporters are not covering the content of the speeches so much as they are covering the effect of the speeches on the audience. With so much emphasis on the "horse race" aspects of the campaign, who has time to delve into the content?
#16 Posted by Don A in Pennsyltucky, CJR on Thu 6 Sep 2012 at 12:27 PM
"To Thimbles, funny, I could swear that a review of the above threads shows that you went off on a tangent about race and politics, not I. Sorry that I got caught taking you seriously again."
Race, politics, and economics are directly connected to the welfare ad, politics and economics directly connected to the Janesville plant. Both are lies. The responsibility for the Janesville plant wasn't Obama's, it was GM's and the auto market (both of which the government got involved in WAY more than Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney would have supported). The waiver on welfare programs is a a temporary response to crisis conditions, not a gutting of the law.
Why republicans are pursuing these attacks, despite being called on them for their blatant dishonesty, is because
a) they want to change the topic from the stories Romney is directly responsible for like:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/16/barack-obama/obama-ad-claims-romney-bain-left-misery-wake-gst-s/
b) they want to win using racial prejudice to get out their white vote because, according to Chait:
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/08/2012-or-never-for-gops-white-base.html
this is the last shot they've got at this.
Your response is to talk about 'white liberals and their guilt blardy blar.. Lee Atwater had a point about forced busing blardy blar.'
So then, which of us is being serious?
#17 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 6 Sep 2012 at 01:36 PM
"There he goes again, it is the subject people's fault. The fault is never with people like him:
http://m.rollingstone.com/entry/view/id/31287/pn/all/p/0/?KSID=f7c0e1dbba125ffa46a6de7c40460f84"
A fun follow up to a necessary read:
http://m.rollingstone.com/entry/view/id/31578/pn/all/p/0/?KSID=85934e077fe73f2639a4ef86052a0953
" In the piece I point out that PE firms take over companies and then can induce those companies to pay out massive dividends to their new masters, often taking out giant bank loans to do so. I cited multiple concrete examples of this, like the KB deal where the failing company was induced to pay out a $121 million dividend (financing this with $66 million in bank loans), and the Dunkin' deal, in which Bain and Carlyle induced Dunkin' to pay a half-billion dollar dividend, taking out a $1.25 billion loan to finance it...
I was never talking about what's in these deals for Romney's partners and investors. I was talking about what's in it for Bain and Romney...
Instead, the whole "cover story" passage was intended to explain an important point: it's certainly better for the PE firm if the company turns around, but if it doesn't, that's not so bad either, since if all else fails, they can just always just rape the acquired company. And while the "dividend recaps" aren't by themselves enough to bring investors back to the next deal, you can bet they wouldn't come to any PE deals at all if the PE firms they invested with didn't possess this "rape in case of emergency" weapon in their financial arsenals.
As an investor, do you really want to throw your hard-earned cash into a company to whose bottom line Mitt Romney just added $300 million in debt? In a company that just borrowed $300 million not to buy new equipment or invest in R&D, but just to buy the "asset" of new management by Mitt Romney? In a vacuum, you probably wouldn't invest in that firm – but if you know Romney can force the company to pay out a $120 million dividend on demand, taking out huge bank loans if need be, you'd feel a lot safer.
My point isn't that it's not good for PE firms when companies turn around, but that the system is set up so that they don't have to make companies turn around in order to make profits on takeovers...
But the fact that the occasional bloody casualty not only doesn't dent the bottom lines of PE firms, but can even enhance them, makes this a very particular kind of capitalism – highly socially destructive, with little or no risk to the PE firm, but with the potential for massive profits to the Bains of the world even when they add zero or negative value to their takeover targets.
I think that sucks. Primack disagrees. He thinks it's more significant that "legitimate wins matter" in the long run, while I think it's more significant that they don't matter in the short run...
The bit at the end of his piece is a classic example. I quoted Steven Feinberg of Cerberus Captial saying he'd happily kill any employee of his who gets his picture in the paper as part of a larger point that PE titans keep extremely low profiles, compared to the corporate owners of America's past....
Primack countered by pointing out that Feinberg is an aberrational recluse and that Steve Schwartzman has his name on the New York Public library and Henry Kravis's name is on a building on the Columbia Journalism School."
Didn't I say this was going to be a fun follow up?
#18 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 6 Sep 2012 at 03:07 PM
Good post. On another note, would it be possible to limit thimbles to, say, only 7,000 words in the comment section?
#19 Posted by Ted, CJR on Thu 6 Sep 2012 at 05:10 PM
Hey, I'd love to be able to hash these issues out on twitter.
But it doesn't work. Guys like Mark where incomplete answers of 140 characters or less is the norm.
I do apologize for my lack of terseness. If you can answer the challenges better and more brief than I, feel free to do so.
#20 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 6 Sep 2012 at 11:53 PM
"But it doesn't work. Guys like Mark thrive where incomplete answers of 140 characters or less is the norm."
My kingdom for an editor.
#21 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 7 Sep 2012 at 02:33 AM
Thimbles, since you name-check me, I'll respond by noting that many of us do not, apparently, have the time (particularly in the wee hours of the morning) to post the prolix, frequently non-sequitor-filled messages on this thread of which you are a specialist.
I'll note that now Brendan Nyhan in CJR today is taking a slightly different tack on 'fact-checking', post Democratic Convention speechifying. He now concedes that 'fact-checkers' can be a little quick with the trigger-finger, something that didn't occur to him when he was bemoaning the alleged 'lies' of Romney and Ryan. In today's Washington Post, the newspaper (after accusing Romney of lying about Obama and welfare reform) has been shamed into publishing Robert Rector's extremely detailed exposition of why Romney was right. Maybe Justin Peters can use Rector's piece share his reflections on trigger-happy media, too, and why journalists docilely took Kathleen Sebelious' word for it instead of reading the fine print on the welfare waivers. This morning I heard Scott Horsley repeat on NPR that Romney's claim had been 'discredited'. Does CJR have the slightest concern about this?
#22 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Fri 7 Sep 2012 at 12:46 PM
"Thimbles, since you name-check me"
Explain what you mean by name-check. Most of the time I really don't pay attention to you because, as a non-drinker, I can only handle so much whine.
"many of us do not, apparently, have the time (particularly in the wee hours of the morning) to post the prolix, frequently non-sequitor-filled messages on this thread of which you are a specialist."
You think I do have the time? I got a family, a job, kids, a wife who forces me to hit submit in the middle of a paragraph because "Your ice cream is melting." and she's going to yell if I let it melt, and many other things which compete for time. So when I post in the wee hours of the morn, that's because that's the only quiet time I've got. But enough about me since I and 'white liberal guilt' are not the bloody subject (though they seem to be the only subjects you want to discuss).
"In today's Washington Post, the newspaper... has been shamed into publishing Robert Rector's extremely detailed exposition of why Romney was right."
The abstinence guy? The Heritage Foundation's Abstinence education guy? Really?
Let's look at this trash that you were so helpful not to link. I assume this is it?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-obama-has-gutted-welfore-reform/2012/09/06/885b0092-f835-11e1-8b93-c4f4ab1c8d13_story.html
"Those work requirements were the heart of the reform’s success: Welfare rolls dropped by half, and the poverty rate for black children reached its lowest level in history in the years following."
Yeah that was nice in 1996, during Clinton's economy, WHERE ARE WE NOW?
"The poor people who were dropped from cash assistance here, mostly single mothers, talk with surprising openness about the desperate, and sometimes illegal, ways they make ends meet. They have sold food stamps, sold blood, skipped meals, shoplifted, doubled up with friends, scavenged trash bins for bottles and cans and returned to relationships with violent partners — all with children in tow.
Esmeralda Murillo, a 21-year-old mother of two, lost her welfare check, landed in a shelter and then returned to a boyfriend whose violent temper had driven her away. “You don’t know who to turn to,” she said...
Critics of the stringent system say stories like these vindicate warnings they made in 1996 when President Bill Clinton fulfilled his pledge to “end welfare as we know it”: the revamped law encourages states to withhold aid, especially when the economy turns bad...
Clarence H. Carter, Arizona’s director of economic security, says finances forced officials to cut the rolls. But the state gets the same base funding from the federal government, $200 million, that it received in the mid-1990s when caseloads were five times as high. (The law also requires it to spend $86 million in state funds.)
Arizona spends most of the federal money on other human services programs, especially foster care and adoption services, while using just one-third for cash benefits and work programs — the core purposes of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. If it did not use the federal welfare money, the state would have to finance more of those programs itself...
While federal law allows such flexibility, critics say states neglect poor families to patch their own finances. Nationally, only 30 percent of the welfare money is spent on cash benefits."
In the middle of a historic economic crisis, this is morally wrong.
#23 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 7 Sep 2012 at 07:47 PM
So what does the waiver do?
According to Rector "Any state will be free to follow the new Obama requirements “in lieu of” the written statute."
Rector cites a doc that has all the dirt right there. Wanna know what it says?
"Section 1115 allows for waiver of compliance with section 402 of the Social Security Act to the extent and for the period necessary to enable a state to carry out an approved project. The statute also provides authority for >costs of such projects which would not otherwise be an allowable use of funds under Part A of Title IV to be regarded as an allowable use of funds, to the extent and for the period approved."
Wow, that sounds like an expansion of state autonomy. Thought conservatives liked that sort of thing but whatever.
Section 1115 authorizes waivers concerning section 402. Accordingly, other provisions of the TANF statute are not waivable. For example, the purposes of TANF are not waivable, because they are contained in section 401. The prohibitions on assistance are not waivable, because they are contained in section 408.
"While the TANF work participation requirements are contained in section 407, section 402(a)(1)(A)(iii) requires that the state plan “[e]nsure that parents and caretakers receiving assistance under the program engage in work activities in accordance with section 407.” Thus, HHS has authority to waive compliance with this 402 requirement and authorize a state to test approaches and methods other than those set forth in section 407"
OMG, they'e going to let the states pay for these lazy people to laze around!11!
"As described below, however, HHS will only consider approving waivers relating to the work participation requirements that make changes intended to lead to more effective means of meeting the work goals of TANF.
Moreover, HHS is committed to ensuring that any demonstration projects approved under this authority will be focused on improving employment outcomes and contributing to the evidence base for effective programs; therefore, terms and conditions will require a federally-approved evaluation plan designed to build our knowledge base."
Oh. In fact:
"Waivers will be granted only for provisions related to section 402.
The purposes of TANF, the prohibitions contained in section 408 (including the time limits on assistance contained in that section), or any other provision of TANF other than those specified in section 402 will not be waived."
And if you read on there's a whole lot of conditions that must be considered before a state project is approved.
So to read this as a permanent rejection of the work requirement instead of a response to economic circumstance takes some "creative license".
#24 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 7 Sep 2012 at 08:30 PM
Real creative license, especially when you consider during the Bush Administration, republican governors asked for waivers.
http://www.policyshop.net/home/2012/8/7/playing-politics-with-the-poor-the-case-of-tanf-waivers.html
"In 2005, 29 Republican governors signed a letter supporting a reauthorization of TANF that would include more waivers to state governments. Among those signing the letter was Governor Mitt Romney."
Oh yeah, I thought that conservatives liked that sort of thing.
"That request found a receptive audience in the Bush Administration. Tommy Thompson, Bush's Secretary of Health and Human Services from 2001 to 2005, had pushed a proposal for granting states more flexibility on TANF early in his tenure.
Such greater flexibility never came to pass during the Bush years, but some Republican governors kept up the push once Obama was in office -- like Governor Brian Sandoval of Nevada and Richard Herbert of Utah...
Last month, Republican governors finally got their wish when the Obama Administration issued new rules granting states more flexibility in administering TANF's work requirements. HHS announced it would use its authority to "approve waiver demonstrations to challenge states to engage in a new round of innovation that seeks to find more effective mechanisms for helping families succeed in employment." But states would have to demonstrate that their approaches achieved the work goals of the 1996 law through rigorous evaluation."
So the moment they got what they wanted, they didn't want it anymore since it came from 'the Kenyan'.
"As it happens, the Obama Administration's approach to granting waivers is not what some conservatives wanted, believing that the administration was overstepping its authority, and Heritage immediately condemned the move -- with many Republicans falling in line behind a false narrative that Obama had "gutted" the work requirements under TANF."
These guys are such mendacious a-holes.
#25 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 7 Sep 2012 at 08:41 PM