In 2004, Tom Philpott quit his job as a financial journalist in New York City and moved with his girlfriend and her sister to take over their father’s farm in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. Today, Maverick Farms is an educational nonprofit farm that promotes sustainable agriculture and family farming as a community resource. Philpott is also a food columnist for Grist Magazine, where he is one of the only American journalists to bluntly confront the class issues that permeate our food system. CJR’s Brent Cunningham talked to him in March.
What does class have to do with the effort to change the way food is produced and consumed in this country?
I think about it from two different lenses. First, if you start with the idea that our food system is broken and you want to build a movement to reform it, one thing you have to confront head on is that the food industry is a massive business—something like a trillion dollars a year—and it’s a huge employer, one of the biggest in the U.S., and paradoxically the people working in the food system tend to be among the lowest-paid workers in the country; I’m talking about farm workers, meat packers, etc. So you’ve got this vast army of workers who get paid very little and in the end can really only afford to eat the cheapest crap. The second lens is how, since the 1970s, wages adjusted for inflation have stagnated, and starting about the same time—not coincidentally—the USDA switches policies and starts encouraging farmers to grow as much food as possible and you get this long period of declining food prices; you get this steady drop in food expenditures as a percentage of income. I don’t think you can run an economy with structurally stagnated wages without food being really cheap.
You situate the food debate in this broader globalized economic and cultural reality.
Food doesn’t get enough attention from the people making the economic critique. There are economists who discuss this stuff, but not really as it pertains to food. And on the food side, Michael Pollan [the author of The Omnivore’s Dilemma] is a brilliant man but he doesn’t think in terms of economics, and that is real common in what might be called the agri-intellectuals.
To extent class does surface in the food debate, it tends to be about whether organic food is too expensive for the masses.
Right, and where else I think it goes is this issue of personal responsibility. I believe that personal choice can make a difference, and that you can eat cheaply without resorting to processed foods. But you have to keep in mind the structural things that keep processed food so available and so easy and so cheap. People like Pollan and Alice Waters [owner of Chez Panisse and doyenne of the sustainable-food movement] are capable of lapsing into this personal responsibility critique, and I think it is so limited. Both of them know that, I think, and both of them are careful not to do that, but I think it’s very easy to lapse into it, and when they do the journalists covering them don’t press them on it. There’s a long tradition of blaming the poor for their problems. Part of me doesn’t want to begrudge someone who has some awful job—a job that I would not want to do—from enjoying a cheeseburger at the end of the day.
The key, as you say, is to make those healthy choices more accessible to people. That’s a massive job. Do you ever feel you are tilting at windmills?
Absolutely. Because I feel like there’s so much cultural and economic momentum behind the status quo. Take something like cooking skills—it is something that you learn generationally. I don’t want to hark back to some golden age—I mean, Julia Child grew up with servants—and so it isn’t like everyone used to cook and now they don’t. There has always been a class thing around food. But cooking is something that we learn most commonly from our parents, and it is something that can be lost in a single generation. And that skill has been widely lost and regenerating it is no easy task. The culture of convenience is so widespread and ingrained that it will be super hard to change. And so yeah, I do get discouraged. But what kind of knocks me out of that is the fact that in our intellectual culture there is a tendency to look for big solutions. When you look at the food situation like that, it seems impossible. But when you think about it in terms of small solutions, plural, you start to get hope. There are people working on this on the ground. The solution is right in front of us. I think the little projects I often write about, as they gain momentum—and as they sometimes lose momentum and flop—can become a model for policies that can be effective.
For example, someone like Will Allen who started Growing Power in Milwaukee. This guy’s been at it for twenty-five years, and he’s trained a whole lot of people how to grow food in small places—and he’s reintroducing the culture of fresh food, of home cooking, into places where the economy has cratered, and the food culture cratered with it. It’s not a fluke at this point. One of the knocks against Will Allen that I think is so ridiculous is that he’s not creating a viable food economy because his operation has relied on foundation money. My response to that is that our entire food system is propped up by subsidies of some kind, and the infamous crop subsidies are just the tip of the iceberg. There are de facto subsidies like letting feedlots pollute without having to pay for it. But my original point about him is that we should look at him as a model, look at the stuff that has really worked and then figure out how we can put public policy behind this. That’s where I think you could start to get some traction.
Like what?
The model of taking unused urban land and doing intensive agriculture. By that I mean, the Will Allen style, or what’s called French Intensive. In the nineteenth century in France, and really all of Europe, there was a land crunch and their agricultural productivity was declining. In the cities, and even in the countryside, they had little space and people figured out a way to grow a lot of food in a really small space that wasn’t resource-intensive. You build up compost so you have really fertile soil, and you plant really close together so your crops create a canopy that crowds out weeds, and because your soil is so fertile you can get away with planting things so close together. Think of a modern American city. An incredible amount of fertility, in the form of food, is extracted from the soil somewhere and brought into the city, and people eat it and it goes into the sewage system and that creates this pollution problem that is dealt with at great expense. And then you’ve got all this food waste that generally goes into landfills. Will Allen’s insight is to capture the waste stream and turn it back into soil fertility to feed these intensive beds. That could happen in any city. And there could be a city employee, a director of fertility, and there could be the city agriculture director.
Create incentives for this kind of thing, through policy, the way we currently incentivize our industrial food system.
Right. You could take what he’s doing in Milwaukee and formalize it. This is what gives me both hope and frustration. We’ve got these models but we don’t form policy based on them. Cities have a water policy and an electricity policy. They need a food policy. That’s how we start to overcome some of this inertia.
How did you come to see this class connection in the food story?
I’ve always been a political person, and also really into food and cooking. But I always kept those two things separate. When I really started to make the connection was in late 1990s and early 2000s when I was living in New York City. I joined a CSA and a community garden, and my girlfriend was working for Greenthumb, the city organization that oversees the community gardens. Then Mayor [Rudy] Giuliani declared the gardens “communism” and put them on the auction block, and there began a protracted battle between Giuliani and the community gardeners. In that battle, that is when I really started to think hard about the politics of food and the class issues around food.
When the economy of New York was in freefall in the seventies, the landlords—especially in poor neighborhoods—were literally not making in rent what they were paying in taxes, and there was this rash of fires where landlords would torch their buildings, collect the insurance, and check out, leaving these lots of rubble that the city didn’t have the resources to deal with. Community members organized and cleaned them up—they were often African Americans from the South, or West Indians who came from a tradition of family or community gardens, or in some cases hipsters or hippies that just wanted to garden. These people built these gardens and the city was only too happy to have them do it, and it leased them the lots for a dollar a year. Then came the real-estate boom in the nineties. And if you’re a developer getting federal money to build affordable housing and you go to East New York and walk around the neighborhood and decide which lot you want to build your quote-unquote affordable housing on, the part of the neighborhood that has the community garden is going to be the nicer part because there are people in there all day, eyes on the street, this beautiful space that people care about—there’s going to be a lot less drug dealing on that corner than on the next one over, where there’s just a vacant lot sitting there. The developers really wanted those spots, so Giuliani declared that the dollar-a-year lease was communism and put them on the block.
So sort of analyzing the way that whole thing went down, and thinking about why the question wasn’t: How can we support this? But rather: How can we destroy this? That’s when I really got involved in the food movement as more than just a consumer.
What do you think of Michelle Obama’s effort to tackle children’s health and nutrition?
I think it’s amazing to have a First Lady or anyone high up in the administration thinking about these issues and talking about them more or less frankly in public. But I have to say that after all that hype I am really disappointed—though not surprised—by what looks to be the outcome of the school lunch reauthorization proposal. The Obama budget asked for about $1 billion a year, and frankly even that number wasn’t sufficient—it would have added about twenty cents a day to the current amount for ingredients for school lunch. Then [chair of the Senate Agriculture Committee] Blanche Lincoln cuts that in half. Where does that leave Michelle’s efforts? So the money is one thing, but in the end, if she is really serious about this thing, she’s going to have to confront the food industry head-on. And whether she’s willing to do that remains to be seen. Right now it’s about engagement with the food industry, and maybe that’s okay. But at some point, if she’s serious, there will have to be a showdown.
How do you manage the political reality in Washington? How do you translate the vision for this movement with what is actually feasible in the policy-making realm?
I’ve been thinking about this in terms of what happened on health care. They didn’t take out industry, they preserved the role and profitability of the big insurance companies. At the same time, we’ve been led to believe that they are going to provide affordable insurance to 30 million uninsured people. It remains to be seen, but on paper at least they achieved this policy goal and did it without breaking the bank, and overcame incredible opposition. So what would such a thing look like in food policy? The political realists won the day. What could we achieve that would be like that in the realm of food policy?
But that’s got to be the next big battle on the food front, right? To begin to change the policies?
Yes, and I think the 2012 farm bill is going to be really interesting. The movement got so galvanized in 2008 and achieved only marginal gains in that bill. But we need a broader agenda than just “cut farm subsidies.” That’s the one that resonates with people, but it doesn’t solve the bigger problem. We need investments in infrastructure and different incentives for farmers.
The kinds of things that you’re talking about will draw the same charges of socialism that were leveled at Obama’s health care plan.
That’s right, and actually the farm subsidies become useful in my response. You’re calling me a socialist because I want public investment in infrastructure, but you’re not complaining that we have between $12 billion and $25 billion to put into subsidies each year. How is that not socialism? It’s big government taking people’s tax dollars and redistributing them.

"You situate the food debate in this broader globalized economic and cultural reality.
Food doesn’t get enough attention from the people making the economic critique. There are economists who discuss this stuff, but not really as it pertains to food. And on the food side, Michael Pollan [the author of The Omnivore’s Dilemma] is a brilliant man but he doesn’t think in terms of economics, and that is real common in what might be called the agri-intellectuals."
In Food Inc., the film he participated in (watch a relevant clip here
http://www.pbs.org/pov/foodinc/video_dollar.php
where Pollan talks about the economics of cheap processed food), they talk about the economic distortion of soy bean and corn products' subsidy driven production.
They also talk about how this subsidy driven cash crop production has given leverage to seed owners like Monsanto to brow beat farmers with intellectual property laws into using their patented seed. Their GMO seeds become the basis of the processed food chain which means Americans are increasing being force fed a diet of Genetically Modified Food based on their economic circumstances. People either can't afford produce or the time to prepare produce and therefore require the GMO cornfed, processed food, diet.
Where this system is really felt, however, is on the third world where the economies were agri-dependent and production driven subsidized food invade. The American exports put farmers out of business and the culture of food cultivation is lost. The displaced workforce needs a new place to work, and so they come to the US to work the farms that put them out of business (another point made by the Food Inc film, but flushed out more fully here in this doc looking at Jamaica:
http://www.lifeanddebt.org/ )
So I don't know where Philpott is getting the idea that food intellectuals don't consider economic realities. The real reality is that the food system, like the energy system and the financial system and the manufacturing system, rely on information deprived consumers who cannot calculate the real costs because those costs are externalized to the production system or those products aren't labeled.
In order for real alternatives to compete, real costs need to be attached to account for the externalized ones and proper labeling is required. Consumers need to be informed in order to make informed choices and reduce the information asymmetry in the markets.
Which is why the relevant interests fight labeling and free speech (through veggie libel laws) so hard.
#1 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 12:03 AM
The biotech crops have lost their primary reason for existence, immunity to herbicides that weeds don't have: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html
But the damage has been done. Farmers have lost their seed stock. This should be a matter for public debate.
#2 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 01:11 AM
First, if you start with the idea that our food system is broken and you want to build a movement to reform it.
Isn’t it a problem that Philpot has to begin his argument with such an obvious red herring? How, under any reasonable metric, could our “food system” be considered broken? Crop yields over the past 50 years have soared, land usage has decreased, hunger has plummeted, and real prices have trended downwards. How is this broken?
Processed foods are bad for you, so what? Eat less of them, farming techniques have little to do with that. “Locally grown organic foods” are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food.
Individuals like Philpot and Pollan haven’t really done the math to see that eliminating synthetic nitrogen fertilizers and industrial farming techniques means 3 billion people starving to death (an outcome many environmentalists would relish unfortunately). Stick that in your pipe and smoke on it for a while.
#3 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 12:24 PM
Perhaps we could reflect on what Norman Borlaug, a real "Food Fighter", had to say on this subject:
Some of the environmental lobbyists of the Western nations are the salt of the earth, but many of them are elitists. They've never experienced the physical sensation of hunger. They do their lobbying from comfortable office suites in Washington or Brussels. If they lived just one month amid the misery of the developing world, as I have for fifty years, they'd be crying out for tractors and fertilizer and irrigation canals and be outraged that fashionable elitists back home were trying to deny them these things
#4 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 01:02 PM
"How, under any reasonable metric, could our “food system” be considered broken? Crop yields over the past 50 years have soared, land usage has decreased, hunger has plummeted, and real prices have trended downwards. How is this broken?"
The increased yields come at a cost of degraded soil, causing an ever increasing need for fertilizers and pesticides.
Which, never mind the health effects, are made of oil.
And on the meat side, things have gotten much much worse as food borne diseases increase and the chemicals injected into bunched together animals grows higher.
"Processed foods are bad for you, so what? Eat less of them, farming techniques have little to do with that. “Locally grown organic foods” are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food."
This is incorrect. Most processed foods and animal feed are based on soy and corn, a high percentage of which is genetically modified but let's ignore that. A mono-staple diet is bad for our bodies. We have evolved to get nutrients from a variety of things and therefore, our digestive systems did not evolve specialization towards one or two crops. And this is assuming that the two crops aren't losing nurtients during the processing stage. We are not healthier from a processed food diet (watch this doc Killer at Large):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iBHm5zji_Y
The proof is in the corn pudding.
"Individuals like Philpot and Pollan haven’t really done the math to see that eliminating synthetic nitrogen fertilizers and industrial farming techniques means 3 billion people starving to death (an outcome many environmentalists would relish unfortunately)."
No, industrialists like Borlaug haven't done the math to see that using finite resources, such as oil based chemicals and ground water, to spike production only puts off starvation, it does not avert it. That means that the cost of food is directly related to the cost of water and oil. That means when oil shocks like in 2007 hit, people starve.
For some of you, these independent works may not be to your taste, but if you want a sober look at the food issues the globe is facing, the BBC program "The future of food" was excellent:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_playlists&search_query=bbc+future+of+food&uni=1
And the Cuban post oil shock doc "THE POWER OF COMMUNITY: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil" shows how the post oil intensive organic system may develop. People who hate hippies and leftists on here might like the doc because an essential step for regaining Cuban food security was the state relinquishing control of farms. The land became privatized and free market food markets were allowed where farmers could set the prices for their produce.
Worth watching at any rate.
#5 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 01:18 PM
A clip of the Cuba doc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIC-0JYoDs8
And a BBC article on Cuban food production.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8213617.stm
#6 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 01:23 PM
The increased yields come at a cost of degraded soil, causing an ever increasing need for fertilizers and pesticides. Which, never mind the health effects, are made of oil.
Wrong on all counts. Synthetic fertilizers and pesticides have actually slowed soil degradation by allowing farmers to practice no-till, dramatically slowing soil erosion. Synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are NOT made from oil. Synthetic nitrogen is made utilizing the Haber process. Feedstock for the Haber process is natural gas and nitrogen. The base stock for nearly all petrochemicals is ethylene which is also made from natural gas.
And on the meat side, things have gotten much much worse as food borne diseases increase and the chemicals injected into bunched together animals grows higher.
Wrong again, foodborne illness rates have decreased dramatically over the past several decades.
A mono-staple diet is bad for our bodies. We have evolved to get nutrients from a variety of things and therefore, our digestive systems did not evolve specialization towards one or two crops. And this is assuming that the two crops aren't losing nurtients during the processing stage. We are not healthier from a processed food diet (watch this doc Killer at Large):
Ummm .. OK, like I said, eat less processed foods.
No, industrialists like Borlaug haven't done the math to see that using finite resources, such as oil based chemicals and ground water, to spike production only puts off starvation, it does not avert it. That means that the cost of food is directly related to the cost of water and oil. That means when oil shocks like in 2007 hit, people starve.
The “oil” questions has been answered above: synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are NOT made from oil and water can hardly be classified as a “finite resource”. While environmentalists like Erlich and Holdren were writing off billions of people to die of starvation, Borlaug the wicked “industrialists” was actually using “science” to feed them. The food price spikes of 2007 didn’t lead to any famines and had more to do with increased consumption rather than oil prices.
As for the “Global Exchange” documentary … you don’t honestly think I would take anything from them seriously, did you?
#7 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 02:06 PM
"Wrong on all counts. Synthetic fertilizers and pesticides have actually slowed soil degradation by allowing farmers to practice no-till, dramatically slowing soil erosion."
No, what they've allowed them to do is to stop crop rotation at the cost of depleting the soil biology. This requires you to use more chemicals to replenish the soil of the ingredients its biota produced naturally.
"Synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are NOT made from oil. Synthetic nitrogen is made utilizing the Haber process. Feedstock for the Haber process is natural gas and nitrogen. The base stock for nearly all petrochemicals is ethylene which is also made from natural gas."
The production of pesticides sometimes requires petro-organic compounds but it appears I was mistaken on fertilizers. (although natural gas is still a fossil fuel)
However, the industrial food system is still very oil intensive and still is very responsive to oil shocks (based on equipment and distribution costs. You can't decrease the percentage of people employed in farming and decrease the area land devoted to farming without requiring machines to do the people labor and convoys to ship the food over increasing distances. And then there are the machines required to make the processed food.)
"Wrong again, foodborne illness rates have decreased dramatically over the past several decades."
The animals themselves are ill with disease because they are kept in unsanitary conditions and fed an unhealthy diet. Therefore they require regular antibiotics and hormones.
And other steps:
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-12-31-meat-wagon-ammonia-burger
And yet still bugs get into our food supply.
These chemicals in our meat pose problems because a) we ingest those substances without knowing the effects they will have on us b) bacteria that is commonly exposed to antibiotics become resistant. We are creating the potential for super foodborne bugs.
"Ummm .. OK, like I said, eat less processed foods."
No, what you said was "Processed foods are bad for you, so what? Eat less of them, farming techniques have little to do with that. “Locally grown organic foods” are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food."
"The “oil” questions has been answered above: synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are NOT made from oil and water can hardly be classified as a “finite resource”. "
Yes, ground water is a finite resource if you use it fast enough, as is natural gas. Deplete it and it's gone for a generation or three, much like good soil.
"Borlaug the wicked “industrialists” was actually using “science” to feed them."
And if it could keep working indefinitely I'd be right with you. "Damn those stupid environmentalists who do nothing but make people starve," I'd say.
But it's not going to keep working forever. Growth cannot keep happening forever on a finite planet. And techniques which surge the food supply for one generation, but use up the resources for future agriculture for three, do not avert disaster. It's great to come up with ways to feed people when you have ground water, fertilizers, pesticides, and suitable soil, but after you've used up those things what do you do?
"The food price spikes of 2007 didn’t lead to any famines and had more to do with increased consumption rather than oil prices."
The increased food prices had to do with to production costs, biofuel demand, and the increased cost in fertilizers. (What you say? Oil prices don't cause a spike in fertilizer costs you say? Well it did. When the price of oil went high, production in the Alberta tar sands went high as well. Oil is extracted using an energy intensive process to boil out the crude from the sands. The energy for this comes from, you guessed it, natural gas. When oil goes high,
#8 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 03:34 PM
"Wrong on all counts. Synthetic fertilizers and pesticides have actually slowed soil degradation by allowing farmers to practice no-till, dramatically slowing soil erosion."
No, what they've allowed them to do is to stop crop rotation at the cost of depleting the soil biology. This requires you to use more chemicals to replenish the soil of the ingredients its biota produced naturally.
"Synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are NOT made from oil. Synthetic nitrogen is made utilizing the Haber process. Feedstock for the Haber process is natural gas and nitrogen. The base stock for nearly all petrochemicals is ethylene which is also made from natural gas."
The production of pesticides sometimes requires petro-organic compounds but it appears I was mistaken on fertilizers. (although natural gas is still a fossil fuel)
However, the industrial food system is still very oil intensive and still is very responsive to oil shocks (based on equipment and distribution costs. You can't decrease the percentage of people employed in farming and decrease the area land devoted to farming without requiring machines to do the people labor and convoys to ship the food over increasing distances. And then there are the machines required to make the processed food.)
"Wrong again, foodborne illness rates have decreased dramatically over the past several decades."
The animals themselves are ill with disease because they are kept in unsanitary conditions and fed an unhealthy diet. Therefore they require regular antibiotics and hormones.
And other steps:
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-12-31-meat-wagon-ammonia-burger
And yet still bugs get into our food supply.
These chemicals in our meat pose problems because a) we ingest those substances without knowing the effects they will have on us b) bacteria that is commonly exposed to antibiotics become resistant. We are creating the potential for super foodborne bugs.
"Ummm .. OK, like I said, eat less processed foods."
No, what you said was "Processed foods are bad for you, so what? Eat less of them, farming techniques have little to do with that. “Locally grown organic foods” are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food."
"The “oil” questions has been answered above: synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are NOT made from oil and water can hardly be classified as a “finite resource”. "
Yes, ground water is a finite resource if you use it fast enough, as is natural gas. Deplete it and it's gone for a generation or three, much like good soil.
"Borlaug the wicked “industrialists” was actually using “science” to feed them."
And if it could keep working indefinitely I'd be right with you. "Damn those stupid environmentalists who do nothing but make people starve," I'd say.
But it's not going to keep working forever. Growth cannot keep happening forever on a finite planet. And techniques which surge the food supply for one generation, but use up the resources for future agriculture for three, do not avert disaster. It's great to come up with ways to feed people when you have ground water, fertilizers, pesticides, and suitable soil, but after you've used up those things what do you do?
"The food price spikes of 2007 didn’t lead to any famines and had more to do with increased consumption rather than oil prices."
The increased food prices had to do with to production costs, biofuel demand, and the increased cost in fertilizers. (What you say? Oil prices don't cause a spike in fertilizer costs you say? Well it did. When the price of oil went high, production in the Alberta tar sands went high as well. Oil is extracted using an energy intensive process to boil out the crude from the sands. The energy for this comes from, you guessed it, natural gas. When oil goes high,
#9 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 03:34 PM
No, what they've allowed them to do is to stop crop rotation at the cost of depleting the soil biology. This requires you to use more chemicals to replenish the soil of the ingredients its biota produced naturally.
Wrong again, crop rotation has not stopped. Crop rotation used to based solely on depletion concerns, while crops are now rotated based primarily for financial reasons (fertilizer costs, and food prices). You conveniently neglected my point that synthetic fertilizers have nearly eliminated topsoil erosion issues.
The production of pesticides sometimes requires petro-organic compounds but it appears I was mistaken on fertilizers. (although natural gas is still a fossil fuel)
While a small amount of ethylene is produced as a byproduct of oil refining, nearly all ethylene is produced via natural gas and ethylene is the primary feedstock for the industrial scale production of organic chemicals. Natural gas is a fuel we produce nearly 100% domestically and one whose supply is measured in centuries of reserves.
However, the industrial food system is still very oil intensive and still is very responsive to oil shocks.
Don’t confuse energy with oil, during WWII farmers ran their tractors on wood. Oil prices drive the transportation component of food prices more than production costs.
You can't decrease the percentage of people employed in farming and decrease the area land devoted to farming without requiring machines to do the people labor and convoys to ship the food over increasing distances. And then there are the machines required to make the processed food.
The hundreds of millions of people worldwide who have moved off of farms are quite pleased to leave the labor to machines.
And yet still bugs get into our food supply.
Yes, and at a significantly lower rate today that 50 years ago … or 10 years ago for that matter. There is absolutely no evidence that a transformation over to “organic” agriculture would make our food supply any safer for human consumption.
No, what you said was "Processed foods are bad for you, so what? Eat less of them, farming techniques have little to do with that. “Locally grown organic foods” are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food."
And I would stand by all of that, especially the statement that “locally grown organic foods” are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food. They are just not.
Yes, ground water is a finite resource if you use it fast enough, as is natural gas. Deplete it and it's gone for a generation or three, much like good soil.
GM crops are being developed that use less fertilizer and water, seems like a pretty good solution to me.
But it's not going to keep working forever. Growth cannot keep happening forever on a finite planet. And techniques which surge the food supply for one generation, but use up the resources for future agriculture for three, do not avert disaster. It's great to come up with ways to feed people when you have ground water, fertilizers, pesticides, and suitable soil, but after you've used up those things what do you do?
The only constraints are energy innovation. The Malthusians have been screaming for hundreds of years that we are just around the corner from a massive die off. All the problems you have rattled off above have technical solutions that the marketplace will provide (as it has done every time before) if innovation is allowed to innovate. People like Julian Simon understand this.
#10 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 05:40 PM
"Wrong again, crop rotation has not stopped. Crop rotation used to based solely on depletion concerns, while crops are now rotated based primarily for financial reasons (fertilizer costs, and food prices). You conveniently neglected my point that synthetic fertilizers have nearly eliminated topsoil erosion issues."
No you're wrong. Many farmers devote their fields to growing a single crop and they feel they can't afford to leave a field fallow. Farm management has been around since the pyramids were built and people managed to run their farms on the same land for many generations without losing the top soil. Were the farms of Europe using ammonia based fertilizer back then too? No, they did crop rotation and planted something like barley on the scheduled to be fallow field. Many farms don't do that and they use a hell of a lot more water than the past as well, which leads to fertilizer/pesticide runoffs in the rivers and streams. And that not only has effects on the stream, it affects us:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0427_050427_strangedays3.html
And you neglected my point that the chemical fertilizers and pesticides burn out the soil biota.
"While a small amount of ethylene is produced as a byproduct of oil refining, nearly all ethylene is produced via natural gas and ethylene is the primary feedstock for the industrial scale production of organic chemicals. Natural gas is a fuel we produce nearly 100% domestically and one whose supply is measured in centuries of reserves."
Again, that doesn't matter when there's a spike in demand like in 2007 which drove fertilizer prices 6 times their normal cost.
"Don’t confuse energy with oil, during WWII farmers ran their tractors on wood. Oil prices drive the transportation component of food prices more than production costs. "
Yeah, I said that in my post. In the Cuba example, that is why they've moved away from the big remote farms, that require fuel, to the small local urban farms, that require feet.
Which is why a big part of the organic message is "Buy Local".
"The hundreds of millions of people worldwide who have moved off of farms are quite pleased to leave the labor to machines. "
Yes, but the point I was making was that the machines make the food supply vulnerable to fuel cost spikes. And the people who have moved off haven't always moved up in the third world. In Mexico's case, they've moved North.
"Yes, and at a significantly lower rate today that 50 years ago … or 10 years ago for that matter. There is absolutely no evidence that a transformation over to “organic” agriculture would make our food supply any safer for human consumption."
You completely avoided my point that the decline in disease is based upon the inputs we put into the system (antibiotics, ammonia), The system itself is unsanitary and requires chemicals which we ingest to control it. Not ingesting these chemicals because we've adopted a sanitary system will likely have an improvement on our health.
"And I would stand by all of that, especially the statement that “locally grown organic foods” are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food. They are just not."
That depends on what we are talking about here. Let's talk apples and apples. When you said "Locally grown organic foods are no more nutritious for you than industrially grown food." I assumed you were talking about a diet based on the dominant products of that system, soy and corn.
If you are comparing an industrial tomato to an organic one, they should be much the same (not accounting for the chemical treatments used or the GMO proteins one could be allergic to).
"GM crops are being developed that use less fertilizer and water, seems like a pretty good solution to me. "
Not if you can't o
#11 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 09:07 PM
It's disturbing to read that CJR would consider Mr. Philpott a "journalist" when any analysis of his biased work would prove that he's decidedly not. Regretfully, Philpott performs the worst service in writing today, hiding in the blogging world where his slanted opinions of agriculture are given credence by people who know nothing of that profession. It's nice that Tom has strong opinions, but he simply spews his venom based on the work of others. His unfortunate bias leads to regular mistakes in facts and logic that make him a laughing stock of people beyond his small little circle of likeminded sycophants who actually know about agriculture and the food industry.
That he would attempt to criticize Michael Pollan as not understanding the economics of agriculture to bolster his own thin grasp of the subject is a sign that Mr. Philpott's ego has grown well beyond his own meager talents.
Journalism is certainly in a sad state of decline when such a biased, pajama clad gardener can be considered a "journalist". Shame on CJR for this puffery.
#12 Posted by Jen M, CJR on Wed 5 May 2010 at 10:17 PM
@ Thimbles: well done.
@ Mike H: Your inaccurate characterization of Philpott is horrifying. If you'd actually take the time to peruse some of his writing you'll find that he always puts people first-- it just so happens that building community self-reliance from the soil up is also good for the environment. The only people who could possibly stand opposed to these ideas are those who stand to profit from the current system of community dependence on corporate food overlords.
Further, I find it extremely disingenuous of you to rely on the age-old industrial ag apologist's myth that that system is the only way to properly "feed the world" and then trot out Malthusian "philosophy"--the go-to half-baked (and misread) 'theory' of eugenics proponents everywhere. Talk about cognitive dissonance. (here's a Foreign Policy article explaining how and where Malthus and his disciples went wrong; I don't agree with everything the author has to say, but I'm pretty sure he's got the over all gist correct here)
As to industrial ag being the only way to "feed the world," not only is that blatantly untrue (see here, here, and here) the truth is the exact opposite: industrial agriculture is the engine of a system that actually exacerbates hunger (see here and here for starters). As Raj Patel points out in Stuffed and Starved, hunger has nothing to do with a lack of food-- industrial ag currently churns out enough to feed every person on the planet some 3500 calories per day. Hunger is all about lack of access; which in turn is all about poverty and the distribution of wealth.
For a quick and efficient overview of this and other myths about hunger, Food First's myth-busting hunger fact sheet is a good place to start.
@ CJR: thank you for this insightful interview.
#13 Posted by S Marie, CJR on Thu 6 May 2010 at 12:04 PM
I found an interesting site, for those thinking of getting into organic farming especially since the chemical/genetic treadmills appear broken by triffids:
http://www.grist.org/article/the-chemical-treadmill-breaks-down-and-the-superweeds-did-it
Here's the site:
http://rodaleinstitute.org/home
#14 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 6 May 2010 at 01:41 PM
This is so typical. This Mike nay-sayer guy gives NO references, cites NO publications or anything else, only basically says "Uh-uh, you're wrong".
Thimbles gives citations, and backs up his argument.
S Marie, thanks for your input here, too.
#15 Posted by Raven, CJR on Mon 10 May 2010 at 03:42 PM
Philpott is the worst kind of "journalist," someone that steals other people's ideas, pretends their his own and promotes himself and a narrow agenda over objective journalistic standards. No wonder journalism is going under, Philpott is no different than Fox News.
#16 Posted by paula s, CJR on Tue 11 May 2010 at 04:23 PM
Thanks Marie and Raven,
Though I must apologize for the messy writing in a couple of spots. The flu has been going around in my neighborhood and the fever was making me drowsy.
This was a nice little doc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xShCEKL-mQ8
#17 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 11 May 2010 at 09:00 PM
National Geographic did an analysis of Borlaug's Green Revolution's after effects. They found that agricultural diversity has gone down by 90% and that indigenous cultivated crops, which had benefited from thousands of years of selection within their environments, were wiped out. The approach of the Green Revolution was to adapt the environment to high yield crops, not to cultivate crops adapted to the environment.
(This is also the problem with patented GMO's since the farmers cannot select the best of the breeds and benefit from the continuous adaptation that crops undergo when farmers can keep their seed. Genetic heritage was once the province of farmers and the land they grew upon over generations. Now it's the property of a lab. I digress.)
The result is that the crops we have are not resilient under stresses brought on by climate change, and the crops that would be have been were replaced and lost to high yield Borlaug versions.
So now there are folks scrambling all over the isolated parts of the world looking for untainted, indigenous crops in order to bank their genetic properties in the arctic seed bank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault
Yeah, anyways here's the doc:
Seed Hunters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oeM2VGFjd4
#18 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 14 May 2010 at 06:18 AM
Raj Patel is being used as a mouthpiece for maitreya. Don't be fooled by any of these smooth talking liars.
http://www.hiddencodes.com/patel.htm
#19 Posted by knowledge is power, CJR on Tue 18 May 2010 at 02:54 AM
Yes, I guess we should use the power of orgone water to destroy Patel and the legions of reptiles and giants he pals around with.
http://www.hiddencodes.com/protection.htm
Are you serious?
#20 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 18 May 2010 at 09:55 AM
Maitreya - Raj Patel - The Antichrist - the Dajjal
Watch this and you'll have not doubt anymore that Raj Patel is Maitreya:
Part 13:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5kbg8N3DLY
Part 14:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcpjuFkKKS0
#21 Posted by TheTruthIsFromGod, CJR on Fri 21 May 2010 at 04:57 AM
Essential reading:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63C2AJ20100413
"
Kremer's lab is housed at the University of Missouri and is literally in the shadow of Monsanto Auditorium, named after the $11.8 billion-a-year agricultural giant Monsanto Co.. Based in Creve Coeur, Missouri, the company has accumulated vast wealth and power creating chemicals and genetically altered seeds for farmers worldwide.
But recent findings by Kremer and other agricultural scientists are raising fresh concerns about Monsanto's products and the Washington agencies that oversee them. The same seeds and chemicals spread across millions of acres of U.S. farmland could be creating unforeseen problems in the plants and soil, this body of research shows...
Biotech crop supporters say there is a wealth of evidence that the crops on the market are safe, but critics argue that after only 14 years of commercialized GMOs, it is still unclear whether or not the technology has long-term adverse effects.
Whatever the point of view on the crops themselves, there are many people on both sides of the debate who say that the current U.S. regulatory apparatus is ill-equipped to adequately address the concerns. Indeed, many experts say the U.S. government does more to promote global acceptance of biotech crops than to protect the public from possible harmful consequences.
"We don't have a robust enough regulatory system to be able to give us a definitive answer about whether these crops are safe or not. We simply aren't doing the kinds of tests we need to do to have confidence in the safety of these crops," said Doug Gurian-Sherman, a scientist who served on a FDA biotech advisory subcommittee from 2002 to 2005....
A common complaint is that the U.S. government conducts no independent testing of these biotech crops before they are approved, and does little to track their consequences after.
The developers of these crop technologies, including Monsanto and its chief rival DuPont, tightly curtail independent scientists from conducting their own studies. Because the companies patent their genetic alterations, outsiders are barred from testing the biotech seeds without company approvals.
Unlike several other countries, including France, Japan and Germany, the United States has never passed a law for regulating genetically modified crop technologies. Rather, the government has tried to incorporate regulation into laws already in existence before biotech crops were developed.
The result is a system that treats a genetically modified fish as a drug subject to Federal Drug Administration oversight, and a herbicide-tolerant corn seed as a potential "pest" that needs to be regulated by USDA's Animal Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) before its sale to farmers...
Fourteen years after commercialization of the world's first biotech crop, the trio of U.S. regulatory agencies charged with overseeing biotech crops -- USDA, the Environmental Protection Agency, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration -- are under attack on several fronts.
The USDA is most directly in the line of fire after a string of federal court decisions found its officials acted illegally or carelessly in approving some biotech crops.
In one recent case, a federal court banned the sale of a herbicide-tolerant alfalfa engineered by Monsanto until the government more thoroughly evaluates its safety.
U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer of the Northern District of California ruled that the USDA violated federal law in allowing unrestricted commercial planting of "Roundup Ready" alfalfa -- a key livestock fodder -- without a solid review.
Breyer ordered the USDA to prepare an environmental impact statement that explores potential negative consequences that critics say could include contamination of non-GMO alfalfa f
#22 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 23 May 2010 at 11:01 AM