When Mitt Romney was asked at a New Hampshire town hall in June 2011 about climate change, he probably did not think he was taking a risk by admitting that it is happening. “I believe based on what I read that the world is getting warmer,” said Romney. “Number two, I believe that humans contribute to that…. And so I think it’s important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gases that may well be significant contributors to the climate change.”
The science on the subject is clear, and Romney had said the same in the 2008 without inviting a notable backlash. But this time was different. Rush Limbaugh, the godfather of modern conservative talk radio, reacted with horror. Romney had just demonstrated himself too credulous of science and Enlightenment reasoning to win the Republican nomination. “Bye-bye nomination,” Limbaugh intoned. “Another one down. We’re in the midst here of discovering that this is all a hoax. The last year has established that the whole premise of man-made global warming is a hoax, and we still have presidential candidates who want to buy into it!”
Limbaugh’s assertion that Romney could not win the Republican nomination was premature; Romney remains very much in contention. But right-wing voters have held Romney’s statement against him as they continue to search for a suitable alternative.
The brouhaha might seem strange to an outsider, since Romney did not actually propose to do anything about climate change. In his campaign book No Apologies, Romney dismissed cap and trade as “radical feel-good politics.” But the conservative media no longer accept objective facts—the facts themselves must now fit the right-wing narrative. Joseph Lawler, then the managing editor of The American Spectator, explained the closed-circuit epistemology as a means of guaranteeing a preferred policy outcome: “Expressing skepticism of the science behind climate change, as for instance Gov. Rick Perry has, allows candidates to assure voters that they won’t support cap and trade or carbon taxes once they’re in office.”
Sure enough, the next time Romney discussed climate change publicly, at a town hall in Dover, New Hampshire, in August, he softened his earlier comments, saying, “I think the Earth is getting warmer . I think humans contribute to that. I don’t know by how much. It could be a little. It could be a lot.” By late October, Romney had turned into a full-fledged climate change denier. “My view is that we don’t know what’s causing climate change on this planet,” he said at a fundraiser in Pittsburgh.
This episode—the bullying of an educated executive vying to be leader of the free world into the denial of demonstrable facts—was a striking demonstration of the sway Limbaugh and his cronies in conservative media hold over Republican hopefuls. It’s a degree of influence unmatched by any entity on the left, or for that matter by issue activists on the right. (The anti-tax Club for Growth also put out a white paper attacking Romney’s climate change apostasy, but it garnered far less attention than Limbaugh did.) And as the Republican primary unfolds, the consequences of the right-wing media megaphone are clear: the ideological discipline meted out by the pundits is a big part of the reason Republican candidates are sticking so relentlessly to doctrinaire conservative positions during this campaign cycle, and why there is often so little space between them.
Limbaugh, who invented the modern right-wing talk radio format and spawned a generation of imitators, is not the only pundit who thinks he is more powerful than actual elected officials: in October, Sean Hannity invited Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) on his radio program and spent most of the interview lecturing Paul for having had the audacity to criticize him. But Limbaugh is the only one for whom it is undeniably true. “The candidates who run afoul of Limbaugh are marked for death,” says Thomas Fiedler, dean of the College of Communication at Boston University. “Talk radio, and Limbaugh in particular, has defined what the acceptable limits are for the candidates,” Fiedler adds. “They’ve clustered themselves much farther on the right end of the spectrum.”
Next subject for Mr. Adler: The Left Wing Discipline Machine's control of the media message on such subjects as immigration, where everyone who says something with which the left and neoconservatives such as Frum disagree is labeled a racist.
#1 Posted by newspaperman, CJR on Wed 15 Feb 2012 at 01:28 PM
Lectures on partisan/ideological message discipline from a journolister and a staff writer at that most notorious home of interfactional dissent, the Nation magazine.
Physician heal thyself.
#2 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Wed 15 Feb 2012 at 02:40 PM
Mike H, when you can't argue with the message, attack the messenger. Your argument, if you can even call it that, is entirely unconvincing.
Newspaperman, if you have examples, let's see them. Adler can document dozens of instances of wingnut commentators attacking their own for have the gall to accept reality.
Until either of you step up and offer something with substance (which you won't be able to do, thanks to those darned pesky facts), it Adler 2, you two losers 0.
#3 Posted by Jeff T, CJR on Wed 15 Feb 2012 at 03:21 PM
Mark H - Ad Hominem arguments are the lowest forms of political debate.
#4 Posted by JK, CJR on Wed 15 Feb 2012 at 06:35 PM
I don't think "ad hominem" is the right name for Mark H's remark.
What's the latin phrase for "I know you are but what am I"?
#5 Posted by Alden, CJR on Wed 15 Feb 2012 at 07:51 PM
The phrase you want is:
Ego teneo vos es tamen quis sum ego
That's about the sum total of Mike H's repertoire. He's a troll.
#6 Posted by James, CJR on Wed 15 Feb 2012 at 09:24 PM
Excellent article about the intimidation of the right wing party by the right wing media they helped build.
And yeah, it goes without saying that if these guys can intimidate their macho allies into dog like subservience, it can certainly whip many journalists into line through these tactics so that they avoid the stories these idiots don't like.
Like Global Warming, as Gingrich recently experienced here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHYhovvLQyc
The major problem with America today is that one party, just one, is quite insane... and it's at war with the rest of America for not going along with the insanity 150%.
There is no reasoning with these people. There is no compromising with these people. Even if the representatives wanted to, they couldn't because the people who fund the right, and flood the right with disinformation, would not let them, as Bob Inglis found out.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/08/bob-inglis-tea-party-casualty
The right stopped having to be fair with Reagan, stopped having to be sane with Clinton, and stopped having to care about the greater interests of the nation with Bush. None of this would be a problem were it not for one thing, the intimidation network prevents necessary challenges to its actors - resulting in people who pay no penalty for being wrong or crazy EVER.
In fact the people who pay the penalty are the ones who do care about the country, who are sane, and who do try to be fair. They get ferrets like Andrew Breitbart and Roger Stone going through their garbage while Ann Coulter jokes how much better they'd look in a columbian necktie.
You cannot run a civil democracy where this kind of politics is considered standard operating practice by 30% of the population, acceptable enough to ignore by most of the media, and to frightening to speak up about on a regular basis by all but a few.
This is a courageous piece. I hope you're ready to endure opponents with no concept of shame.
#7 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 12:28 AM
Speaking of people without shame, it has got to suck that this lady:
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/02/13/424239/fox-women-miliary-expect-raped/
makes sure we all know she's a Columbia Journalism alumni. These people, and the channel they're on, are awful.
#8 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 12:34 AM
'Left Wing Discipline Machine's control of the media message'...sorry I'm still laughing...SUCH victims the right are.
#9 Posted by SYSPROG, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 09:32 AM
Interesting comments, most of which parrot the drive-by media's kneeling at the altar of the invincible (in their eyes) American Idol, currently residing at1600 Pa. After three years of this, is your leg still twitching?
#10 Posted by Pat McKelvey, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 12:10 PM
Excellent article, but I disagree with this:
Limbaugh, who invented the modern right-wing talk radio format and spawned a generation of imitators...
Limbaugh didn't invent squat. Even in his first political gig he replaced Morton Downey, Jr. who, along with other wingers like Bob Grant, were first responsible for our current plague of right-wing hate. It was Reagan's repeal of the Fairness Doctrine that enabled Limbaugh to move to WABC in New York and nationalize his fetid spew.
#11 Posted by R. Porrofatto, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 12:25 PM
Thimbles wrote:
"You cannot run a civil democracy where this kind of politics is considered standard operating practice by 30% of the population, acceptable enough to ignore by most of the media, and to frightening to speak up about on a regular basis by all but a few."
You mean like what happened to Joe the Plumber after he dared to speak up?
#12 Posted by Dave E., CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 02:07 PM
Thimbles, I believe Joe The Plumber was given air time and invited to world tours, on behalf of the Right.
Joe's central premise to Obama, however, was factually flawed. He did not understand enough about business to distinguish between $250,000 in business revenue and $250,000 in personal revenue that comes after all expenses are deducted. In addition, Joe's central theme was that there should be no progressive taxation, that is, the waiter and the billionaire should pay the same tax because anything else is 'punishing success'. The fact that McCain embraced this conclusion of Joe W.'s was ignored by the press.
#13 Posted by JohnJay60, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 02:33 PM
"Interesting comments, most of which parrot the drive-by media's kneeling at the altar of the invincible (in their eyes) American Idol, currently residing at1600 Pa. After three years of this, is your leg still twitching?
#10 Posted by Pat McKelvey on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 12:10 PM"
This comment is beat read in Limbaugh's arrogant, know-it-all tone of voice. Other than that, it's just the usual rightwing word-salad.
#14 Posted by Al Swearengen, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 02:56 PM
@ R. Porrofatto
Fred Friendly, former president of CBS News and co-creator of “See It Now”, wrote about the Fairness Doctrine in his 1977 book “The good guys, the bad guys and the first amendment“. One of the real gems from the book was a quote from Assistant Secretary of Commerce for JFK, Bill Ruder, in which he had this to say about how the Fairness Doctrine was used.” Our massive strategy [in the early 1960s] was to use the Fairness Doctrine to challenge and harass right-wing broadcasters and hope that the challenges would be so costly to them that they would be inhibited and decide it was too expensive to continue”
Some might see that sort of abuse as a flaw in the Fairness Doctrine, others including you see it as a feature.
Back to the original point of the article I suppose. Alder’s point is that the Right Wing Media has too much influence over conservative politicians in maintaining message discipline.
Its extremely hypocritical for Alter to sit up on his high horse in his gleaming white ivory/glass tower and throw stones at the Right Wing Press for its emphasis on message discipline when he was a part of an underground secretive mail list that sought to … wait for it, here’s the best part … increase message discipline among liberal journalists/academics/writers.
You know, its like David Brock and his MMFA megaphone lecturing America on the evils of private firearm ownership when Brock’s bodyguard had a CCL and carried illegally in Washington DC (to fight off those legions of right wing assassins to be sure). Or like how “Reverend” Al Sharpton criticized fellow MSNBC anchor Patrick Buchanan for his racially insensitivity (to which the left wing press outlets jumped on that bandwagon) while developing a raging case of selective amnesia as to who started the riot at Freddy’ Fashion Mart in which the gunman died and several were badly injured. I guess it goes to show that being a good liberal means never having to say you are sorry.
But I think the question left unexamined by Alter is the why. Why does the conservative press have so much influence over the GOP? It should be clear that after alienating a plurality of Americans for decades, the mainstream press just isn’t trusted by conservatives and with good reason. You can’t piss on people’s beliefs and values and then ask why they don’t listen to you and don’t respect you. People like Limbaugh fill the void that your arrogance has made.
So I say it again: Journalist heal thy self.
#15 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 03:06 PM
Mike H does not know what hypocrisy is.
#16 Posted by Pete, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 04:44 PM
"Our massive strategy [in the early 1960s] was to use the Fairness Doctrine to challenge and harass right-wing broadcasters and hope that the challenges would be so costly to them that they would be inhibited and decide it was too expensive to continue"
Where's the problem in that? Idiots who present only a deeply deceptive side of the issues and demonize their opposition to the extent that their audience thinks it okay to threaten lives, if not assassinate them? I don't find costing them money and making them inhibited as a bad thing.
I'm sure you'd appreciate if the Southern Poverty Law Center stopped pushing legal suits against racist organizations, forcing them into bankruptcy, and that they continue to do must seem "that sort of abuse as a flaw" in the civil legal system. Some might disagree on a perfectly reasonable basis.
"Its extremely hypocritical for Alter blah blah when he was a part of an underground secretive mail list that did the same thing they do every night, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD! "
Jesus Christ, you are still talking about the going out for virtual beers newsgroup Journolist? Don't you have enough on your plate with the Bilderberg Group and the lizards? You poor, tortured soul.
"You can’t piss on people’s beliefs and values and then ask why they don’t listen to you and don’t respect you."
Hey conservatives, we thought women should have equal rights and choices. You blew up their clinics. We thought minorities should have equal rights and choices. You blew up their churches. We thought workers should have rights and protections. You sent out thugs and shooters. We believed in a social net to protect the most vulnerable and prevent the radicalization of societies we saw during the Great Depression and the Great War that followed. You sent out Joe McCarthy to call us unamerican and take our careers away. You call us demons, traitors, seditious, Marxist, terrorist, and a crap load of other names to twiddle your fancy.
We don't do that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVoZUo17PLg
But we should. You scum bags sent our economy into a tailspin by deregulating the banks and making anti-government idiots your regulators. You wasted lives and resources in an unplanned war which you demanded we cheer for while you used "war time" powers to tear great holes into constitutional individual liberties.
You put incompetents and authoritarians into power who were unparalleled at corruption:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15453.htm
and you continue to do so with people like Rick Scott and other felons because you don't care for your country, your democracy, individual liberties, true small government... you care for nothing except for winners and losers. You care about the coddling of winners and the torture of losers.
You people, who deny evolution so that the truly stupid can believe you're one of them and give you their vote, follow the dictates of social darwinism. You believe that society should work for the benefit of the winners and anyone in a lower caste should shut up or take the pepper spray.
And it would be okay that you piss on our beliefs and values constantly if you were right once in a while, but you're not. You're always wrong and always unashamed about it. And every time we try to fix the damage you've done to the country and the world, you complain about POLICE STATE! HILTER! SCIENTIFIC HOAX!
STFU, you reality challenged psychopaths. The world will be better off once you've crawled back into the Birch society closet you burst from.
#17 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 05:11 PM
Where's the problem in that? Idiots who present only a deeply deceptive side of the issues and demonize their opposition to the extent that their audience thinks it okay to threaten lives, if not assassinate them? I don't find costing them money and making them inhibited as a bad thing.
I suppose there really inst a problem with that. After all, don’t all open minded liberals salivate at thought of using the government to undermine partisan political opposition through the tools of statutory law and the bureaucracy? Sad thing about that last line of mine is its supposed to be sarcastic, but given the track record of the left it much closer to reality than fiction. I like the assassination bit BTW …. great way to slip Arthur Schlesinger Jr’s take on the Kennedy slayings into the post except for the little “inconvenient truth” that JFK was killed by a communist and RFK was killed by a Palestinian.
But, if you “objective” is to legally assault groups and organizations that advance a “deeply deceptive side of the issues and demonize their opposition to the extent that their audience thinks it okay to threaten lives, if not assassinate them” when are we going to file the class action against the Nation Magazine?
I'm sure you'd appreciate if the Southern Poverty Law Center stopped pushing legal suits against racist organizations, forcing them into bankruptcy, and that they continue to do must seem "that sort of abuse as a flaw" in the civil legal system. Some might disagree on a perfectly reasonable basis.
I would appreciate it thank you. As long as the organizations aren’t engaged in illegal activities, there’s no reason a open and tolerant society can’t make room for them. It seems that the old adage of “I disagree of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” has been transformed by the left into “I disagree of what you say, and I will crush you in the courts and through the organs of popular culture if you dare say it”.
Quite progressive, I must say.
Jesus Christ, you are still talking about the going out for virtual beers newsgroup Journolist? Don't you have enough on your plate with the Bilderberg Group and the lizards? You poor, tortured soul.
Virtual beers …. that’s certainly how they spun. After all just some “non-partisan” academics and journalists getting together to kick ideas around, certainly no coordination. Luckily for them their cronies in the press and their brain dead constituency lapped it up.
Hey conservatives, we thought women should have equal rights and choices. so we financed/encouraged/popularized the murder of 40 million unborn turning it into the most sacred of left wing sacraments. We thought minorities should have equal rights and choices. so we rallied with them when they went on killing sprees (radical chic), destroyed their communities with welfare, and placed them in positions they weren’t qualified for in the name of affirmative action . We thought workers should have rights and protections. so we saw to it that a librarian in California could retire after 20 years on $150,000K/year. We believed in a social net to protect the most vulnerable and prevent the radicalization of societies we saw during the Great Depression and the Great War that followedso we decided to put in place a massive entitlement program which is bankrupting America. You sent out Joe McCarthy to call us unamerican and take our careers away all because we gave the secrets of the Atomic bomb to the Soviet Union and passed millions of classified documents to them and worked from position of power and influence within the government/media/academia to facilitate the Soviet’s rise while our fellow travelers made every excuse they could for us
Hmmm … something must have happened with the cut and paste on that one … better call tech support.
You call us demon
#18 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 06:02 PM
"Next subject for Mr. Adler: The Left Wing Discipline Machine's control of the media message on such subjects as immigration, where everyone who says something with which the left and neoconservatives such as Frum disagree is labeled a racist.
-newspaperman
@Newspaperman: If you think that there is an equivalent of this in the Left, I'd like to see an example of it. We on the Left often WISH we could influence Democratic politicians in the same manner that the Right can.
#19 Posted by Ufotofu9, CJR on Thu 16 Feb 2012 at 08:26 PM
"I suppose there really inst a problem with that. After all, don’t all open minded liberals salivate at thought of using the government to undermine partisan political opposition through the tools of statutory law and the bureaucracy?"
Well, no. But when there is a rule on the books as weak as the fairness doctrine and when the broadcasters are given license to use public airwaves on the condition that they follow the rules, and they don't, then they've earned a consequence.
I mean it's not as serious as the right's undermining of partisan political opposition by, I don't know, breaking into their watergate headquarters, spreading lies about and passing legislation condemning Acorn and moveon, breaking unions through anti union laws and the unenforcement of labor laws, etc..
Did it kill broadcasters to include just a little programming from the other side with their I suppose there really inst a problem with their Father Coughlin?
Yeah, talk to me about track records.
"when are we going to file the class action against the Nation Magazine?"
When the nation gets a broadcast license and violates broadcast rules or when their rhetoric results in a bombing in Oklahoma, then you can do up a suit.
“I disagree of what you say, and I will crush you in the courts and through the organs of popular culture if you dare say it”
Projection is your strong suit.
"Virtual beers …. that’s certainly how they spun. "
Yeah, that's how they were. Unlike say ALEC which has been working on multiple state governments to get repressive legislation passed:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/02/417488/florida-gop-alec-forget/
In fact unlike most of the crap on the right since the Powell memo. One more case of the right screaming "Isn't it terrible how the left is doing what the right has been doing all along? Have they no sense of decency?" Which again wouldn't be a problem if the accusations were right.
"we financed/encouraged/popularized the murder of 40 million unborn"
This is just brain dead. Show me you've given this topic a little more thought than that, because that's not worth a response as is.
"so we rallied with them when they went on killing sprees"
you know, the killing spree business weighed a little heavier on the segregationist side.
"destroyed their communities with welfare"
Brain dead. You destroyed the jobs, then they took the welfare. Destroying jobs and community groups like Acorn destroyed communities.
"and placed them in positions they weren’t qualified for in the name of affirmative action "
I thought we were talking about minorities, not young republicans and legacy university graduates. OH! You weren't talking about hiring qualifications during the bush administration. Sorry, I thought your beef was this decade.
"a librarian in California"
Sorry, I didn't know librarians were public safety officials.
"we decided to put in place a massive entitlement program which is bankrupting America"
Yeah, the problem isn't tax cuts, recessions, and wars. It's only the things republicans don't like. Republicans are children, you see.
"worked from position of power and influence within the government/media/academia to facilitate the Soviet’s rise"
Let's assume this is true. Then what you are saying is that “I disagree of what you say, and I will crush you in the courts and through the organs of popular culture if you dare say it”
You want to know what hypocrisy is? Defending Joe McCarthy while deploring supposed attacks on free speech by liberals is total hypocrisy. No shame ever.
#20 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 17 Feb 2012 at 04:33 AM
On the topic of hypocrisy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/17/opinion/krugman-moochers-against-welfare.html
"Many readers of The Times were, therefore, surprised to learn, from an excellent article published last weekend, that the regions of America most hooked on Mr. Santorum’s narcotic — the regions in which government programs account for the largest share of personal income — are precisely the regions electing those severe conservatives. Wasn’t Red America supposed to be the land of traditional values, where people don’t eat Thai food and don’t rely on handouts?...
But why do regions that rely on the safety net elect politicians who want to tear it down?...
Cornell University’s Suzanne Mettler points out that many beneficiaries of government programs seem confused about their own place in the system. She tells us that 44 percent of Social Security recipients, 43 percent of those receiving unemployment benefits, and 40 percent of those on Medicare say that they “have not used a government program.”
Presumably, then, voters imagine that pledges to slash government spending mean cutting programs for the idle poor, not things they themselves count on. And this is a confusion politicians deliberately encourage."
And the blame for this confusion isn't the politicians alone. It belongs to the conservative media which purposely confuses its audience for political gain, it belongs to the political press which encourages the carnie act on their shows and in their reporting - often refusing to challenge the republicans lest "newsbusters" says something mean about them (not to mention omitting details like the words "republican filibuster" from stories on the broken legislative process), and it belongs to the fact checkers who increasingly lose their ability to do math when a conservative topic comes up.
Democracy cannot function in an environment where institutions purposefully keep the citizens misinformed.
Ps. It looks like an artifact from a cut and paste job got stuck in one of my paragraphs above. Should have read:
"Did it kill broadcasters to include just a little programming from the other side to go with their Father Coughlin?"
#21 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 17 Feb 2012 at 02:55 PM
Democracy cannot function in an environment where institutions purposefully keep the citizens misinformed.
TRANSLATION: Let the Gubmit have the power to decide what iinformation "institutions" will be permitted to disseminate.
That damned First Amendment thing is always getting in the way of the Utopian commie crack dream...
#22 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 18 Feb 2012 at 03:28 PM
"TRANSLATION: Let the Gubmit have the power to decide what iinformation "institutions" will be permitted to disseminate."
You mean like under the Bush administration, where if you reported the truth and/or asked tough questions you had your press pass tossed and the right wing discipline machine turned loose on you?
Can you, pretty please, stop being an idiot?
What I said was that there was a near system wide collapse in reporting the truth in American affairs because the right wing can get away with saying and doing near anything without political cost and while going pitbull on the rest of America.
That scares the weak journalistic institutions into playing along with republican framing even though it's often false and a joke to boot.
The left wing then can't make its points on 'centrist' shows without this kind of retarded bs showing up.
All of which means American viewers do not get an honest recounting of the facts nor an honest debate of the facts because the institutions we rely on for this lack the courage to do so.
I'm not asking for a "government takeover of the news", idiot, I'm asking for a little institutional courage from news organizations so we don't have repeats of this crap.
I know I can't ask for more decency from the "Lee Atwater:Willie Horton" network or its emulators because scumbags who hate america have little decency to give.
So all I ask for is that the real journalistic enterprises start opposing and reporting on those America haters who are willing to regularly lie to their fellow citizens without apology, instead of giving in to them and hiding.
Because "Democracy cannot function in an environment where institutions purposefully keep the citizens misinformed."
#23 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 04:36 AM
Thimbles whines: Because "Democracy cannot function in an environment where institutions purposefully keep the citizens misinformed."
padikiller responds: Yes it can.
The Catholic church preaches that 10% of its saints defied gravity and levitated.
Christianity in general preaches all kinds of patent silliness.
Islam preaches that martyrs earn virgins in Paradise.
Judaism preaches that bushes sing and donkeys talk.
The CJR "watchdogs" preach that the Republicans are trying to kill Medicare and that there exists a pre-1970 typewriter somewhere capable of creating the ridiculous "TANG" memo that Dan Rather tried to tank Bush with.
Warmingists everywhere claim the Earth is warming, when it hasn't warmed in 15 years.
The IPCC claims that Himalayan glaciers will be gone by 2035 and all kinds of other silly commie nonsense.
You and your intolerant liberal buddies have a selective tolerance for misinformation.
#24 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 12:11 PM
"The Catholic church preaches that 10% of its saints defied gravity and levitated."
And this is a) a liberal issue how? b) an issue which influences the policy that govern democracy how?
"Christianity in general preaches all kinds of patent silliness."
Like heal the sick and feed the poor and stone the gays and hate thy fellow citizens.
Wait, which silliness was the leftist libs again?
"The CJR "watchdogs" preach that the Republicans are trying to kill Medicare"
They are. Given a choice between taxes and medicare, which are republicans always going to cut?
"there exists a pre-1970 typewriter somewhere capable of creating the ridiculous "TANG" memo that Dan Rather tried to tank Bush with."
You're an idiot. The letters were a forgery according to the lady who typed the originals. The content of the letters was genuine, according to the lady who typed the originals. And, again, I don't see many policies being set based on the Jillian memos.
"Warmingists everywhere claim the Earth is warming, when it hasn't warmed in 15 years."
An excellent example of misinformation which prevents a democracy from functioning based on the desires of informed citizens and not idiocy.
You're a liar. Go tell the arctic the earth has not been warming.
"The IPCC claims that Himalayan glaciers will be gone by 2035 and all kinds of other silly commie nonsense."
Funny how that mistake gets corrected and people instantly stop repeating it, but bs like your "no scientifically significant statistical warming for 15 years" never stops getting repeated even though it's just as wrong. Why it's like one side doesn't care about being right as long as the lie works! Is democracy served well by institutions that care about winning political battles based on repeated falsehoods and intimidation? Is utopia better fashioned on the whims and resistance of ignorant citizens who've spent their lives in the conservative fox pen?
"You and your intolerant liberal buddies have a selective tolerance for misinformation."
Yeah, I guess we tolerate ignorance and misinformation in religious belief systems (according to you) which have little influence on policy whereas you encourage ignorance and misinformation in religious systems, science, social science and economics, history, Clint Eastwood commercials, etc.. where it can have influence on policy and political attitudes.
And the problem with that is you end up talking about idiotic things and relying on repeated known lies to support the idiocy. Democracies do not function effectively based on the consent of an idiotic, misinformed populus. Unfortunately, in today's America, that means we have to call these lying idiots who hate America out. Where has one sided civility gotten us?
#25 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 04:55 PM
Call them out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcKqy8Qek8A
Because when we don't, we have to refight this shit:
http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/a-lack-of-a-culture-war-truce-in-one-graph/
They had their shot in the wake of 9-11 to run the country as they wanted and they tanked it in a way that will take a generation or two to dig out.
Conservative media wants the population to forget that history so they can blame all their problems on liberals and get the ranks of the stupid and the deceived to vote for them.
And when we call them out, they decry us for being uncivil and mean. They get to send their idiot madmen out to shoot us and then they get to complain about how unseemly and radical we are for getting upset by it. They get to stomp over all our values and destroy all our institutions (unions, access to birth control, stable financial sector) and then complain about how victimized they are.
They are lying scumbags who hate Americans and the vision of an America that benefits the many over the few. Cont.
#26 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 06:07 PM
If you let them dominate the discussion, it will be to the detriment to the many and the few. Ultimately, these people are self destructive.
#27 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 06:10 PM
Thimbles wrote: You're a liar. Go tell the arctic the earth has not been warming.
padikiller responds: I'll let Warmingist-in-Chief, IPCC lead author Phil Jones do it in his interview with the BBC's environment analyst Roger Harrabin:
Harrabin: Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming
Jones: Yes, but only just.
What part of "yes you not comprehend, Thimbo?
This was hard admission for a "dispassionate scientist" (who wants more global warming to wipe the "smug grins" from faces of his critics) to make, after all.
How about this?
The supposed ‘consensus’ on man-made global warming is facing an inconvenient challenge after the release of new temperature data showing the planet has not warmed for the past 15 years.
The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.
#28 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 06:59 PM
Thimbles wrote: "If you let them dominate the discussion, it will be to the detriment to the many and the few."
padikiller responds: So we don't "let" anyone dominate the discussion? For the common good, right?
Leftie silliness always comes down to censorship and intolerance.
You made the rather ridiculous claim that democracy can't exist when institutions disseminate misinformation... And I shot your nonsense down with a few pulls of the Reality Bell's rope by providing examples of institutional stupidity that coexists happily in our democratic society.
I could do it all day... Bigfoot... Global Warming.. UFO's... CJR's contention that the SEC is "running out the clock" on fraud prosecutions... Etc., etc, etc.
#29 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 07:35 PM
"You made the rather ridiculous claim that democracy can't exist when institutions disseminate misinformation."
Actual claim: "Democracy cannot function in an environment where institutions purposefully keep the citizens misinformed."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o
And thus concludes yet another stupid conversation with padipus.
#30 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 08:20 PM
More news that shows that the commie Global Warimingism nonsense is falling apart:
Sea Levels Haven't Risen in Two Years.
So... Sea levels haven't risen in two years... The average global temperature hasn't increased since 1997... And the Artic sea ice has been growing since 2007.
So much for the Warmingism BS.
AGW is going the way of cold fusion and phlogiston. Finally.
#31 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 09:25 PM
Frank Luntz on how bitter and partisan politics has become:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/21/1066898/-Luntz-Jokes-About-Killing-Obama-Bemoans-Bitter-Partisan-Divide-Nearby-Dogs-Bark-Mysteriously
""I actually have a 'Run, Barack, Run,' bumper-sticker but I put it on the front of my car," he continued."
Oh yeah, it's all the liberal's fault. 'Class warfare' is so vulgar, mean, and bitter.
Did I mention these guys are scumbags?
Meanwhile:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/americans-elect-third-party_b_1288110.html
"The deadlock preventing solutions to America's real problems is not the result of a symmetrical partisan stand-off. Republicans are surely farther to the right than any mainstream party in American history, but today's Democrats are hardly left-wing. The policy stalemate is simply the consequence of Republicans blocking everything Obama proposes.
We already have a centrist party. It's called the Democrats. Obama's Democrats are to the right of Richard Nixon on most domestic economic issues. If Democrats had not joined Republicans in financial deregulation, we never would have had the economic collapse of 2008.
Contrary to the claims of Friedman, Peterson, and Walker, what ails America is not the long term budget projections of Social Security or even Medicare, but the continuing knock-on effects of the financial collapse of 2007-2008. The weakness of the housing sector, combined with lagging wages and persistently high unemployment, is leading to a prolonged period of deflation. More fiscal austerity would only make things worse...
As the Friedman column suggests, a lot of the pundit class laps up this "radical-center" malarkey. The Washington Post editorial page has been an ongoing commercial for fiscal austerity, and Walker has generally gotten a very respectful press. It was the influence of the deficit hawks that pushed Obama into appointing the late and little-lamented Bowles Simpson commission, which in turn compelled the president to waste nearly a year obsessing about budget balance when he should have stayed focused on recovery.
The combination of bad economic advice, a ballot slot bought and paid for by secretive private equity and hedge fund players, and a candidate who became a media figure courtesy of Peter G. Peterson, epitomizes everything messed up about our politics. How fitting that Tom Friedman should be its tribune."
Hey press pundits, there's some facts here. When you get a chance, maybe report some of them.
#32 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 04:05 PM
Goddamn the 'centrist'-man:
http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/where_is_the_climate_middle.php
"There is a great debate taking place this week, for instance, about which individuals and positions accurately represent the “middle” of the debate over climate change. It began with an article that Revkin wrote for last Tuesday’s Science section about three new books that represent what he calls “the pragmatic center on climate and energy.” The book are by Bjorn Lomborg...; Newt Gingrich...; and finally Ted [who cares].
On Wednesday, David Roberts, a columnist for Grist magazine and another prominent journalist in environmental media circles, slammed Revkin for identifying Lomborg and Gingrich as “centrist.” It is a “preposterous claim,” Roberts wrote in a column that was posted on both Grist and The Huffington Post. "
Boy do I love me a centrist. Centrists were great during the whole climategate debacle that turned out to be nothing. Centrists were awesome during the whole "Breitbart/O'Keefe stings == the new journalism" media phase.
Publishing stolen emails? Impersonating someone you're not to get information? Not a problem from the right wing. I don't know if it's because we expect zealots to go the extra mile, but we don't have a problem with their tactics from them. (And nor would I if they were telling the goddamn truth.)
But when it comes to liberals, the guys who are supposed to be ethical and cerebral?
This is the BS we can expect.
Revkin: "Now, Gleick has admitted to an act that leaves his reputation in ruins and threatens to undercut the cause he spent so much time pursuing. His summary, just published on his blog at Huffington Post, speaks for itself. You can read his short statement below with a couple of thoughts from me"
No, I don't think I will, you tool.
Why? Because I don't f'in care about the ethics of these tactics. You and you're kin approved them when you reported on climategate "nature tricks" and Acorn "sex brothels". Peter Gleick did not represent the Heartland Institute. He tricked them into giving him documents which confirmed the content of a document he received anonymously, a document which was likely stolen.
Which leads to this in the centrist scumbag press:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/02/21/heartland-affair-and-climategate-share-common-thread-always-blame-the-climate-scientists/
"Gleick apologized for the lapse in judgment, and of course the Heartland Institute and its allies in combat want more than a pound of flesh. But the major difference between this situation and Climategate, as far as I can see it, is that Gleick admitted to the conduct, while the hackers who stole the Climategate emails haven’t. So the focus was kept on the emails in Climategate [or their mischaracterization by climate change deniers], but the focus is only on the acquisition of the emails in the Heartland Institute affair.
This is the kind of asymmetrical warfare we see constantly in the climate change battle. It’s actually explicitly covered in the Heartland strategy documents. The right attacks and attacks and attacks and has no interest in getting tripped up by ethics or hypocrisy. The scientific community bends and begs and self-criticizes. And we see the results; climate denial is a fast-growing industry in America, and the public doubts the facts behind climate change now more than ever."
We expect the right to be lying rabid fanatics. We don't expect the centrists to enable them.
Apply the same standards of truth and conduct to all sides or STFU. That means standing up to right wing bullies as well as you do to scientists, you cowards.
#33 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 08:33 PM
Time to toll the REALITY BELL again:
The supposed ‘consensus’ on man-made global warming is facing an inconvenient challenge after the release of new temperature data showing the planet has not warmed for the past 15 years.
The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.
I think people will start caring about Global Warming... If and when the globe starts warming.
Until then, the raving, collectivist leftist lunatics (who can no longer be called "commies" under Pravda's... er, I mean CJR's new comment censorship policy) will thrash their limbs and gnash their teeth like this.
The truth hurts sometimes.
#34 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 08:50 PM
"Peter Gleick did not represent the Heartland Institute. "
Should have read before autocorrect: "Peter Gleick did not misrepresent the Heartland Institute."
He didn't lie about them or their documents, unlike what the heartland institute did during Climategate, in fact he sought corroborating evidence.
More here: http://www.desmogblog.com/whistleblower-authenticates-heartland-documents
#35 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 08:55 PM
I don't know what you are trying to prove with your "watt's up with dat" and "delingpole post" links, but what you are proving is that stupid people rely on stupid sources.
Ps. Genius, the solar minimums in your dellingpole mail link, even if they were true, do not disprove the global warming effect of co2 and other gases. That's like using blue skies when the weather's sunny to prove stars don't exist during the day.
#36 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 10:23 PM
Ding! Ding!
One more time with the Reality Bell!
BBC's environment analyst Roger Harrabin: "Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming?"
IPCC Lead Author and Warmingist-in-Chief Phil Jones: "Yes, but only just.
Deal with it, Thimbo....
There hasn't been any global warming in the last 15 years.
P E R I O D.
This is just the undeniable (if inconvenient) absolute and irrefutable truth.
This is why the "dispassionate scientist" Jones (who claims publicly that runaway global warming is a threat to our very existence) privately conceded that he wanted to see rapid warming to "wipe the smug grins" from the faces of his critics.
You guys would have an easier time persuading the masses to give a crap about global warming if the Earth was actually, you know, like warming or something.
#37 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 10:36 PM
"The Left Wing Discipline Machine"
Yes, indeed, the media would never allow anybody criticizing Obama for being too conservative,
#38 Posted by gzuckier, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 10:47 PM
Oh good, another science lesson from somebody who thinks that "there has been no statistically-significant global warming" means "There hasn't been any global warming in the last 15 years. P E R I O D." I'll be sure to refer all the denailists who say 'Everyone agrees that the climate is warming, but it's not proved that it's anthropogenic" to you.
What's funny is the automatic regurgitation of this rightwing shibboleth in response to an article on how the rightwing maintains message discipline.
#39 Posted by gzuckier, CJR on Tue 21 Feb 2012 at 11:28 PM
"Oh good, another science lesson from somebody who thinks that "there has been no statistically-significant global warming" means "There hasn't been any global warming in the last 15 years. P E R I O D."
He's been corrected on this topic once or twice:
http://www.cjr.org/search.php?&q=Scientifically+significant+warming
But if you don't care about being factually right, and the right wing doesn't since it "attacks and attacks and attacks and has no interest in getting tripped up by ethics or hypocrisy", then your efforts to correct fall wayside. There is just no fixing some broken minds.
You'll never convince Padi, he's an idiot, but you can prevent other people from contracting his idiocy.
And centrists expect us to have respectful dialogs with folks and well funded organizations like him. They can be lying, disrespectful, scumbags but we're the ones who get the tsk tsks for being rude and violating the centrists' selectively enforced decorum. They expect better from us.
Learn to expect a kick in the ass, center. If you yellow bastards can't learn to help us solve problems, then you are the problem.
#40 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 22 Feb 2012 at 12:10 AM
Looks like we need another tug on the REALITY BELL'S pull rope!
I'm here to serve, fellas!
As you can see... The Earth in 2011 was, according to NASA, COOLER than it was in 1998.
From 1998 to present, in point of irrefutable, undeniable FACT, the Earth has experienced 0.07 degrees of GLOBAL COOLING, according to NASA's datasets.
EGAD!
Do the math! 0.07 degrees in 13 years means an average annual temperature decrease of 0.005384615 degrees per year!..
Think of the parrots! Think of the spider monkeys! What can we do to keep the rain forests from freezing into tundra!
We need to burn coal, and we need to do it fast!
#41 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 22 Feb 2012 at 07:08 AM
Oh look! Actual science!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110918144941.htm
And let's pretend carbon just started not to green house gas anymore because it got bored with that scientific property, there are other problems with carbon accumulation.
http://www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca/2012/02/18/ocean-acidification-turns-climate-change-winners-into-losers-ubc-research/
#42 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 22 Feb 2012 at 01:14 PM