I like this Wall Street Journal piece today looking at the odds of entering a depression, what that would mean, and what it would look like. I think we need more of this forward-looking stuff asking where we might be headed and spelling out what that might mean.
Here’s the lede for the page-two piece:
In the wake of the biggest financial shock since 1929, economists say the odds of a depression are less than 50-50 — though still uncomfortably high.
The amazing thing for me is I only had a very tiny vestigial bit of shock reading that. Somehow the capacity for startling, though grievously wounded, is still lurking in my brain even after all the events of the last eighteen months.
It’s long been interesting that there’s no real definition of a “depression” beyond the old saw about it’s a recession if your neighbor loses his job and a depression if you do. Defining depression is like defining obscenity—you know it when you see it.
But there are some non-official rules of thumb, reporter Justin Lahart writes:
There is no consensus definition for “depression.” Harvard University economist Robert Barro defines it as a decline in per-person economic output or consumption of more than 10%, and puts the odds of a depression at about 20%. Many economic historians say the line between recession and depression is crossed when unemployment rises above 10% and stays there for several years.
Sounds reasonable.
But then Lahart writes:
The current recession, though severe, is not at depression levels now. Unemployment in February was at 8.1%, not as bad as in the early 1980s — the last time the idea of a depression was being kicked around seriously, when it remained over 10% for 10 months. In the Great Depression it reached 25%.
But real unemployment is almost certainly worse than 8.1 percent. It’s hard to compare current employment statistics to past ones because the government has changed the way it calculates unemployment. It now doesn’t include people who have given up trying to find work. Plus, changes in how business employee people have made it harder to calculate unemployment.
Fifteen years ago, the Bureau of Labor Statistics quit counting people who stopped looking for work in the previous month. As Haley Sweetland Edwards wrote over at Campaign Desk last month:
That change in definition is particularly important because we’ve seen lots of comparisons between unemployment today and unemployment in the early ’90s. But, since the definition of “unemployment” has changed in the meantime, it’s an apples and oranges situation.
A more accurate number for our 21st century economy may be the U-6, which includes the people counted in the conventional unemployment figure, plus the “hard-core unemployed” who’ve given up looking, as well as those only able to find part-time work. That number stands at 14.8 percent, up 5.3 percentage points from a year ago.
Another problem with comparing unemployment to the levels reached in the 1930s and 1980s is that we’re comparing to those downturns’ peak rates. We don’t know yet where unemployment will peak in this one. Comparing our current recession to when the Great Depression started, we’re only to early 1931 at this point, when unemployment hit 15 percent. The rate didn’t peak until two years later, at 25 percent (The Journal does have a decent chart attached to the story overlaying employment and other economic trends with those of the Depression).
But as Lahart writes, there are reasons to believe we won’t see 25 percent unemployment:
Paul Kasriel of Northern Trust put the odds of a depression at just 1% because of the aggressive lending by the Federal Reserve and the fiscal stimulus just beginning to hit the economy. “There are just too many powerful countercyclical policies in place that will prevent the worst-case scenario,” he says.
Today’s government response is a far cry from the early 1930s, when the Fed raised interest rates, the infamous Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act crushed trade and Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon’s prescription for the economy was “liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate.”

Playing around with unemployment and other stats to distinguish between a recession and a depression seems a bit arbitrary to me. Recessions are fairly easy, as zero crossings are quite obvious, but exactly which other numbers might consitute crossing a new line into depression? Wouldn't that be merely opinion?
To my mind, of course we would need to see some fairly bad numbers, but more importantly we should also see a significant and systemic banking failure. This indeed crosses a new and easily identifiable line; that is, that traditional recovery tools no longer hold sway within the market.
As for the inability to compare unemployment (and other economic) numbers due to rule changes, check out John Williams' Shadow Stats web site. The guy makes a living undoing these rule changes and recalculating the results. And no, he doesn't come up with 8.1%.
#1 Posted by Benedict@Large, CJR on Tue 31 Mar 2009 at 01:15 AM
Skills. This is manifested in volleyball in the specific skills. Among the specific issues:
- Eye coordination and eye-cup antrebrat;
- Sense of ball and players;
- Ambidextrous;
- Reproductive capacity and management of movement
- Analytical motility (fingers, hands)
Conditions for specific skill education:
- Improving the volume ambidextriei reps with 25% higher
made by hand and foot awkwardly;
- Modification of natural skills;
- Dinpozitii practice and in ever changing conditions;
- Tactical action with pronounced (precision, anticipation)
- "Break" the typical stereotype of some specific skills.http://www.jocuri-logice.net - jocuri logice
Force. Educating the general force must always combined with the specific. Among the manifestations of the general workforce, mention absolute power and explosive
force. Volleyball players must be educated in the preparation of all types, but particularly explosive force, which is very important. Among specific forms of manifestation of
force, the most important is the expansion. Specific strength combined with speed is also manifest in other situations: change direction of travel, the travel stop and powerful attack.
Gonna write here until you answer me to tell me that's the reason why I'm banned I do not get on the chat on Thursday night and now it's Saturday. I want one explanation!
#2 Posted by FJKenneth, CJR on Tue 24 May 2011 at 01:05 PM