We can all agree that the weather has been unseasonably warm this summer. But fewer people, including media types, agree on whether the high temperatures are a natural occurrence or a consequence of global warming.
Conservative commentator George Will said on ABC’s Sunday morning talk show This Week that it’s easy to explain the recent heat. “One word: summer,” he said adding, “We’re having some hot weather. Get over it.”
Will’s comments were ill-timed. On Wednesday, the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) released an overview of the climate in June, which confirmed that the average temperature for the US last month was two degrees above the 20th-century average. According to the report, that makes the last 12-month period the warmest the nation has experienced since recordkeeping began in 1895. Some outlets took the opportunity to publish charts and maps to visualize the record-breaking temperatures.
The June figures were part of a larger annual “state of the climate” report, released on Tuesday, in which the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration tried to work out whether various recent freak weather events were more likely to occur because of global warming. It found that last year’s Texan heatwave was 60 times more likely now than it was in the 1960s.
Using probability to calculate the likelihood that a weather event was caused by global warming is a new science, known as “probablistic event attribution”. But it’s already changing the way journalists talk about climate change, by lending them the scientific habit of never being definitive. That can have a damaging effect on the semantics journalists use to describe freak weather events, as David Roberts notes in a post on Grist. For example, we routinely say, “Smoking causes lung cancer,” even though, in some cases, smoking might not be the cause. We should be equally careful of our word choices when reporting on climate change, or skeptics can seize on the ambiguities.
In this case, even the odds are being debated. The NCDC put the likelihood of the heatwave occurring randomly at 1 in 1,594,323. As noted by Jason Samenow in the Washington Post, that number was refuted by a climate blogger named Lucia, who recalculated the odds as 1 in 10 (she later revised this to “less than 1 in 100,000”). Another atmospheric scientist, Michael Tobis of Planet3.org, said the NCDC figures were “excessively alarmist.”
As for George Will: this is not the first time he has denied the effects of climate change, and it seems to be earning him a bit of a reputation. Noam Schrieber, a senior editor at The New Republic, tweeted that Will’s comments were “just disgraceful,” among other things. A Texan environmental blog, Burnt Orange Report, called his comments “a blast of hot air.” Meanwhile OnEarth, an environmental magazine, responded to Will’s assertion with a string of temperature statistics prefaced by the headline: “Get Over THIS, George Will.”
Using probability to calculate the likelihood that a weather event was caused by global warming is a new science, known as “probablistic event attribution”. But it’s already changing the way journalists talk about climate change, by lending them the scientific habit of never being definitive.
Oh sweet Shiva ... why not just cut a pigeon open and examine its entrials for all the good climate forcasting is worth.
#1 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 02:13 PM
Weather forecasting != climate forecasting
Climate forecasting is much more robust, given a stable sun and a stable natural factors (excluding volcanoes and such).
I mean it sure would be nice if people would take the demands for rigor put to climate science and apply them to claims of right wing ideology, economics, and fiscal austerity.
Because man, talk about your faith based crapolly. At least climate has the excuse that it is working with a highly complex system where butterfly wings can alter results.
The results we're seeing can't be blamed on butterflies.
PS. from that post:
"I originally wrote in this post that "Each of the 13 months from June 2011 through June 2012 ranked among the warmest third of their historical distribution for the first time in the 1895 - present record. According to NCDC, the odds of this occurring randomly during any particular month are 1 in 1,594,323. Thus, we should only see one more 13-month period so warm between now and 124,652 AD--assuming the climate is staying the same as it did during the past 118 years."
It has been pointed out to me that the calculation of a 1 in 1.6 million chance of occurrence (based on taking the number 1/3 and raising it to the 13th power) would be true only if each month had no correlation to the next month. Since weather patterns tend to persist, they are not truly random from one month to the next. Thus, the odds of such an event occurring are greater than 1 in 1.6 million--but are still very rare."
#2 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 04:55 PM
Thimbles, I realize you have years if not decades of experience in computational modeling so it seems pointless for me to have to point out that whether you are modeling protein folding, plasma deposition rates on semiconductor substrates, structural element degradation via corrosion and vibration, turbulence across an airfoil, combustion characteristics inside a gas turbine, climate forecasting, or many if the hundreds of other applications … the methodology, principles, and the math of any computation model are all the same. So yes, weather forecasting (or any of the other examples I mentioned) does indeed equal climate forecasting.
However, with hundreds of interdependent feedback loops, many of which cannot be directly measured, determined only with proxy reconstructions, or are solely theoretical, comprehensive climate models have a level of complexity several orders of magnitude greater than any of the other examples I mentioned … which you, no doubt are well versed in.
You sarcastically refer to “faith based crapolly” on the one hand but seem to suspend any disbelief when a climatologist tells you with 99% certainty he knows what the mean global temperature will be in 100 years because he divined it from his CRAY oracle after feeding it reams of data.
And speaking of “science”:
The long-term trend now revealed in maximum latewood density data is in line with coupled general circulation models, indicating albedo-driven feedback mechanisms and substantial summer cooling over the past two millennia in northern boreal and Arctic latitudes. These findings, together with the missing orbital signature in published dendrochronological records, suggest that large-scale near-surface air-temperature reconstructions relying on tree-ring data may underestimate pre-instrumental temperatures including warmth during Medieval and Roman times.
The oracle has spoken and the science is settled: ALL HAIL M-F’IN SCIENCE! PRAISE BE TO HIS NAME
#3 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 05:43 PM
I like that last paragraph, where all the leftist-statists blast the rightist-statist. I mean, who knew there was such a consensus among statists! *smh*
#4 Posted by Dan A., CJR on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 05:47 PM
"So yes, weather forecasting (or any of the other examples I mentioned) does indeed equal climate forecasting."
'You see, dear Thimbles, predictions about a single coin flip are highly unreliable, therefore no trends or predictions about accumulated or simulated coin flips can ever have any authority. If we don't know enough about how coins operate to predict a single coin toss, how can we assume to predict the results of a series?'
"You sarcastically refer to “faith based crapolly” on the one hand but seem to suspend any disbelief when a climatologist tells you with 99% certainty he knows what the mean global temperature will be in 100 years because he divined it from his CRAY oracle after feeding it reams of data."
I don't believe that and I wouldn't believe that. I do believe when climatologists tell me with certainty that it will be hotter in 100 years, I do believe when they tell me with 90% certainty that the cause is man made, I do believe their likely predictions on the effects based on the degrees of increase,
Where did you hear that "a climatologist" was telling anyone "with 99% certainty" that "he knows what the mean global temperature will be in 100 years"? Because I'd hate to think you were just making something up.
#5 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 07:39 PM
You really want to compare modeling to a simple Bernoulli trial ... lol, you are just to much some times.
ALL HAIL SCIENCE!!
#6 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Fri 13 Jul 2012 at 11:56 AM
No, I'm breaking down your 'might as well be looking at entrails' argument to its simplest case. You say 'You can't predict the charecteristics of a single instance of weather 100% reliably, therefore we can't predict the trends and patterns within repeated instances". I say yeah, even in the simpliest case, predicting a single instance of a coin flip is near impossible to do reliably with all those butterfly wings flapping about, but repeated trials smooth out the 'butterfly' noise. The distribution of 10,000 events will likely be 50% heads and 50% tails +or- .1 percent. Your argument about weather and climate being the same and having the same reliability is wrong.
Further reading:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/01/uncertainty-noise-and-the-art-of-model-data-comparison/
But the Mike H says "Let's say we have an invalid model, there would be no way to test its assumptions right? It's all just entrails unless there are methods to test and disprove the assumptions."
Correct, which is why, unlike weather forecasts, climate science backcasts or hindcasts. If the model is not robust enough to match past observed behavior in the climate system, scientists can look at the data and check their assumptions. If we can model past climates robustly, then those models may inform us of future climates within acceptable margins of error.
If you can do that with entrails, lemme know, kay?
Ps where's that climate guy who was predicting with 99% certainty what the mean old temperature was going to be a century from now? Go on. You brought him up.
#7 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 13 Jul 2012 at 02:08 PM
Correct, which is why, unlike weather forecasts, climate science backcasts or hindcasts. If the model is not robust enough to match past observed behavior in the climate system, scientists can look at the data and check their assumptions. If we can model past climates robustly, then those models may inform us of future climates within acceptable margins of error.
Excellent point about hindcasting, which only further undermines your weak parroting of another man’s words:
It is claimed that GCMs provide credible quantitative estimates of future climate change, particularly at continental scales and above. Examining the local performance
of the models at 55 points, we found that local projections do not correlate well with observed measurements. Furthermore, we found that the correlation at a large spatial scale, i.e. the contiguous USA, is worse than at the local scale.
PRAISE BE TO SCIENCE!!!!!!
If you can do that with entrails, lemme know, kay?
So yeah, I would have about the same success rate with entrails divination as climate molders have predicting what the climate will look like in 100 years.
Ps where's that climate guy who was predicting with 99% certainty what the mean old temperature was going to be a century from now? Go on. You brought him up.
The IPPC describes their predictions as “very likely” which, according to them, means with a 90-99% certainty, so my characterization was on the high end of their range, but considering they have nothing but supposition to base their range off of, they might as well be talking about the ratio of unicorns to leprechans.
#8 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Fri 13 Jul 2012 at 03:53 PM
"Excellent point about hindcasting, which only further undermines your weak parroting of another man’s words:"
Thimbles: Based on my simulation of 10,000 coin tosses, I have projected 5000 occurrences of heads and 5000 occurrences of tails.
Mike H: I have flipped a coin 10,000 times and the observations show 4400 occurrences of heads and 5600 occurrences of tails. You were off by 600 tosses.
Thimbles: That's like a margin of error of 6%. You're going to give me a hard time about a model that conforms to observation 94 perce...
Mike H: ENTRAILS!!"
I should have known you were going to flip on over to "Watts up with that" to buttress your argument.. and then claim I'm the one parroting. Is to laugh.
Anyways, for those who are interested in the real workings of climate modeling, here you go.
http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/2009/04/09/weather-climate-models-trust-me-this-is-interesting/
If you want to claim that 600 places out of thousands are off, fine. The models are the best we can do given our knowledge of the environments being sampled and the computing power required to simulate them. They are improving, but it has always functioned within our boundaries to simulate.
That being said, let's look back at one of the first, crude models set up by James Hansen back in the 80's and see how well it managed to forecast given its limitations:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/04/evaluating-a-1981-temperature-projection/
"To conclude, a projection from 1981 for rising temperatures in a major science journal, at a time that the temperature rise was not yet obvious in the observations, has been found to agree well with the observations since then, underestimating the observed trend by about 30%, and easily beating naive predictions of no-change or a linear continuation of trends. It is also a nice example of a statement based on theory that could be falsified and up to now has withstood the test."
"It's ENTRAILS, MAN! THEY'RE ALL USING ENTRAILS!"
Tell me, do you have a hate on for climate modeling, climate change, or just all of science?
#9 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 01:51 AM
More Hansen:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/hansens-1988-projections/
I'll give you a moment to queue your WUWT links.
And was there anything else I wanted to talk about?...
"The IPPC describes their predictions as “very likely” which, according to them, means with a 90-99% certainty, so my characterization was on the high end of their range, but considering they have nothing but supposition to base their range off of, they might as well be talking about the ratio of unicorns to leprechans."
Yeah, here's the predictions.
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg2/index.php?idp=154
No mention of temperature, just predictions of phenomenon, like "Ocean rise of a meter or more - people living on the beachfront will very likely get their feet wet."
Methinks, thou hath been talking out of thy ass.
#10 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 02:03 AM
OK. It has been really hot this SUMMER, but that doesn't make it "unseasonably warm". Had you said Fall or Winter or even Spring, you might get away with "unseasonably" but Summer is the season of warm! Get another word.
#11 Posted by George, CJR on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 02:48 PM
Welcome to the rest of your lives.
Smoking does cause cancer, and global warming does cause more hot extreme weather events than cold ones (the present ratio being ~ 2:1).
A blogger can't generally refute climate science, it is too well peer reviewed and mistakes are now a no-no in the present media climate. The error in the "refutation" is huge and eventually comes down to about the same order of magnitude as the scientific claim. See Thimbles comment especially.
The "it is GIGO models and entrails" (which one?) science denialists are hilariously progressing to statistical and common sense denialism, the low frequency of consecutive same seasonal extremes is not even a climate model observation.
But more to the point, this isn't about the quantitative frequency increase of hot weather extremes, it is mostly about their use as illustration of what happens under AGW.
Attribution ("was this cancer caused by smoking) will follow after the season is over. Climate scientists gets over 90 % accuracy now (2 sigma), which is better diagnosis than the doctors will give you (~ 80 % diagnosis accuracy).
Expect that to rise as the signal raises over the noise (of these weather extremes, say). Again, Thimbler's comment on Hansen is a nice illustration of S/N problems.
#12 Posted by Torbjörn Larsson, OM, CJR on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 01:30 PM
"The long-term trend now revealed in maximum latewood density data is in line with coupled general circulation models, indicating albedo-driven feedback mechanisms and substantial summer cooling over the past two millennia in northern boreal and Arctic latitudes. These findings, together with the missing orbital signature in published dendrochronological records, suggest that large-scale near-surface air-temperature reconstructions relying on tree-ring data may underestimate pre-instrumental temperatures including warmth during Medieval and Roman times."
Ahh Mikey, once again you can't go around taking 'Watt's Up With That' links and pretend you're down with the science.
The paper:
http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate1589.html
picked up by all the 'skeptics' because of what Jan Ebers said about the MWP and the LIA (neither of which are important when considering the natrue and trajectory of AGW warming) in a press release:
http://www.uni-mainz.de/eng/15491.php
""We found that previous estimates of historical temperatures during the Roman era and the Middle Ages were too low," says Esper. "Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today's climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods."..
In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form. For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past 2,000 years. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.
"This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant," says Esper. "However, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia.""
And the skeptics proceeded to say 'IPCC SUX.' and 'Heh indeedy' eachother, but did any of them talk to the report authors, read the report, or bother to ask how this turned the body of science that comprises AGW into 'ENTRAILS!'?
Real Climate did, and the results.. Well, you'll see.
#13 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 08:16 PM
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/07/tree-rings-and-climate-some-recent-developments/
Links to:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mobileweb/bob-ward/the-worlds-most-visited-n_b_1667338.html
Who says:
"'Watts Up With That', the climate change 'sceptic' website in the United States, reproduced the press release on 9 July under the headline 'This is what global cooling really looks like - new tree ring study shows 2,000 years of cooling - previous studies underestimated temperatures of Roman and Medieval Warm Periods'. This headline, of course, wrongly indicated that the study had investigated global temperatures, rather than just those in northern Scandinavia...
When I contacted by e-mail Dr Robert Wilson, a co-author on the research paper and a Senior Lecturer in Geography and Sustainable Development at the University of St Andrews, he sent me this response:
"Of course the Mail has gone too far. Our paper is for northern Scandinavian summer temperatures so extrapolating to large scale annual temperatures is not really correct. However, previous regional tree-ring series have been used in large scale compilations and if there are low frequency biases in ring-width series, then it is likely that previous attempts may underestimate temperatures in previous warm periods such as the RWP [Roman Warm Period] and MCA [Medieval Climatic Anomaly]. More density series need to be developed from other regions to test this however."
This case yet again exposes the apparent total disregard that the Mail Online has for the current self-regulatory rules about accuracy, and its willingness to misrepresent the results of climate research. However its slavish regurgitation of this sort of climate change 'sceptic' propaganda is making it a national laughing stock."
:/
So yeah, in these situations I'm supposed to beat my chest and do what again? Oh yeah.
PRAISE BE TO SCIENCE!!!!!! WHOOP WHOOP!
#14 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 08:29 PM
Warmingism 101:
A two-week hot spell in part of the continental U.S (the west coast has seen BELOW AVERAGE temps this summer) = proof positive of global warming.
However, a 2000 year period of cooling in Scandinavia = aberrant local phenomenon.
#15 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 16 Jul 2012 at 08:26 AM
"However, a 2000 year period of cooling in Scandinavia = aberrant local phenomenon."
Two questions come to mind:
A) did you read the paper? Or what the paper's authors said about it?
B) based on that, are you a moron?
Ps A 2000 year long oribital induced cooling trend (one that took 20 centuries to get to -0.3 degrees, not < 1 century to get to 0.8) enhances the case that the current warming trend, mentioned at the bottom of the paper, is non-natural in origin, but you must have already known that since we all assume you can read.
#16 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 16 Jul 2012 at 11:12 AM
I'd call this one a 6th round TKO for Thimbles, with Dan H refusing to answer the bell for the 7th round.
#17 Posted by garhighway, CJR on Tue 24 Jul 2012 at 12:34 PM
TKO indeed. Thimbles, we all owe you a beer for swatting the flies.
#18 Posted by putinrearshishead, CJR on Thu 26 Jul 2012 at 10:12 AM