NPR took another hit today with the release of a video from James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas showing NPR Foundation senior vice president Ron Schiller at a lunch in February describing the Tea Party as “scary” and “xenophobic” and claiming that the network would be better off without government funding. (Schiller has since left NPR.) The last point directly contradicts statements made by network head Vivian Schiller just yesterday.
The Daily Caller’s Matthew Boyle describes O’Keefe’s latest sting in his report:
Schiller and Betsy Liley, NPR’s director of institutional giving, are seen meeting with two men who, unbeknownst to the NPR executives, are posing as members of a Muslim Brotherhood front group. The men, who identified themselves as Ibrahim Kasaam and Amir Malik from the fictitious Muslim Education Action Center (MEAC) Trust, met with Schiller and Liley at Café Milano, a well-known Georgetown restaurant, and explained their desire to give to $5 million to NPR because, “the Zionist coverage is quite substantial elsewhere.”
On the tapes, Schiller wastes little time before attacking conservatives. The Republican Party, Schiller says, has been “hijacked by this group.” The man posing as Malik finishes the sentence by adding, “the radical, racist, Islamaphobic, Tea Party people.” Schiller agrees and intensifies the criticism, saying that the Tea Party people aren’t “just Islamaphobic, but really xenophobic, I mean basically they are, they believe in sort of white, middle-America gun-toting. I mean, it’s scary. They’re seriously racist, racist people.”
And here’s the video:
Aside from disparaging the Tea Party (“seriously racist, racist people”), Schiller claimed that liberals were more intelligent than conservatives—though he took his NPR hat off before doing so—and praised NPR’s decision to fire Juan Williams (a decision which no doubt put the network in O’Keefe’s firing line).
“What NPR did I’m very proud of. What NPR stood for is a non-racist, non-bigoted, straightforward telling of the news. Our feeling is that if a person expresses his or her personal opinion, which anyone is entitled to do in a free society, they are compromised as a journalist. They can no longer fairly report. And the question we asked internally was, can Juan Williams, when he makes a statement like that, can he report to the Muslim population, and be believed, for example? And the answer is no. He lost all credibility and that breaks your ethics as a journalist.”
Schiller also contradicted statements made by NPR CEO Vivian Schiller (no relation) just yesterday about the importance of federal funding to the network. The non-CEO Schiller was recorded saying that NPR “would be better off in the long run without federal funding.”
Still bruised from the Juan Williams firing, NPR is being pushed into the ring once again for a gloves-off right-wing battering. And already, the network is arms up in damage control, with senior VP of marketing Dana Davis Rehm releasing this statement:
“The fraudulent organization represented in this video repeatedly pressed us to accept a $5 million check, with no strings attached, which we repeatedly refused to accept.
“We are appalled by the comments made by Ron Schiller in the video, which are contrary to what NPR stands for.
“Mr. Schiller announced last week that he is leaving NPR for another job.”
A couple of things on this.
Obviously, NPR has to be rapid in its response here—“Look, we’re just as quick to condemn liberal Schiller as we were to give Williams the boot.” It’s a natural, understandable, and—on the surface evidence we have—pretty justifiable corporate response. But the rest of us should probably take a breather before jumping to any conclusions about the magnitude or repercussions or deeper meaning of this morning’s news. Where NPR has learned to be quick, we have hopefully learned to slow down.

I agree with this man completely as far as the teabaggers are concerned. NPR can't be looking over its shoulder all the time at people who are really out to destroy it foor ideological reasons. They really want to see radio replaced by commercial radio, top 40 or religious or right-wing talk shows delivered by satellite. This will deliver the maximum amount of money to them with the least risk that people might think. They want, in other words, to do to radio what they have already done to television and newspapers.
NPR management may try to react with policies of appeasement, but if they do they will be wrong.
#1 Posted by Christopher Hobe Morrison, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 04:31 PM
Glad you put the brakes on this latest O'Keefe escapade, Joel. You seem to be the only one. Everyone else, including Romenesko, is running breathlessly with this, however prematurely. It's disgusting to see respectable journalists get led around by the nose by this little snot.
Before condemning what the guy ostensibly said, I'd wait to see the real tape, and wait to hear from the guy. You know. it's no big deal to dub in words and selectively edit, as we know. Everyone at Fox News knows that very well.
All that said, rightwing Tea Partiers ARE full-on racist xenophobes, and hideous, angry, slack-jawed Fox-Watchers. They are the detestable dregs of America. I wish respectable journos would quit allowing them to rule their world.
#2 Posted by James, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 05:09 PM
Love the muslim brotherhood angle. Is that the scent of fresh edited tape I smell?
It's nice to see some skepticism on display. For a while, this guy was being hailed as the "New Journalism" while trying to set up Abbie Boudreau to cameo in his blue debut as the captian of the "Shag Boat".
After the Landrieu business, shouldn't he be in jail?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_email_hack
PS..I wonder if Schiller was thinking of this when he made his tea party comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NutFkykjmbM
Those are real republican reps threatening a muslim charity. Not a scandal.
#3 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 07:30 PM
Nope, I guess if you invade a government building under false pretenses and attempt to tamper with its communications, it's not a jailable offense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O'Keefe
"O'Keefe and three other conservative activists were arrested by the U.S. Marshal Service in New Orleans, Louisiana on January 25, 2010 on federal felony charges of attempting to maliciously interfere with the office telephone system of U.S. Senator Mary Landrieu. Two of the activists had entered the federal building dressed as telephone repairmen, claiming they were responding to complaints that the phones were out of order. One of the Senator's staff members told them "that she did not report any phone problems and that the office was not experiencing any issues with the phone system." They were apprehended after they attempted to gain access to the telephone equipment closet. O'Keefe was present admittedly recording the events on his cell phone. The four men were jailed and arraigned the following day on charges that carried a maximum sentence of ten years in prison followed by three years of probation, and a fine of $250,000. O'Keefe and the other men were released on $10,000 bond pending further court proceedings.
The Christian Science Monitor noted that political liberals immediately portrayed the incident as another Watergate while conservatives asked the public to hold off on judging the incident..
Several months later, the charges were reduced from a felony to a single misdemeanor count of entering a federal building under false pretenses, with U.S. District Judge Stanwood Duval Jr. admonishing the defendants that "perceived righteousness of a cause does not justify nefarious and potentially dangerous actions." Entered with a guilty plea on May 26 was a factual basis which found no "evidence that the defendants intended to commit any felony after the entry by false pretenses", and the "defendants misrepresented themselves and their purpose to orchestrate a conversation about phone calls to the Senator’s staff and capture the conversation on video, not to actually tamper with the phone system, or to commit any other felony." O'Keefe was sentenced to three years' probation, 100 hours of community service and a $1,500 fine. The other three men received lesser sentences of two years' probation, 75 hours of community service and a $1,500 fine. U.S. Magistrate Daniel Knowles III ordered the video footage removed from O'Keefe's cell phone before it was returned to him."
After all, it's not like someone broke into your yahoo account.
"On April 30, 2010, David Kernell was found guilty on two of four counts: the felony of anticipatory obstruction of justice by destruction of records and a misdemeanor of unauthorized access to a computer. The jury acquitted him of the charge of wire fraud and was deadlocked on the charge of identity theft. In response, Palin issued a press release comparing the case to Watergate.
Prosecutors promised a retrial on the identity theft charge if Kernell was successful in his attempt at receiving a new trial In November 2010 he was sentenced to one year and one day of prison, and three years of probation.The judge recommended that the sentence be served in a halfway house rather than in a federal prison. However, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, which makes the ultimate determination as to where federal prisoners serve their sentence, assigned Kernell to the minimum security prison at the Federal Correctional Institution, Ashland near Ashland, Kentucky."
#4 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 07:43 PM
"rightwing Tea Partiers ARE full-on racist xenophobes, and hideous, angry, slack-jawed Fox-Watchers. They are the detestable dregs of America. I wish respectable journos would quit allowing them to rule their world."
Wow... Just, wow. I knew you were out these James, but this takes it to a whole new level. And you represent the core fan base of CJR?
#5 Posted by JLD, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 07:48 PM
Wow. Somebody tried to remove the tea party racist xenophobe video. Too bad the internet delivers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVQeB8gGS9g
#6 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 07:52 PM
There seems to be a selective tolerance among our leftist friends for these uncover hit operations...
When they break bad on liberals, they're anathema.
When they break bad on conservatives (like Wis. Gov. Walker), they're funny!.
#7 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 08:02 PM
I don't represent anyone. I'm just an ordinary, rational American citizen stating a well-known, and well-documented fact. Interesting that you take it personally....
#8 Posted by James, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 08:21 PM
If the Beast had edited the tape, lie Breitbart and O'keefe had done, I'd be just as angry at the Beast as I was over Acorn.
If fact, when Alan Grayson used edited tape for his campaign commercials I came out against that, even though I admired many of his earlier efforts. I don't like being lied to. Do you?
#9 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 08:28 PM
Apparently, the unedited video is available on O'Keefe's website.
So rest easy, Thimbles...
#10 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 08:34 PM
Parallel universe time. ACORN's folks did, in fact, say what the tape says they said, despite many attempts to pick around the edges of the guerrilla tape. Same with Planned Parenthood. Same with NPR.
In the meantime, ABC and John Quinones are zealously going around with actors and staged events to try to sniff out bigotry among ordinary people in everyday situations. They haven't been nearly successful in their political objective as has O'Keefe. I have missed the CJR piece critical of ABC for attempting to provoke such non-news to push a leftist cultural agenda. But then, I haven't seen a compare-and-contrast to the coverage of the 'hate' speech at the Tea Party rallies vs. the public-sector rallies.
I've seen the links to sites purporting to discredit O'Keefe. They are vigorous in criticizing his tactics, but can't produce smoking gun evidence that he out-and-out lied by misrepresenting what ACORN, Planned Parenthood, and now the NPR exec said. Smoke, but not fire. Everybody edits, but only O'Keefe seems to get called out for it. This is strictly - strictly - about political partisanship and nothing else. The critics of this latest exposure of the left-leaning culture of NPR only come from the Left.
#11 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 08:43 PM
Unless Schiller thought he was in a skit for SNL, and was reading a script from the writers, the fact is he said the words on the video, and they likely represent what is in his "heart." He of course has a right to express an opinion regarding NPR and the Tea Baggers. I wonder about having lunch with people for "business" purposes and not doing one's homework on their organization and affiliations if any. As far as I'm concerned public figures are fair game, whether the hunter is "Fat Michael," O'Keefe, or Wikileaks.
#12 Posted by BK, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 09:17 PM
"ACORN's folks did, in fact, say what the tape says they said"
In some cases to solicit information from the sometimes "pimp" and report it to the police, in some cases to help the boyfriend with her "prostitute girlfriend" protect herself from the pimp (that's part that's edited out, the costumed pimp was then edited in), in other cases to make fun of the lame ass consters who were getting so obvious by the end.
In each case the tape was edited for effect. Same with Planned Parenthood. Doubtless, the same with NPR. Consider the source.
By the by, did anybody enjoy the video of Pam Geller's racist xenophobes above? The one with elected republican teabaggers commenting on how proud they are of these loose cannon losers, two steps removed from Shawna Forde?
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/06/15/minutemen-murder-arizona-immigration/
Does O'keefe really want to dig into the racist xenophobe charges against the tea party? I'd let that mad dog lie, were I him.
#13 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 09:58 PM
This writer has attended Tea Party meetings and rallies. Nothing I heard or have read and no one I have observed (I am a former newspaper reporter and teacher, so I notice behavior) comports with accusations Mr. Schiller made and others here have amplified and supported.
I read here the words of blind bigots, enraged individuals who insist, on scant evidence, that millions (i think that's a far estimate) of Tea Partiers are, well, their own "untermenschen." It is tempting to respond with a like rage. My reaction is mostly one of sadness. I long for the day when the American left, from the President on down, is worth more than enormous contempt and disgust.
#14 Posted by Alfred J. Lemire, CJR on Tue 8 Mar 2011 at 11:56 PM
Did you watch the video? The many videos? Not all tea party people are crazy xenophobes who chant "GO HOME!" at muslim charities, some of them are genuine libertarians who believe in individual rights, freedoms, and the benefits of small government. I know them. I've met them. We can have reasonable disagreements based on legitimate interpretations of government's relationship to the society it inhabits.
But those tea partiers aren't the guys we saw condemning the "9-11 mosque". Those tea partiers are not the ones we see pushing for more government intrusion into women's lives. Those tea partiers aren't the ones equating Health Care reform to Nazi death camps while holding signs with a witch doctor, bone through the nose, Obama. You got a problem with our perception? Change what
we're seeing, don't complain about what we are saying.
Because we haven't said anything false. Tea party is a brand. There is little discipline and right wing paranoia from your other brands leak in.
This guy was a part of your movement, a leader in fact:
http://blog.reidreport.com/2010/07/tea-partier-mark-williams-writes-open-letter-to-lincoln-from-the-coloreds/
If you want to be considered separate from all that, then make a statement of principles and make it clear to some of your more Neanderthal memebers:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html
that behavior is not condoned. Otherwise, SHHhhhhhh. We'll let you slander us as much as you guys always do and we'll speak our minds based on what we have witnessed.
And have a nice day. :)
#15 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 12:40 AM
There is ample and convincing evidence in live television footage, speeches, and in actions taken by members of the Tea Party that I am correct and factual in my description, and that those here who deny that are either lying or delusional.
The Tea Party is a fringe, extremist group of racist, xenophobic, middle-aged white suburbanites seething with rage and resentment over perceived loss of privilege; in other words, slack-jawed Fox-watchers. That's just an obvious fact.
Moreover, the rage and xenophobia of this hideous group is promoted and exploited by conservative media and rightwing billionaires for their own profit. So one can also conclude that the Tea Partiers aren't very bright. No offense to those present, I'm just stating facts.
#16 Posted by James, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 04:37 AM
And when the tea partiers do reasonable things, they should be recognized for that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfL5MUuOj9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HmMp-41Xwg
Not all tea partiers are.. untermenschen? but neither have all ascended above nativism, prejudice, nor irrationality.
And those folks are quite public about it, having demonstrations, carrying offensive signs, threatening to return with fire arms loaded. Libs want to deal with reasonable people, so stop making your faces so unreasonable in public. Can you imagine what fox would do if libs pulled half the crap the tea party groups get away with?
#17 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 10:26 AM
I attended a Tea Party rally (as an observer, not a participant) on the Capitol grounds last year where the Mall was full from the Capitol steps down to the reflecting pond. I saw a lot of kooky signs (including many alluding to armed resistance) but not a single racist one.
The large family sitting next to me were black Seventh Day Adventists from Pennsylvania and for the two hours that I was there they acted, and were treated, just like everyone else. It was otherwise a pretty pasty white crowd for the most part.
I suppose any large enough group of people will have a certain percentage of racist individuals, but based on what I've seen, it is plainly inaccurate to describe the Tea Party as a racist organization.
Our local Tea Party group (to which I do not belong) has published its charter in print and on radio ads, which provides a code of conduct that demands the ouster of anyone acting in a racist manner. This came after local Tea Partiers were falsely accused of cutting a gas line at the home of the brother of (then Congressman) Tom Perriello during a heated campaign. Turned out a raccoon chewed through the line on a gas grill, but the press had a field day making it out to be an instance of Tea Party terrorism.
It doesn't matter what the Reality is - the left will vilify anyone who opposes the leftist/commie cause.
At any rate - you have to score another huge one for O'Keefe! This kid is moving some serious mountains. Took down ACORN... And now NPR . Love him or hate him, you've got to give him credit for making a hell of a difference.
#18 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 11:18 AM
Left-wing this. Right-wing that. He said this. She said that.
Yawn.
Wake me up when NPR, VOA, and all other tax-feeding, state-worshiping, "news" outfits have been de-"funded" and abolished.
#19 Posted by Dan A., CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 11:54 AM
I missed CJR's piece urging 'caution' in believing the tape pranking Gov. Walker in Wisconsin recently, and noting the left-wing political motives of the pranker. Can someone at CJR direct me to it?
#20 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 12:57 PM
Are we pieced-off?
You "Progressive Liberals" should be!!
So very funny...NPR is trying fervently to get as much distance as it possibly can between themselves and the likes of Ron Schiller...they are having problems....if only this were a simple reporter or a lowly employee without a title...why did it have to be an NPR Exec....
Good luck NPR on talking your way out of this...that little show by Kooky Roberts did not quite do it....
#21 Posted by Douglas Saunders, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 02:12 PM
As a practicing (practice doesn’t always make perfect) Roman Catholic, I have a notion of what it must be like to have my faith, institutions, and role in shaping society’s rules, mores, and accepted practices challenged. Something like what has happened to the Church in the West appears to be going on today for America’s left. (Many or some of them are often neither liberal nor progressive, so both terms are inexact, but they are always leftist.)
Perhaps the brighter leftists recognize challenges to government unions and the mass news media threaten the weakening of key supports for the left’s governmental and political power and ability to shape and influence public opinion and behavior. The O’Keefe video nailing the prejudices of the sort of person at NPR helps to enhance the chances for the federal defunding of NPR, as with ACORN. Planned Parenthood, another institution of the modern left, also should be defunded. The left responds to challenges to its institutions and power with ferocity, as one sees here with the wild swings at Tea Party activists and James O’Keefe.
I watch Fox News for TV news, having rejected ABC, CBS, and NBC TV News in the mid-1990s, after more than a year of watching the evening news shows of all three every weekday. They broadcast propaganda, or, if one prefers, advocacy, for the left’s politics and issues, whose particulars lacked truth or fairness. The Fox News news presentation is less biased than that at ABC-CBS-NBC. (Such as Eric Engberg at CBS and Jim Wooten at ABC put their opinions front and center in their reports; Fox News news staff does not. The channel’s opinion parts, which opponents usually fail to distinguish from the news part, function as entertainment does at other networks, including that of Fox.
The opinion segments feature the assertive Bill O’Reilly, who rarely lets anyone, friend or foe, complete an effective point; Sean Hannity, who has the perceptions of an average intellect; the intelligent and able Greta Van Susteren, a terrific interviewer who lets people complete points and who keeps her opinions mostly to herself, and Glenn Beck, whose programs’ informative content and effective stagings and histrionics do what the left does elsewhere. That helps to explain the growing opposition to him and falsification of his views from the left and a mistaken few on the right.
And I’m not slack-jawed. I doubt any Fox News viewer is.
#22 Posted by Alfred J. Lemire, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 04:04 PM
"As a practicing (practice doesn’t always make perfect) Roman Catholic, I have a notion of what it must be like to have my faith, institutions, and role in shaping society’s rules, mores, and accepted practices challenged."
You mean by that leftist, Jesus Christ?
"Perhaps the brighter leftists recognize challenges to government unions and the mass news media threaten the weakening of key supports for the left’s governmental and political power and ability to shape and influence public opinion and behavior."
Or perhaps the brighter left wingers have finally realized that the dominance of right wingers over the past 30 years has left the richest 400 people with more wealth than the bottom 50%, not to mention destroyed one country (Iraq) under false pretenses and is on the verge of destroying another (America ) under false ideas (banks can regulate themselves). Do you want a country in which only one radical view point dominates? Do you want two parties bought by oligarchy money?
"I watch Fox News for TV news, having rejected ABC, CBS, and NBC TV News in the mid-1990s, after more than a year of watching the evening news shows of all three every weekday... The Fox News news presentation is less biased than that at ABC-CBS-NBC. (Such as Eric Engberg at CBS and Jim Wooten at ABC put their opinions front and center in their reports; Fox News news staff does not."
So you are a member of the most misinformed news audience in America:
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/breaking-study-finds-fox-news-viewers-are-the-most-misinformed.php
and you believe fox's news staff, such as Megyn Kelly, don't put their opinions front and center.
*Sigh*
"The opinion segments feature the assertive Bill O’Reilly, who rarely lets anyone, friend or foe, complete an effective point"
There's a word for that, 'belligerent' (I would have also accepted 'rude')
"Sean Hannity, who has the perceptions of an average intellect;"
*Sigh*
"Greta Van Susteren"
Don't have an opinion.
"and Glenn Beck, whose programs’ informative content and effective stagings and histrionics do what the left does elsewhere. That helps to explain the growing opposition to him and falsification of his views from the left and a mistaken few on the right."
Oh dear. If you watch Glen Beck for anything but his frog cooking tips, you're a fool.
I thought for a second you might be a Ron Paul, little government, conservative who might be worth talking to, not another close minded, fox news dittohead.
Sorry to take your time.
#23 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 07:56 PM
Q.E.D.
#24 Posted by James, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 08:44 PM
Another thought on follow up, regarding xenophobia. This word describes a response to particular conditions, i.e., fear of foreigners, their religion or culture...it is not in and of itself, a judgement, or indictment, or a "negative."
We hominids have been rewarded by natural selection for not mistaking enemies as friends, or as inanimate objects. Those of our ancesters who mistook a tiger for a rock are not present in the contemporary DNA record. On the other hand, those who considered that the distant "rock" might actually be a still tiger or a human adversary may be represented in our current DNA.
In essence, it doesn't matter who Mr. Schiller believes is the enemy, or if he believes there is no enemy. The issue is that being wrong about the intent of an "agent" can erase your biological record, whether you are a better-educated, liberal effete, or a reactionary gomer from Kentucky.
Perhaps back then there was a word or a sound such as "xenophobe" to describe in derisive terms, those who feared a distant rock, out of consideration that it could be a crouching tiger; perhaps those who laughed at this were "liberals" featuring themselves to be open-minded and inclusive about the rock, curious, and obviously the intellectual superiors of the badly educated alarmists who fled, or took a wait and see position.
If history is any indicator, we have few friends in the world, and I see no reason to number Muslim nations or their representatives among our friends.
#25 Posted by BK, CJR on Wed 9 Mar 2011 at 09:21 PM
@James, Thimbles: To make an obvious point, the sentiments you two espouse in this discussion are exactly the same ones that got (both) Schillers canned and that are rightfully denounced by NPR, and almost every other observer in the US who has a thread of decency towards others. I see very few jumping up to defend these remarks, much less going further as you two have here.
It's really no different from calling all union members thugs, or making crass generalizations about blacks or Muslims.
#26 Posted by JLD, CJR on Thu 10 Mar 2011 at 02:19 AM
"It's really no different from calling all union members thugs, or making crass generalizations about blacks or Muslims."
Which happens on the right wing tea party circuit only ALL THE TIME based on much less evidence.
From Rush Limbaugh to Michelle Bachman to Pam Geller to Megyn Kelly to Juan Williams you guys feel free to shoot your mouths off because there's little chance you'll feel any repercussions.
I mean anything:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHLkeEoaMQI
What I made were accurate assessments based on the accurate footage above that describes a considerable tea set within the tea party (a party spawned from a televised rant on the plight of 'losers' aka. the victims of predatory loans and bankster crimes)
Civility is a two way street and your media is not civil AT ALL. NPR was civil, and how much good did that do them? Should we accord FOX, talk radio, and the tea party the civility NPR deserved when your guys don't even try to be nice? Do you not deserve to be held to the same standards as NPR?
You seem to think I should be held to it, to the detriment of the public record. I'm not interested in that deal.
#27 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 10 Mar 2011 at 03:22 AM
As far as I can tell, these seething, resentful Tea Partiers are working for
* lower taxes for Paris Hilton, Keith Olbermann, and Barbra Stresand
* low wages and no pensions for people who work (including themselves)
* hand Social Security funds over to Wall Street bankers
* abolish medical care, workplace safety, and clean water laws
* have police and firefighters work for minimum wage or less
How dumbass is that?
I'm not making crass generalizations, I'm just stating facts. And Mr. Schiller was just stating facts. There is a great deal of evidence to support the facts that I state. Are these seething, racist white suburbanites not demanding those items I listed above?
All day long they feed off the addictive hate and propaganda fed to them by conservative media and rightwing billionaires, who profit mightily by exploiting that seething hatred day in and day out.
Denial is just a symptom of the disease, but brightly evident to everyone else. I'm just stating the reality.
#28 Posted by James, CJR on Thu 10 Mar 2011 at 10:40 AM
It looks like the Tea Party way is the way of the immediate future.
The public isn't buying the commie line.
Let the Free Market Roll!
#29 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 10 Mar 2011 at 01:58 PM
Late, but for the record, and editing this post to shorten it: I have experience with the pollsters’ work and reason not to trust it, going back to 2003 and a poll making a like phony claim that Fox News viewers were misinformed. I'll tackle only one of the answers the pollsters fancied reflected misinformation, this time as did the site to which Thimbles linked: "most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit."
On Page 6 of the poll report, one reads, "The CBO has concluded that the healthcare reform law (the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act) would not increase the deficit and would modestly reduce it. The perception of most voters in the election was quite different." Elsewhere, whoever wrote the poll report relied as “reference points” the conclusions of “key” government agencies run by “professional experts” who “have a strong reputation for being immune to partisan influences.” The agencies included the CBO.
Whether “most” voters or a significant percentage, the people disagreeing with the CBO had a correct perception and were not misinformed, as implied. The CBO estimate was based on faulty assumptions provided by Democrats in Congress and included their scam of cutting $500 billion from Medicare, using it to fund part of ObamaCare. Back in the day, the propagandists of the left at the AP, The New York Times, ABC-CBS-NBC, etc. etc. would have repeatedly quoted Democrats on the CBO estimate and repeated it as gospel. Now, many people have alternate sources of information and can learn what Rep. Paul Ryan and others concluded from the Democrats-to-CBO gambit.
On Page 6, one also read that, “Respondents were asked what they thought ‘economists who have estimated the effect of the health reform law on the federal budget deficit over the next ten years’ have concluded. Only 13% of voters thought more economists estimate health care reform will not increase the deficit. A 53% majority of voters thought that more economists estimate the legislation will increase the deficit, and another 29% thought economists are evenly divided on the question.“
No way on Earth will ObamaCare not increase the deficit and not increase both healthcare and healthcare insurance costs. (I’ll cut out details leading to that conclusion.)
Also, the poll referred to the “health reform law” and the “healthcare reform law.” Reforming health? Healthcare, which is what happens when a physician inserts a pacemaker with three leads that can resynchronize the ventricles of a patient with heart failure? (ObamaCare will tax the maker of the device, boosting the cost of later such procedures.) The alleged reforms had to deal with healthcare insurance, or how hospitals and providers got paid, and by whom. But, as paymaster-in-chief, the government will get to shape what health care professionals can do for whom and how. But that’s not healthcare reform.
People were asked to evaluate what they thought “economists” have estimated on the law’s impact on the federal deficit in the next 10 years. How the Hell do voters have the faintest clue what “economists” think about the matter? Show me the AP story that provides or has provided some information on what economists determine on anything. Point to the one-minute blabbery from Perky Katie on economists’ conclusions. I wouldn’t have a clue what economists conclude about anything, unless I did an Internet search.
Just did. Harold Pollack, a lefty professor in Chicagoland separated at birth from Stephen Hawking, emailing another lefty, counted 272 economists of various types who supported a letter to Congress that repeal of ObamaCare would “strengthen the economy and promote economic recovery.” Its repeal “would cause needless economic harm.” Such economists are the ones that the pollsters had in mind.
Then I found another letter to Congress, signed by 200 authorities, including two former Directors of the CBO, wh
#30 Posted by Alfred J. Lemire, CJR on Sat 12 Mar 2011 at 04:29 AM
Been busy. Didn't see this before.
"The CBO estimate was based on faulty assumptions provided by Democrats in Congress and included their scam of cutting $500 billion from Medicare, using it to fund part of ObamaCare."
Dude, refer to slides 8, 9 and 10 here:
http://www.kaiseredu.org/tutorials/Medicare-and-health-reform/player.html
They are not cutting coverage from medicare, they are cutting costs and that has to be done from the whole medical system, because it is outrageously inefficient when it comes to costs (twice what other countries pay), quality of care (minimal doctor attention, minimal preventive medicine), and outcomes (equal - if not less than - on major metrics to other countries for - I repeat - twice the costs).
If you don't deal with health care inefficiency, then you are not dealing seriously with long term debt. You are not a serious fiscal conservative.
How are those savings achieved without sacrificing quality of care? By doing effectiveness studies to eliminate expensive superfluous treatments, by doing preventative medicine, by reining in costs from the privatized medicare experiment the republicans tried without implementing cost controls (of course because republicans know that their corporate sponsors would never overbill and overcharge the government for their services. Republicans have implicit fait in their friends when it comes to your tax payer money)
All of these cost saving measures are being fought by supposedly fiscally conservative republicans who, by their actions as a minority and when they were in power in eight years and forced the passage of unfunded medicare part D, DO NOT CARE ABOUT DEFICITS AND DEBT AT ALL. And that includes Rand Paul who doesn't want his medicare billing cut.
Story for another time, I know.
Anyways, the bill does not cut 500 billion from medicare, meaning a reduction in coverage by 500 billion for seniors. It saves 50 billion a year from projected medicare spending by increasing revenue, improving quality, and decreasing waste. As a former newspaper reporter you should be better informed on a bloody issue before spreading disinformation about it.
"No way on Earth will ObamaCare not increase the deficit and not increase both healthcare and healthcare insurance costs. (I’ll cut out details leading to that conclusion.)"
Of course you cut out the details, because the details are yes, the health care industry is going to blow up the deficit throughout the course of the century
(See the graph "Projected Federal Spending Over the Long Term" http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/89xx/doc8935/01-23-OutlookSlides.pdf )
- and yes, America is already laying out as much government money per capita as Canada does to fund its entire public universal health system - and yes, the republican strategy to deal with this cost explosion situation has been to do nothing. Nada.
#31 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 13 Mar 2011 at 12:01 PM
And, compared to the policy of "nothing - or worse than" evidenced by the republicans 8 years in power with 1 cost exploding pharma written entitlement and another cost exploding medicare plus entitlement passed, Obamacare does reduce the deficit, healthcare, and insurance costs.
There are ways to reduce the deficit more, but you have to balance the priorities of universality, quality of care, reduced expense, and (unique to America) private control over public obligations.
Obamacare is weak, much weaker than libs would have liked, much weaker than the systems existing in other countries who control costs better than you do, but when you have to placate industries who are going to fund your PACs and deal with the fox news goons who claim you're cutting 500 billion from medicare while turning "end of life counseling" into goddamned "Death Panels" and watch a slew of options that might have improved lives (the public option, medicare buy in, reimportation of drugs from Canada (because republicans don't believe in negotiating prices when the government is purchaser, while Canada does)) get thrown out of the house bill by Max Baucus and his bud Chuck Grassley, you have to accept weak. Why? Because it's better than NOTHING. NOTHING SUCKS.
http://www.visualeconomics.com/healthcare-costs-around-the-world_2010-03-01/
http://www.economist.com/node/13899647
#32 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 13 Mar 2011 at 12:10 PM
"People were asked to evaluate what they thought “economists” have estimated on the law’s impact on the federal deficit in the next 10 years. How the Hell do voters have the faintest clue what “economists” think about the matter? Show me the AP story that provides or has provided some information on what economists determine on anything. "
Are you really a former newsman? Really?
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/01/sensible-economists-letter-on-the-affordable-care-act.html
Of course one could also claim that the CBO is staffed with... I don't know.. economists?
Therefore CBO estimates on the effects of health care would be the judgement of... economists?
But you're right. How would media consumers know what the economists had to say about healthcare and the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act if THEY DON'T PRINT THEM and THEY DON'T PUT THEM ON TV? That was the subject of the Pew criticism, media - in general - aren't doing a good job of informing their audience on issues and Fox News is really bad at it.
That may be because some so-called newspaper men can't use google or their brains to figure out what economists are saying or who are the qualified economists to ask.
#33 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 13 Mar 2011 at 12:38 PM
Oh geez, you're a bizzaro newsman.
http://www.google.co.jp/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Alfred+J.+Lemire
One of Bozwell's flying monkeys. Say hi to Danny Gainor for me when you meet him by the watercooler in the fifth pit of hackery, you hack!
I should have googled you first. What a waste of time.
#34 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 13 Mar 2011 at 12:48 PM
What makes Alfred a "hack"?
#35 Posted by Dan A., CJR on Mon 14 Mar 2011 at 11:08 AM
Nothing will stop you if want to get good grades. Even when you have no time for writing, then you will be able to buy an essay and approach your aim!
#36 Posted by Evangelina23CHASE, CJR on Mon 14 Mar 2011 at 11:40 AM
Dan A wondered: What makes Alfred a "hack"?
padikiller responds: He writes things liberals don't like reading...
If he does it twice, he becomes a "troll"..
#37 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 14 Mar 2011 at 11:43 AM
Good question. In the past, newsbusters guys dropped in with false names and axes to grind.
Clay Water's false name (and some old Breitbarty conversation) here:
http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/pushing_back_against_facebooks.php
Danny Gainor shows up here and elsewhere.
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/look_at_us.php
These guys claim journalist experience, then mouth a bunch of republican talking points, then disappear again into the ether.
When I saw Alfred J. Lemire's name beside newsbusters, I thought we had another Bozwell hack trolling the board.
Turns out, he's just a member . Sorry for the confusion Alfred.
#38 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 14 Mar 2011 at 12:03 PM
In Liberal La-La Land...
Falsity = "Confusion"
Orwell would be proud, Thimbles.
#39 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 14 Mar 2011 at 12:14 PM
Well argued, Thimbles. I tried to keep my post short. You appear to have done likewise, because you did not respond to my criticism of a poll and its analysis from a unit of the University of Maryland. The Democrats fed the CBO numbers, including, I’m pretty certain, a forecast that they would cut Medicare payments to providers, and various other cost-saving schemes; based on the provided info, the CBO responded that the plan would cut the federal deficit and reduce overall health spending.
You issued a challenge. This response covers only part of the costs that will further balloon both debt and deficit, a words-only concern of the President, a heart and soul concern of Tea Party people from the abused middle class.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe CBO included the Democrats’ forecast that payments to physicians for Medicare services would be cut by 23%. I thought that, based on reports, including one by Robert Pear of the NY Times, that was postponed from December 1 to this past January 1. Turns out that that covered all of 2011. And the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services “has [have?] estimated that Medicare physician payments will be cut by 29.5 percent unless a long-term solution is adopted.”
http://www.cardiovascularbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_articles&view=article&id=26743&division=cvb
That brief article was filed Monday night, the 14th, when a Yanqui was stealing second base. Typical. One way or another, Medicare costs will rise or many people will have a tough time getting the care they need. Medicare already underpays health care providers, judging from documents I have seen. No doubt billing hikes for other plans balance Medicare underpayments. Does anyone expect the U.S. Senate or House to decide this year to cut payments to physicians next year?
I have not seen the detailed CBO report, but wonder whether it accounted for the huge costs greater government supervision of health care insurance (and provision) will entail. How many more, Mr. Speaker, how many more members of government unions will there be because of DemCare? How many more highly paid gummint officials? And how many more people with a selfish interest in a continued and expensive bloat of government?
The gummint also plans to cut from Medicare Advantage, which the lady from Kaiser Family Foundation discussed. (I listened to the entire presentation.) That, she said, is expected to reduce the number of Medicare Advantage plans and of enrollees. How nice. I know someone with an annual income well below $10K who gets first-rate medical care through an Advantage plan. Will he lose that plan coverage? We will see. I did some other research and found a file from February 10 on Medicare Advantage and some long, hopeful name for the Democrats’ law, or DemCare (my preferred title):
http://www.healthcare.gov/news/factsheets/medicare02102011a.html
For some reason, that didn’t get the attention it deserves. There’s much in it to question. Here’s a puzzler. What do “overpayments” mean and their end entail here: “The new law levels the playing field by gradually eliminating Medicare Advantage overpayments to insurance companies.
“All beneficiaries will see premiums decline on average by $1 to $3 as a result of this provision. And all Medicare beneficiaries will receive guaranteed Medicare benefits.”
DemCare also requires insurers to stop insurance through covering plan applicants with pre-existing conditions. The usual definition of insurance says that it provides protection from a possible eventuality. One may assume that 99.9% of people with pre-existing conditions will incur medical costs related to those conditions, often quite high, and for many years: not really insurance.
#40 Posted by Alfred J. Lemire, CJR on Mon 14 Mar 2011 at 11:26 PM
"Well argued, Thimbles. I tried to keep my post short. You appear to have done likewise, because you did not respond to my criticism of a poll and its analysis from a unit of the University of Maryland."
Funny, I thought I had. You said that the CBO made false predictions based on false assumptions from the democrats, therefore the poll based on veracity of the CBO report is itself faulty.
If you haven't established why the CBO report is faulty, then your complaints about the poll are unfounded.
"The Democrats fed the CBO numbers, including, I’m pretty certain, a forecast that they would cut Medicare payments to providers, and various other cost-saving schemes; based on the provided info, the CBO responded that the plan would cut the federal deficit and reduce overall health spending."
You can look these things up:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10868/12-19-Reid_Letter_Managers_Correction_Noted.pdf
The CBO estimated the savings based on the legislation's implications, not on fed numbers.
There's are a number of cost cutting approaches being used (Im not going to use the word 'scheme', thank you), the most important of which are the cuts to medicare advantage (which needs trimming - if your priority is cutting tax payer costs) and reductions in improper payments, the rate of which in Medicare Advantage plans is twice what it is for normal medicare:
Medicare FFS improper payments in 2008 - 7.8%
Medicaid improper payments in 2008 - 8.7%
Medicare Adv. improper payments in 2008 - 15.4%
Improved standards and auditing are necessary:
http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/2010/07/t20100715a.html
and those are the very things Republicans enjoy defunding.
There is only a couple of references to cutting the premiums to providers made in the CBO assessment, and one of them is in reference to the 1997 Balanced Budget Act, not to the bill being discussed:
"These longer-term calculations assume that the provisions are enacted and remain unchanged throughout the next two decades, which is often not the case for major legislation. For example, the sustainable growth rate (SGR) mechanism governing Medicare’s payments to physicians has frequently been modified (either through legislation or administrative action) to avoid reductions in those payments, and legislation to do so again is currently under consideration in the Congress.
The legislation would maintain and put into effect a number of procedures that might be difficult to sustain over a long period of time. Under current law and under the proposal, payment rates for physicians’ services in Medicare would be reduced by about 21 percent in 2010 and then decline further in subsequent years. At the same time, the legislation includes a number of provisions that would constrain payment rates for other providers of Medicare services. In particular, increases in payment rates for many providers would be held below the rate of inflation (in expectation of ongoing productivity improvements in the delivery of health care). The projected longer-term savings for the legislation also assume that the Independent Payment Advisory Board is fairly effective in reducing costs beyond the reductions that would be achieved by other aspects of the legislation. Based on the extrapolation described above, CBO expects that Medicare spending under the legislation would increase at an average annual rate of roughly 6 percent during the next two decades—well below the roughly 8 percent annual growth rate of the past two decades (excluding the effect of establishing the Medicare prescription drug benefit)."
More in a second
#41 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 11:56 AM
The law does little to directly limit medicare costs and reduce deficits. Partially because it's a weak law that attempted to avoid offending anybody important (liberals who cared about the public option and the excise tax on union "cadillac" plans were laughed out of the room. Single payer libs were arrested.)
Partially because you can't reduce the costs of a government program which uses an industry's services unless you change the industry. And, as I have said before, the American health care industry pays twice the international cost for less than international average quality. It sucks and under current law it will suck more. Remember that graph showing "Projected Federal Spending Over the Long Term"?
Same sort of graph showing health care entitlement costs against the costs of the industry they depend on.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8758/MainText.3.1.shtml#1077141
The costs of medical entitlements are fixed to the costs of the industry. It is the effectiveness of the law's industry cost controls which will determine whether government deficits explode or not - since future government deficits are a factor of medicare and medicaid. The law will control industry costs through the mandate, the open exchange, treatment effectiveness research, etc... It will reduce costs compared to the republican strategy which was, say it with me, nothing.
"But, as with the Democrats forcing housing loans to poor people, a huge factor in the housing boom and bust, the Democrats may want to do good, but their means too often create greater problems than their solutions. "
You see, when I saw your name connected with the Bozwell monkeys, I dismissed you as one of their paid hacks, saying untrue things that, deep in their dark flying monkey hearts, they know aren't true.
And I apologized for calling you a hack based on that belief.
But then you say things like that and I shake my head. THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT FORCE HOUSING LOANS ON POOR PEOPLE. THE INVESTMENT BANKS MADE GARBAGE MORTGAGES SO THEY COULD SELL THEM AS 'TRIPLE A' RATED SECURITIES TO PENSION FUNDS. THIS TALKING POINT HAS BEEN DEBUNKED TOO MANY TIMES TO EXCUSE.
But what can I expect. You are a member of the most misinformed news audience in America.
*sigh*
#42 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 12:38 PM
I erred in referring to numbers. The CBO provided the numbers, based on PPACA, or what some call ObamaCare, and its assumptions. In the report to Senator Reid, Douglas W. Elmendorf, the CBO’s Director, wrote that, a “provision that would increase Medicare’s payment rates for physicians’ services by 0.5 percent for 2010 was eliminated. Instead, the 21 percent reduction in those payment rates that is scheduled to occur in 2010 under current law would take effect.”
That $186 billion in savings over 10 years looks illusory, as I have written. And I see zip to account for increased coss and numbers of Medicare qualifiers as they reach 65.
“Reducing Medicaid and Medicare payments to hospitals that serve a large number of low-income patients, known as disproportionate share hospitals (DSH), by about $43 billion—composed of roughly $19 billion from Medicaid and $24 billion from Medicare DSH payments.” How does one cut $43 billion from payments to “disproportionate share hospitals” that apparently merit their own acronym, DSH? Have payments been excessive? How will that huge cut affect low-income patients?
Another $118 billion would be saved from Medicare Advantage payments by setting payment rates “on the basis of the average of the bids submitted by Medicare Advantage plans in each market.” That anticipated cost saving appears to be disguised capitation. If organizations can’t get an adequate return from the revised payments, one suspects they will suspend service, tossing many people into regular Medicare, which many on the left prefer, since it cuts out subsidies to disfavored private parties. (Leftists love subsidies to some private parties that requite their lefty affections or that suit their dirigiste mentality.)
[I should note that last January, Rep. Paul Ryan, one of the ablest and hardest-working members of Congress and a leading critic of CBO claims about DemCare (PPACA), said, “You’re doing as great job, Doug.” (Reminiscent about how someone praised someone called “Brownie.”) But no sarcasm with Rep. Ryan, and a judgment to respect: later in January, Mr. Elmendorf was appointed to a full, four-year term by Senate—and House—leaders. The chairman of the House Budget Committee, who is Rep. Ryan, makes a recommendation on reappointment to the House Speaker.]
And I didn’t see anything about the added staff that will carve out further medical care and insurance regulations and others that will enforce the rules, or the added administrative costs the regs will entail, or the added IRS agents some have mentioned.
As to government setting detailed rules for an industry that produce greater cost savings, well, count me a skeptic, as I am on overall cost savings from DemCare. I am also skeptical about savings from wellness. I know a family with two siblings who died in their 50s of heart attacks. They smoked a lot. No Social Security. No Medicare. No need for care for the ailments that afflict many older Americans. Two other siblings living far longer have incurred substantial Social Security and Medicare costs.
People are living longer and incurring more Medicare costs. Why? Medical care has improved. It should improve more and wellness programs are terrific, but will they prevent the surgeries and debilitating sicknesses touted as a benefit of wellness care? Maybe in the short term, but not the long, though one prefers to have problems later on in life, in one’s nineties.
I spent a lot more time with your last observation. A TV ad I’ve seen often on Fox News, with a former Watergate burglar speaking on camera, blames Wall Street, too, for the financial crisis. One has to distrust anyone who fixes on one element for the crisis, though I’ve tended to in blaming Democrats in Congress, though I’ve never written that they forced anyone to do anything. But if one tempts people to buy a house with no money down, lots of poor people will buy them, which was the inte
#43 Posted by Alfred J. Lemire, CJR on Wed 16 Mar 2011 at 11:51 PM