There was a series of moments, during the first twenty-four hours after the attacks of September 11, 2001, when the choice of words—by the press and government officials—played a crucial role in setting America on a course that led, ultimately, to our military action in Iraq. Martin Montgomery, a journalism scholar in Scotland, traces this rhetorical trajectory in meticulous detail in his 2005 essay in Language and Literature, the journal of the Poetics and Linguistics Association. Using newspaper headlines and transcripts of broadcast interviews and White House press conferences, Montgomery shows how the decision to describe the attacks in the language of “war,” rather than as a criminal act, emerged swiftly and organically in the earliest press accounts, and was quickly solidified and extended by President Bush and other administration officials. So that by September 13 the assumption that America was “at war,” with all of that idea’s sobering implications, was irrevocably established in the national consciousness. Polls released on September 12 indicated that more than 90 percent of respondents considered the attacks an “act of war,” and although within a couple of weeks challenges to this definition of the attacks began to appear in the press—mostly on the op-ed pages and often couched in partisan arguments—it was too late. This is not to say that invading Iraq was inevitable at this point, but it was firmly situated in the range of options that were legitimized by the notion of being “at war.” As Montgomery writes:
A world of difference exists between the dominant paradigm for considering the events of September 11 as ‘an act of war’ and an alternative paradigm such as ‘mass murder.’ Quite simply, ‘mass murder’ defines the terms of the response within the domain of police investigation, criminal justice and the safeguards of law .The discourse of war offers a quite different route. Actions and reactions are understood in military terms .Once talk of war had become established, a national enemy had to be identified .
Maybe declaring a “war on terror” was the proper response to 9/11. There is a case to be made that it was, and that the problems came later, in the bungled prosecution of that effort. (The very linguistic, and legal, ambiguity surrounding this “war,” however, has allowed the Bush administration to define the term selectively—to demand unwavering patriotism from the home front while sidestepping a formal declaration from Congress, say, or strict adherence to the Geneva Conventions.) The point is that the ready and largely uncritical embrace of the war narrative—in key realms of the public sphere—precluded the possibility of a serious public debate about other options.
What if on 9/11 our major media outlets had employed reporters whose sole job it was to cover the rhetoric of politics—to parse the language of our elected leaders, challenge it, and explain the thinking behind it, the potential power it can have to legitimize certain actions and policies and render others illegitimate? As the press and public officials struggled to find the proper language to describe what was happening on their television screens (or outside their windows), these reporters would have been scrutinizing that language, and, let’s assume for sake of argument, having their analytical work displayed prominently—on the front pages of newspapers and Web sites, and in substantial TV news segments. Such a line of inquiry would not have been a stretch, as the decision to define the attacks as “acts of war” ran counter to history. The U.S. and countries everywhere have traditionally treated terrorist attacks as a breach of civil and criminal law—the idea is to deny the perpetrators legitimacy and thereby defuse the political power of their actions. Investigations, trials, and convictions were our primary response, for instance, when terrorists brought down a Pan Am jetliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, and when our embassies in east Africa were bombed in 1998. (It’s worth noting that the bits of transcript from the White House press briefings and broadcast interviews that Montgomery uses suggest that reporters and administration officials did worry, often vigorously, over the language of war and what it meant, but mainly in terms of process—do we need congressional approval? Can you declare war on an individual?, etc.) Could such a journalistic effort have possibly changed something significant about the U.S. response?
It’s unlikely. There was something in the nature of those attacks—the magnitude, perhaps, or the audacity—that immediately made parallels to Pearl Harbor and the war that followed impossible to ignore. As Montgomery demonstrates, the press was writing the first lines of a war narrative based on little more than what we all were witnessing firsthand, and so it is difficult to argue that journalists were simply transcribing the White House’s response. Among the headlines of the 183 newspapers that published editions on 9/11 with front pages devoted to the attacks were various formulations of ANOTHER DAY OF INFAMY, in clear reference to Pearl Harbor. In its final edition that day, The Washington Post published an editorial entitled simply, WAR. By the time Bush himself described the attacks as “more than acts of terror. They were acts of war,” on September 12, the press was poised to amplify that message to the nation.
Still, the consequences of the decision to describe 9/11 as the beginning of a war rather than a criminal investigation drive home the importance of political language in a way that a similar semantic debate over “death tax” versus “estate tax” cannot. In the years since that decision, language—its uses and abuses—has emerged as a central issue in our political culture. This emergence has been driven largely by the Bush administration’s need to simultaneously wage its “war on terror” and define it, and the frustration among the administration’s critics with what they consider its aggressive manipulation of language to, in effect, create reality—to help Americans think, for example, that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11, or that we are “winning” the “war on terror.” As a result we’ve had linguistic clashes between “enhanced interrogation techniques” and “torture,” “unlawful enemy combatant” and “prisoner of war,” “liberation” and “occupation.” We’ve been told that this “war on terror” is a new kind of conflict that requires new strategies, like “extraordinary rendition” and “preventive war.”
Apologies to William Safire, but journalism needs a rhetoric beat. Yes, language has been used and misused in the service of politics since man first had both language and politics. Political rhetoric is not inherently bad, and I am not suggesting a War on Rhetoric. But there are aspects of our present political and cultural reality that underline the need for a prominent, persistent, and intellectually honest airing of our linguistic dirty laundry, and the mainstream press is our best hope for getting it.
First, we’re in the middle of a “framing war,” as Matt Bai’s 2005 cover article in The New York Times Magazine made clear. In the wake of their inability to wrest the presidency from the GOP in 2004, Bai tells us, leading Democrats in Congress embraced the concept of framing as articulated by George Lakoff, the Berkeley linguist who suggests that most thought is based not on facts but on unconscious physical metaphors imbedded in our brains. Simply put, framing involves choosing the right words to activate a desired mental “frame” or perception—“private” Social Security accounts instead of “personal” accounts, or “sectarian violence” in Iraq rather than a “civil war,” or the role of “personal responsibility” when it comes to the breadth and depth of our social safety net. The right has had considerable success at framing controversial issues for years—think “liberal media,” or those “founding fathers” in Nicaragua in the 1980s. Now the left has launched a counteroffensive.
We all frame things, often unconsciously—it is how we organize and comprehend reality. When we say, “Our relationship has hit a bump in the road,” for example, or “We’ve gone our separate ways,” we invoke an unspoken metaphor—or frame—of love as a journey, as Lakoff and Mark Johnson showed in their 1980 book, Metaphors We Live By. This largely benign aspect makes framing distinct from spin, which implies premeditation, although there is considerable overlap between the two. The rhetoric beat could take on both conscious and unconscious framing, but I am more interested in those frames that are built with language that is deliberately made overly vague or euphemistic or difficult to define precisely.
There is a substantial framing literature that the rhetoric reporter could draw on, including Todd Gitlin’s 1980 book, The Whole World Is Watching, which diagnoses the largely unspoken frames that the press applies to the world unilaterally. These media frames could be part of the purview of the rhetoric beat, as could the work of Lakoff’s critics, who suggest that in his recent role as campaign adviser he has overstated both the persuasive power of framing and its ability to cure what ails the Democrats. Steven Pinker, for instance, the Harvard psychology professor, takes on Lakoff in his new book, The Stuff of Thought, as well as in a scathing review in The New Republic last year of Lakoff’s latest book, Whose Freedom? Pinker argues that frames do not trump facts, and that frames and their implications can be tested against reality. “Even if the intelligence of a single person can be buffeted by framing and other bounds on rationality,” Pinker writes, “this does not mean that we cannot hope for something better from the fruits of many people thinking together—that is, from the collective intelligence in institutions such as history, journalism, and science, which have been specifically designed to overcome those limitations through open debate and the testing of hypotheses with data.” Sounds good, but I would add that a rhetoric beat could allow this testing to happen in an accessible and broadly public way.
Beyond framing, the Internet and digital technology generally have created opportunities to broaden and enrich public discourse. Language, Nicholas Lemann writes on page 33, is “accessible to everybody. Some users of language are more powerful than others, some are more honest than others, and some are more adept than others—but the various ways of speaking about politics can at least compete with each other in the public square, and we can at least hope that the more honest and clear ways will triumph in the end.” But the sharply partisan and uneven nature of this newly democratized public square requires an arbiter who at least strives for intellectual honesty, and I would argue that it is a job for our best news outlets. Lemann suggests that in such an environment, corrupt information is the bigger threat than corrupt language, and he may be right. But corrupt language can and often does provide cover for corrupt information. And, perhaps more important, unless this bad language is outed, so to speak, it can dominate public discourse on a given subject and preclude the serious consideration of other possibilities. Think about how the nation discussed (or failed to discuss) the prospective aftermath of invading Iraq in the months leading up to that invasion. Under the rubric of the “war on terror,” the Bush administration sold the invasion of Iraq as a “liberation,” a “cakewalk.” The Iraqi citizens, we were told, would greet U.S. soldiers with flowers. Left largely unchallenged, this liberation frame effectively undermined aggressive consideration in our national discourse of other possibilities for what could happen once we ended a brutal twenty-four-year dictatorship in a country that our leaders did not fully understand.
Finally, this problem of language is not limited to the “war on terror.” We have clashes over the language of climate change, education, religion, tax policy, social services, race, poverty, wealth, you name it. Many of these clashes are simply about competing political slogans that are transparently partisan and relatively harmless.
Other linguistic choices, however, do come with significant consequences. Consider the phrase “achievement gap,” which some critics of the No Child Left Behind law, the centerpiece of President Bush’s education policy, say has replaced the concept of “equal educational opportunity” as the guiding frame for how the nation understands educational success. In the June 6, 2007, issue of Education Week, James Crawford, president of the Institute for Language and Education Policy, a nonprofit advocacy group, traces the insinuation of “achievement gap” into the national discourse on education to the late 1990s, as then Governor Bush of Texas and his adviser Karl Rove were planning a bid for the White House in which school reform would figure prominently. Crawford suggests that Bush’s goal was to “seize an issue traditionally owned by Democrats and give it a ‘compassionate conservative’ spin. By stressing the achievement gap, candidate Bush redefined civil rights in the field of school reform.” Crawford continues:
What’s the significance of this shift in terminology? Achievement gap is all about measurable outputs—standardized-test scores—and not about equalizing resources, addressing poverty, combating segregation, or guaranteeing children an opportunity to learn. The No Child Left Behind Act is silent on such matters. Dropping equal educational opportunity, which highlights the role of inputs, has a subtle but powerful effect on how we think about accountability. It shifts the entire burden of reform from legislators and policymakers to teachers and kids and schools.
As I’ve suggested, the scope of the rhetoric beat could be defined a number of ways, but the organizing idea is to help keep political discourse as clear and intellectually honest as possible, and to make readers and viewers aware of how the seemingly benign words and phrases they encounter daily are often finely calibrated to influence how they think about ideas. That there is disagreement about to what degree language dictates thought provides the rhetoric reporter with a rich intellectual ferment in which to ground his reporting.
By tracing the history of how a given word or phrase came to be applied to a policy or action, for instance, the rhetoric reporter could make readers and viewers aware of competing ways of understanding it. Consider the anodyne-sounding “support our troops.” In the past five years, the Bush administration and its supporters have used variations of this phrase to counter critics of its policies, defining it selectively to mean that any suggestion that the military conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t going well is unpatriotic, an insult to the brave men and women fighting and dying for our freedom. Rhetorically, it was the domestic version of “you’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists.” On June 3, The New York Times published an editorial called WHAT ‘SUPPORT OUR TROOPS’ ENTAILS, which suggested, based on some excellent reporting by the Times and other news outlets, that “the administration has systematically shortchanged the wounded and maimed who make it back from harm’s way.” Certainly a different way to think about the phrase “support our troops,” and one that the administration had little use for.
In some cases, once a rhetoric reporter reveals significant problems with a phrase, it may be useful for the newsroom to develop a policy about its use of the phrase and explain that to readers and viewers. Reuters has long had a policy of avoiding “emotive” language, such as “terrorist,” unless in a direct quote, for example, and on page 34, Geoffrey Cowan describes how a key group of executives and journalists at NBC News worked through the decision to start referring to the fighting in Iraq as a “civil war,” at a time when virtually no other major news outlets were.
This beat is sure to be something of a lightning rod in our partisan and hair-trigger political culture, and so it would make sense to utilize a news organization’s Web operation to provide some transparency. Readers could see the sources reporters used to reach their conclusions, for instance, and it could also house a searchable database of words and phrases that had been taken apart. The leap, at this point, would not be so great. In recent months, both the St. Petersburg Times (together with its sister publication, Congressional Quarterly) and The Washington Post have begun online fact-checking operations for the presidential campaign. Building on the ad-watches and Web-watches now routinely deployed at campaign time, PolitiFact and The Fact Checker, respectively, are the next evolutionary step in the mainstream press’s slow and at times grudging embrace of the role of adjudicator of factual disputes. Both operations are about checking verifiable statements of fact by politicians and their supporters—and more important, rendering verdicts on the relative veracity of those statements. Neither is expressly taking on campaign rhetoric, but they could. Scott Montgomery, the politics and government editor in St. Pete who helped develop PolitiFact, said that although he and his colleagues did not discuss the idea of parsing campaign rhetoric, “Maybe we should. It’s all part of this fog of information that we are trying to get at.”
It’s too late to adjust the war frame that was constructed after the attacks on 9/11. But there is another monumental framing debate looming. For the first time since Vietnam, the U.S. is stuck in an increasingly unpopular foreign conflict with no clear way out. It is undeniable that bad information, ushered into the realm of “fact” in some cases by rhetorical malfeasance, played a central role in getting us there. Now the nation’s focus is shifting to how and when to get out and, more important for our purposes, there is a corollary need to describe the getting out. Richard Engel, NBC’s Middle East correspondent who has covered the fighting in Iraq since the beginning, wasn’t too excited by my idea of a rhetoric beat when I called him in Beirut to discuss it. “I wouldn’t want it,” he said. “It sounds kind of academic. I like to think of myself as more of a hunter-gatherer.” Fair enough, but Engel clearly has thought a great deal about the language that journalists and politicians use to describe the fighting in Iraq. Last summer he took apart the word “war” as applied to Iraq from a different standpoint in a piece for Nieman Reports. Engel, one of the few U.S. reporters in Iraq who speak Arabic, wrote that there is not the one war in Iraq that has been defined by the Bush administration—and reflected in the press—between “Freedom Lovers and Freedom Haters,” but rather “many wars, some centuries old, playing out on this ancient land.” This oversimplified frame that has dominated our national discourse about what is happening in Iraq, he suggests, muddles the effort to define success and failure. As Engel writes, “U.S. politicians and military commanders often complain that the Iraqi government ‘won’t step up and do its job.’…Perhaps the question should be, ‘Which job?’ Iraqi officials, religious leaders, militia groups, Syria, Iran, and al Qaeda are struggling and dying to get a ‘job done’ in Iraq, though it does not appear to be the job the White House would like them to be doing.”
Now, Engel says, he can see the contours of the final clash of frames (my words, not his) for the U.S. involvement in Iraq taking shape. “There is going to be an effort to make sure we don’t have a similar sense of national failure after Iraq,” he said, like the one that followed Vietnam and has persisted to this day. In the White House and the U.S. military, Engel says, the nascent message he hears is: sure, we made mistakes, but we fought an honorable fight and a good fight. We gave the Iraqis the opportunity to live like civilized people, but they were too embroiled in tribal wars that are thousands of years old.
Engel says this understanding of the U.S. role in Iraq is inaccurate to the point of absurdity, yet he worries that it will be easy for the press to fall into the trap of just repeating it uncritically to the nation. “Just as in the last few years we in the press have had to resist the formulation, ‘Iraq, comma, the front line of the war on terror,’” he says, “in the coming years we will need to resist the formulation, ‘We won the war in Iraq, but the Iraqis lost it.’”
Whether or not Engel is right, the administration will certainly attempt to frame its effort in Iraq in a way that enhances President’s Bush’s legacy. It would make a good trial run for the rhetoric beat.

What "bungled" war are we talking about?..
The one with fewer American dead soldiers than died taking Iwo Jima?...
The "bungled" war that toppled Saddam in about three weeks?...
The one that restored democracy and voting rights for women in Iraq?..
The one that has eliminated THOUSANDS of terrorists?...
Is THIS the war that is somehow taken to have been "bungled" in McLearyland?...
HUH?...
Or was it Bill Clinton's war on a Sudanese asprin factory... Or Bill Clinton's awe-inspiring leadership in Bosnia?... Or Bill Clinton's "cut-and-run" failure in Somalia?... Or his ineffective Tomahawking of Afghanistan or Iraq?
Now HERE is some "bungling" for you...
Despite this typical, CJR revisionist idiocy... The fact of the matter is that we WERE and ARE at war with terrorists who want to kill us.. And the press properly acknowledged this reality for a very brief period of moonbat-free lucidity...
The Taliban sheltered and supported Al Quaida terrorists.. Including "General" Muhammed Atta who led his soldiers into the 9/11 attacks... Saddam Hussein sheltered and supported terrorists....
That's just the reality here..
Deal with it.
Posted by padikiller
on Sun 4 Nov 2007 at 09:25 PM
what bloody planet are you on?
you're still bringing up Clinton?!?!?
i guess neocon trolls need to monitor all sites to make sure they get their distorted message out.
go back to newsbusters or conservative underground OR try to do some research and get some facts before you merely spew some Michelle-Malkin provided talking points.
Posted by thelonegunman
on Mon 5 Nov 2007 at 03:16 PM
More liberal ad hominem without a single shred of substance... If I had a quarter for everytime some moonbat responds to facts and reason by hurling out the "neocon" or "troll" epithtet... I'd be a millionaire...
Liberals really do have a pathological aversion to reality.
The FACT remains, however, that what a CJR-wannabe "watchdog" claims to be the "bungled" war in Iraq is one of the LEAST costly (in terms of casualties) wars in American history... And one of the MOST highly succesful.
Dead terrorists by the droves - CHECK
Deposed (then dead) maniacal despot - CHECK
Defeated fifth largest army in the world - CHECK (in three weeks)
Women's voting rights restored - CHECK
Fewer American dead soldiers than were killed in a SINGLE battle during WWII- CHECK
DING... DING.... DING....
That's just the Reality Bell ringing here, dude...
Whether you like or not, pal.
Deal with it.
Posted by padikiller
on Mon 5 Nov 2007 at 06:28 PM
If I had a quarter for everytime some moonbat responds to facts and reason by hurling out the "neocon" or "troll" epithtet... I'd be a millionaire...
You'd be a millionaire, too, if you got one everytime someone called you Padikiller. The fact that you're a neocon troll is no less in evidence than your username.
Liberals really do have a pathological aversion to reality.
I can't help but quote Colbert on this. "Reality has a well know liberal bias."
Dead terrorists by the droves - CHECK
Terrorists being recruited in Iraq because of the occupation and flocking into Iraq in droves just to fight the infidel. - Check
Deposed (then dead) maniacal despot - CHECK
Deposed (then dead) maniacal despot that American leadership put into power and supported throughout the cold war. - Check
Completely fabricated reasons to invade and depose said despot. - Check
Loss of American credibility and sway with allies and world governments as a whole while giving credibility to terrorist leaders to recruit with (See, just look at how evil America is having lied so they can invade and occupy a muslim country.) - Check. We're on a roll.
Women's voting rights restored - CHECK
While fueling a conflict/civil war that kills these women's sons and husbands by the tens and hundreds of thousands - Check.
Defeated fifth largest army in the world - CHECK (in three weeks)
Replacing said army with an army of disaffected Iraqi and foreign terrorist to battle in a country that had no ties to al-Qaeda until after we invaded. - Check
Fewer American dead soldiers than were killed in a SINGLE battle during WWII- CHECK
Steady trickle of dead American soldiers with no end in sight. - Check
Record low enlistment numbers for the military. - Check
Erosion of civil rights, disreguard for the geneva conventions, torture of PoWs(Enemy Combatants) by American hands and lawless pseudo-army(Blackwater) killing Iraqi civilians and bodyguards of Iraqi officials with no fear of prosecution under Iraqi or American law. - Check
Billions of dollars wasted, squandered, missing, stolen or embessled in the pursuit of a corrupt and illegal war. - Check.
Sorry, I just remembered some points you might have missed. Thought I'd fill you in.
Posted by AhmNee
on Thu 8 Nov 2007 at 06:11 PM
"Terrorists being recruited in Iraq because of the occupation and flocking into Iraq in droves just to fight the infidel" -- All the easier to kill them then, in one place, huh?....
"Deposed (then dead) maniacal despot that American leadership put into power and supported throughout the cold war. - Check" -- So?... We deposed a despot who was once useful.... So what?... This is just MORE proof that the war has been a success!
"Completely fabricated reasons to invade and depose said despot. - Check" -- Baloney -- Hell, even Hans Blix, Chief UN Pacifist, stated that Saddam was in violation of UN WMD inspection resolutions
"Steady trickle of dead American soldiers with no end in sight. - Check" -- To a partisan defeatist McLearyite perhaps... But not to most... Casualties are WAY, WAY down and residents who fled are returning to Baghdad in record numbers because the safety has improved so much recently
"While fueling a conflict/civil war that kills these women's sons and husbands by the tens and hundreds of thousands" -- TRANSLATION - We'll just ignore the inconvenient fact that the war has restored civil rights to women
"Record low enlistment numbers for the military. - Check" -- Thank goodness there have been so few casualties in this war that the military can do business with record low enlistment
"Erosion of civil rights, disreguard for the geneva conventions, torture of PoWs(Enemy Combatants) by American hands and lawless pseudo-army(Blackwater) killing Iraqi civilians and bodyguards of Iraqi officials with no fear of prosecution under Iraqi or American law. - Check" "Civil rights" under Saddam?.... LOL- That's a HOOT... NO POWs have been tortured or denied civil rights as a matter of policy... Isolated instances of abuse have been investigated, prosecuted and punished... Geneva Conventions have NOT been "disregarded" but in FACT the OPPOSITE is true... President Bush has made them applicable to enemy combatants even though he didn't believe that they were entitled to protection
Posted by padikiller
on Thu 8 Nov 2007 at 07:41 PM
"neocon troll" = Unpleasant truth-bearer
Posted by padikiller
on Fri 9 Nov 2007 at 09:03 AM
Padkiller, do you plan on graduating at some point? You've been here at least a year.
Posted by jdorsey
on Mon 12 Nov 2007 at 08:20 PM
Another case of angry liberal reality-denial...
Ad hominem is all they've got.
Posted by padikiller
on Tue 13 Nov 2007 at 07:41 AM
"All the easier to kill them then, in one place, huh?"
This is just the kind of obtuse and short sighted response I'd expect. If we're out there fighting all of these new terrorists we're helping create in Iraq, who's protecting us here at home should they decide to try something else on US soil? Our borders are unsecured, thousands of tons of cargo come in uninspected through our ports daily. The Department of Homeland Security is an ineffective den of political cronyism they can't manage to handle a domestic disaster much less stop a terrorist attack. Let me give you a clue. Osama Bin Laden is NOT in Iraq ... Iran either for that matter.
"This is just MORE proof that the war has been a success!"
You're absolutely right. The war has indeed been a success. It's been successful at weakening our national security, demoralizing the American people, draining our national coffers of a half trillion dollars and lining the pockets of political campaign contributers like Haliburton and Blackwater. Quite a success when you're not too specific about what you've succeeded at.
"Hell, even Hans Blix, Chief UN Pacifist, stated that Saddam was in violation of UN WMD inspection resolutions"
Yes. We can ignore the fact that the WMD myth was a complete fabrication if it upsets your sensibilities, Padikins. Awaken from your dreamy state, there were no WMDs. The CIA intelligence was misreported. Mistakes were made and fingers were pointed but the WMDs were a merely a carrot on a stick to get the nation to march to Bush's war drum.
"To a partisan defeatist McLearyite perhaps... But not to most... Casualties are WAY, WAY down and residents who fled are returning to Baghdad in record numbers because the safety has improved so much recently"
We know this to be true. John McCain told us as much. Of course ... he may have overstated the actual safety for the average person not surrounded by armed guards and snipers.
"We'll just ignore the inconvenient fact that the war has restored civil rights to women"
We'll just ignore the sheer numbers of innocent Iraqi civilians that have died as a result of this conflict.
"Thank goodness there have been so few casualties in this war that the military can do business with record low enlistment"
One problem there ... they can't continue to do business. You know that draw down that Petraeus and Bush have been touting? They aren't drawing down the troops. Their tours of duty are done. They have NO CHOICE but to let them come home. And they have no replacements.
"NO POWs have been tortured or denied civil rights as a matter of policy"
So called enemy combatants have been denied the right of habeas corpus. POWs have been tortured ... whether it's a matter of policy ... the jury's still out on that one. The administration refuses to define their methods of "aggressive interrogation" and will not confirm OR DENY the use of waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc. We even have an ex-president that has come forward to denounce our interrogation methods ... but he's a rotten liberal hippy. Let's not listen to him.
"Geneva Conventions have NOT been "disregarded" but in FACT the OPPOSITE is true"
President Bush caved under severe political pressure to reapply the protections of the Geneva Convention to enemy combatants. The interrogation techniques are kept under the cloak of secrecy from even members of congress with the right to know and the responsibility to provide oversight. And in any attempt to provide oversight or get answers the White House has simply refused to testify before congress. I wonder what would happen if I ignored a subpoena?
The administration continues to abuse it's power and violate the system of checks and balances put in place by our founding fathers. It's time they were called onto the carpet for it.
Posted by AhmNee
on Tue 13 Nov 2007 at 04:23 PM
AhmNee wrote
If we're out there fighting all of these new terrorists we're helping create in Iraq...
padikiller responds
This is another iteration of one of the silliest moonbat arguments in existence... That we somehow "make" terrorists with our policies...
AhmNee blathers on
...who's protecting us here at home should they decide to try something else on US soil?
padikiller responds
The Department of HOMELAND Security is... That's why we have foiled every single major terrorist plot on U.S. soil since 9/11... And why the Islamist terrorists have targeted England, Spain, the Philippines, Bali, Singapore, Thailand, the Middle East, and just about anywhere else in the world besides the U.S.- Because we are WINNING the global war on terror.
AhmNee makes a little sense, for once
Our borders are unsecured, thousands of tons of cargo come in uninspected through our ports daily.
padikiller agrees
I agree with this.. We need to fence in the Mexican border and shoot anyone who tries to cross illegally on sight... We also need to inspect each and every Walmart bound container from China (or anywhere else)...
AhmNee reverts
The Department of Homeland Security is an ineffective den of political cronyism they can't manage to handle a domestic disaster much less stop a terrorist attack.
padikiller replies
The WHY haven't the terrorists managed a successful attack in the last six years, despite their best efforts... HUH?...
AhmNee continues
Osama Bin Laden is NOT in Iraq
padikiller responds
How do you know this? One thing we DO know is that bin Laden's organization (Al Quaida) IS in Iraq and its members are being slaughtered in droves...
AhmNee drivels
there were no WMDs...
padikiller responds
First of all.... Says WHO?... No nukes were recovered, but a ton of Saddams biological and chemical weapons program components are unaccounted for...
Most importantly... SO WHAT? Saddam refused to comply with UN weapons inspections and the UN (and you liberal Democratic Congressional pals) authorized force to end his noncompliance...
This is just the Reality, dude!...
Deal with it!
AhmNee parrots the Moonbat Mantra
So called enemy combatants have been denied the right of habeas corpus. POWs have been tortured ...
padikiller responds
BALONEY!
Enemy combatants (at least non-U.S. citizens) do NOT have a "right" to habeas petitions... Again, this is just Reality calling... Accept the charges and suck it in, pal....
NO POW's have been "tortured".... At least not by Americans... Though plenty of American POW's have been tortured by Islamist terrorists.
This is just the truth...
DEAL WITH IT.
Your silly assertions are groundless... You can't name names... You can't provide a shred of evidence to back up your fairy tales... You've got a WHOLE lot of nothing... Except stupidity here..
All you have here is Hollyweird's anti-American fictitious take on the war... (A stupid position that is bankrupting the studios who are aghast to find that nobody seems to be willing to pay to watch their collective stupidity in action)
Posted by padikiller
on Tue 13 Nov 2007 at 09:03 PM
"This is another iteration of one of the silliest moonbat arguments in existence... That we somehow "make" terrorists with our policies..."
Your naivete would be quaint if it wasn't so dangerous. To think that our foreign policies and procedures don't spark anti-American sentiment and aid terrorists in their recruitment is ridiculous to the point of absurdity.
The Department of HOMELAND Security is... That's why we have foiled every single major terrorist plot on U.S. soil since 9/11
You are so completely snowed. There hasn't been an attempt to make an attack on American soil. It's been too easy to kill our soldiers in Iraq. Every independent review of our airport and seaport security has come to one single conclusion ... it's grossly ineffective. Perhaps the DHS has foiled terrorist plots by thinking happy thoughts and with pixie dust? FEMA is under the DHS umbrella and they managed to an atrocious performance both in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina and the utilization of resources for the California Wildfires. But we're supposed to believe that the DHS is more competent because ... what? It makes you feel better to believe it?
o nukes were recovered, but a ton of Saddams biological and chemical weapons program components are unaccounted for
That's because THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR PROGRAM! Saddam was NOT out purchasing Uranium or did you miss that bit of news. Italian forgeries, remember? The rest is unaccounted for because it doesn't exist. Are you actually still hoping that we'll find WMDs years after it's been established that the intelligence stating there were WMDs was embellished or outright fabricated? Wow ... just ... wow.
Saddam refused to comply with UN weapons inspections and the UN (and you liberal Democratic Congressional pals) authorized force to end his noncompliance...
Because Bush and his administration LIED about the intelligence showing Saddam had WMDs. Good lord, man! How obtuse are you? The UN, Congress and the American people were misled so that the administration could justify an unjustifiable war with Iraq.
Enemy combatants (at least non-U.S. citizens) do NOT have a "right" to habeas petitions... Again, this is just Reality calling... Accept the charges and suck it in, pal....
That's the Neocon attempt to reinterpret the intention of our founding principles. Remember the line that says "All men are created equal"? The American ideal is not to make things better just for Americans but for all people. Also, I'll remind you that some of those "Enemy Combatants" ARE American citizens and have been treated in the same manner as the non-citizens.
Osama Bin Laden is NOT in Iraq ... How do you know this? One thing we DO know is that bin Laden's organization (Al Quaida) IS in Iraq and its members are being slaughtered in droves
Now is not the time for wishful thinking, Padikins. I know that your Christmas wish if for them to find Osama sitting atop a stockpile of WMDs while wearing a "I hate America" t-shirt. Sorry, man. Santa's a saint, not a miracle worker.
NO POW's have been "tortured".... At least not by Americans...
And if you repeat it to yourself enough, I'm sure it will become true.
Your silly assertions are groundless... You can't name names... You can't provide a shred of evidence to back up your fairy tales
I don't have to. Every independant study, panel, review and congressional inquiry shows it for me and more and more gets revealed every time someone cares to look. The only question is why the hell Congress hasn't the backbone to start Impeachment hearings for both Bush and Cheney. Their ineptitude, corruption and negligence aside, they overwhelmingly do not represent the will of the American people. Period. That, Padi, is the reality.
And as a final thought:
A stupid position that is bankrupting the studios who are aghast to find that nobody seems to be willing to pay to watch their collective stupidity in action
Actually, it's an ailing economy that's affecting EVERY business across the nation. An economy that's broken because we're financing a unnecessary, money pit, quagmire of a war. But on the up side, we've helped China out tremendously. Oh ... wait ...
Posted by AhmNee
on Wed 14 Nov 2007 at 05:11 PM
More of the "Bush lied" garbage...
I've asked hundreds of times over the years for a Moonbat to show me just one of these purported "lies" regarding the decision to to go to war.... So far, the sum total response has been NADA... ZILCHO... ZERO...
Screwy liberals want to roast President Bush for relying on bad intelligence - so badly that they will simply regugitate nonsensical accusations instead of maintaining any reasonable discourse... But these daft liberals also need to give a free pass to all their flip-flopping Democrat leaders who did the same thing (or even worse)...
Pure fictitious stupidity has become the mantra of the left side of the aisle- and the party platform of the Dems..
First they claimed that Bush screwed up by not sending enough troops to Iraq... And by not spending enough money... Then we upped spending a troop levels, they flip-flopped again...
Most liberals are simply more interested in scoring political points than they are in safeguarding the nation's interests...
The truth is that reason Iraq was invaded is because Saddam failed to comply with UN resolutions... This is why both the UN and Congress voted democratically to authorize force.
This is just the Reality here...
No matter what moonbats want to believe to the contrary...
Posted by padikiller
on Wed 14 Nov 2007 at 06:41 PM
've asked hundreds of times over the years for a Moonbat to show me just one of these purported "lies" regarding the decision to to go to war.
And you've gotten it. I personally have pointed out specific instances where Bush lied. From his claims on WMDs to his baldfaced lie to the American media on the subject of Donald Rumsfeld. You of course made excuses and double talk.
I've pointed out that the lies of this administration are the president's responsibility regardless of which of his representatives regurgitated them. It can't be held against us that the truth is a bit much for you to swallow.
First they claimed that Bush screwed up by not sending enough troops to Iraq... And by not spending enough money... Then we upped spending a troop levels.
I'm missing your point here. There were not enough people to deal with the aftermath of the Iraqi invasion. There were no plans to restore the infrastructure of the country once the war was waged. Reconstruction was handled negligently and irresponsibly. Billions of dollars were wasted. That's simple enough to understand. Damage done. Then Bush wanted to throw in more troops and money despite what his own people (Lee Hamilton and James Baker) recommended in the Iraq Study Group Report.
The truth is that reason Iraq was invaded is because Saddam failed to comply with UN resolutions
Are you trying to rewrite history now? That Saddam was not complying with inspections was never enough to convince anyone that we should go to war, only that the UN should impose new sanctions. The fear that Saddam had WMDs was the trump card that convinced enough people at home and some American allies (others were STILL skeptical, I may remind you) that we needed to use military force. And the intelligence that Saddam had WMDs was exaggerated, misrepresented or outright falsified. That's a plain matter of record now. The reason congress voted to authorize force is simple. They were lied to.
Posted by AhmNee
on Fri 16 Nov 2007 at 05:21 PM
AhmNee Wrote The reason congress voted to authorize force is simple. They were lied to.
padikiller responds So was President Bush... Congress had access to the same intelligence that President Bush did.... And even more.. Plus, Congress has the power to investigate and subpoena....Liberals just have to give the UN Congress a free pass on their votes to authorize force...
Posted by padikiller
on Fri 16 Nov 2007 at 06:58 PM
Lessons learned:
1. Congress should never, under any circumstances, accept intelligence presented by President Bush without doing a full investigation themselves.
2. Bush was lied to and in his negligence, he ignored any intelligence that contradicted his preferred course of action was appropriate. He has continued to ignore congress, his own advisors and the American people. This man should not be entrusted with the power which he wields so incompetently. He should be removed from office.
I think we've made progress here.
Posted by AhmNee
on Sun 18 Nov 2007 at 05:44 AM
More ignorance from McLearyland...
The President doesn't "present" intelligence to Congress...
Both the White House and Congress receive estimates and briefings from a bunch of different sources.. The CIA.. The DIA... The NSA.. The FBI... The NRO... The State Department.
Congress has standing select intelligence committees with staff and the duty to indepently assess intelligence.
Congress looked at the SAME intelligence the White House received and made the SAME conclusion that the White House did..
This is just the REALITY here...
Grow up and deal with it.
As for President Bush "ignoring" Congress and the American people... What about the surge? Wasn't the chief gripe of the liberals that Bush didn't send enough troops to Iraq? What about Donald Rumsfeld? Didn't Bush fire him?
The war has been inarguably the most successful military operation of its scope ever conducted by any force in history...
The strategy is working. Former "enemies" are now rooting out and killing Al-Quaida terrorists in droves. Thousands of Iraqi refugees are returning to Baghdad on commercial flights because the city has become safe. Casualties are WAY, WAY down...
You are absolutely right to think that we've made progress here. We have.
Posted by padikiller
on Sun 18 Nov 2007 at 08:22 AM
Regarding the author's subject/recommendation that a 'rhetoric beat' be established at one or more major MSM outlets is excellent, and overdue. I intend to send/post a link to this article to a number of prominent broadcast journalists. Excellent piece. TY
Posted by Eric
on Sun 18 Nov 2007 at 12:18 PM
Grow up and deal with it? Heh. That's very entertaining coming from you. If nothing else, Padikins, you're worth a chuckle now and again.
Bush sold the war to Congress and the UN based on false intel. It was either done with his willfully, which all factors point toward ... or negligently which is by far a scarier prospect. That our President and intelligence gathering machine is that incompetent.
The surge was not the president doing what Congress, the American people nor his own advisors wanted/recommended. It was his too little, too late, I will not admit I screwed up effort. Again, Donald Rumsfeld ... too little, too late. Rumsfeld was dismissed because keeping him had become politically damaging to keep him. The damage Rumsfeld caused was already done.
If you actually are using the Iraq war as a touchstone for success, I am incredibly afraid of what you'd consider failure. The country is still unstable, our men and women in uniform are still dying, we've spent a half trillion dollars on that country while ignoring our own and now our economy is tanking. We turned to a communist country, China, to loan us the money to finance the Iraq debacle and now they're looking to diversify their currency holdings.
What wonderful progress indeed ... well ... for China, anyway. Americans, on the other hand are kind of screwed.
Posted by AhmNee
on Sun 18 Nov 2007 at 07:41 PM
Congress has TWO standing intelligence committees... Both with the power to investigate and subpoena witnesses..
Every Congressman gets intelligence estimates directly from the intelligence agencies, along with briefings from the White House..
Congress looked at the SAME intelligence President Bush looked at and reached the SAME conclusion he did...
If anyone dropped the ball... Congress did...
Once again... This is just the reality...
As for Iraq... We have incurred fewer casualties in Iraq than we suffered in any ONE of several battles (Iwo Jima, Normandy, Saipan) during WWI..
The war in Iraq is working...
Deal with it.
Posted by padikiller
on Sun 18 Nov 2007 at 10:29 PM
Sure, we can ignore the metric ton of information and articles written showing the song and dance the administration had to do in order to sell the Iraq War to Congress, the UN, the American people and the world.
Personally, I think one of the most telling was the account of Col. Lawrence Wilkerson on the preparation of Colin Powell's presentation to the UN.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/
Casualties are not what they were vs. the German Army in WWI? Is that really your arguement? We're doing better than we did vs the military juggernaut of the German Machine in WWI? Apple ... orange ... apple ... orange ... I just can't seem to compare the two. You trying to place the Iraqi insergants in the same vein as the German Military in WWI is downright laughable.
If it makes you feel better, Padi, we can say it together. The war in Iraq is working, the war in Iraq is working, there's no place like home, there's no place like home ...
Oh, darn. I confused your assertion that the war in Iraq is working with the Wizard of Oz. Understandable, really considering they're both works of fiction.
Posted by AhmNee
on Tue 20 Nov 2007 at 11:18 AM
Repitition For The Reality-Challenged Moonbat
Congress has TWO standing intelligence committees... Both with the power to investigate and subpoena witnesses..
Every Congressman gets intelligence estimates directly from the intelligence agencies, along with briefings from the White House..
Congress looked at the SAME intelligence President Bush looked at and reached the SAME conclusion he did...
If anyone dropped the ball... Congress did...
Once again... This is just the reality...
DEAL WITH IT...
Posted by padikiller
on Tue 20 Nov 2007 at 08:42 PM
I'd agree if you were trying to say that members of congress dropped the ball instead of deflecting blame off of the administration. There's no doubt about that. But the Iraq War was Bush's baby from the get go and he did sell it to the world on false pretenses. Anyone who disagreed with him was "unpatriotic" and "weak on terror". Him and his cronies exerted sever political pressure and steered this country into war. You can't change the facts no matter how much you stomp your feet and hold your breath.
Posted by AhmNee
on Wed 21 Nov 2007 at 02:12 PM
AhmNee Wrote
I'd agree if you we
re trying to say that members of congress dropped the ball instead of deflecting blame off of the administration.
padikiler responds
We're right back at Square One...
Conrgress gets a free pass because....
Because...
Otherwie AhmNee would have to "deflect blame" by dealing with Reality.....
Such is the state of Moonbat Politics in McLearyland....
Posted by padikiller
on Wed 21 Nov 2007 at 09:29 PM