The floodtide of e-mails and letters to New York Times ombudsman Clark Hoyt after his September 27 column on the paper’s failure to promptly investigate the conservative-initiated stories about Van Jones and ACORN testifies to the failure of the mainstream press to deal with the issue of liberal bias.
“Many readers were not buying [the] contention that liberal bias had nothing to do with the slow response to ACORN and, before that, to the resignation of Van Jones, a White House aide,” Hoyt wrote this past Sunday.
Hoyt quoted correspondence from angry Times readers: “‘So, beside Jill Abramson, Bill Keller and Barack Obama, were you able to find anyone, not resident in a cemetery, who was so tuned out?’ asked Charles Harkins of Spartanburg, S.C. Jerry Komar of Collingswood, N.J., charged that Times editors ‘hoped the story would blow over. They were caught in their own web of bias.’”
Glenn Beck, FOX, and a couple of conservative video reporters have, in effect, forced the editors and ombudsmen at two of the nation’s leading newspapers, the Times and The Washington Post, to assume a full-scale defensive posture regarding charges of liberal bias.
At the Times, according to Hoyt, managing editor Abramson and executive editor Keller have assigned an editor to keep an eye on the “opinion media.” At The Washington Post, executive editor Marcus Brauchli confessed to ombudsman Andrew Alexander that “we are not well-enough informed about conservative issues.” Brauchli announced to Alexander his intention to “challenge our reporters and editors with great frequency to look at what is going on across the political spectrum … at the extremes, among the rabble-rousers, as well as among policymakers.” Undoubtedly, Alexander (and Brauchli) are experiencing the same e-mail campaigns that plagued Hoyt.
The actions at both the Post and the Times are ad hoc reactions to the latest blow up, and do little or nothing to address the underlying reality at most papers.
The mainstream press is liberal. Once, before 1965, reporters were a mix of the working stiffs leavened by ne’er-do-well college grads unfit for corporate headquarters or divinity school. Since the civil rights and women’s movements, the culture wars and Watergate, the press corps at such institutions as The Washington Post, ABC-NBC-CBS News, the NYT, The Wall Street Journal, Time, Newsweek, the Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe, etc. is composed in large part of “new” or “creative” class members of the liberal elite—well-educated men and women who tend to favor abortion rights, women’s rights, civil rights, and gay rights. In the main, they find such figures as Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell beneath contempt.
In a UCLA study of media bias, reporters were found to be substantially more liberal and more Democratic than the public at large. Hoyt, in a column last year, acknowledged this finding: “Being human, journalists do have personal biases, and a long line of studies has shown that they tend to be more socially and politically liberal than the population at large. There is no reason to believe Times journalists are any different.”
If reporters were the only ones allowed to vote, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, and John Kerry would have won the White House by landslide margins. More specifically, reporters and editors tend to be social liberals, not economic liberals. Their view of unions and the labor movement is wary and suspicious. They are far more interested in stories about hate crimes than in stories about the distribution of income.
But, and this is a mega-but, even though the mainstream media are by this measure liberal, ending the discussion at this point would be a major disservice to both the press and the public. While the personnel tend to share an ideological worldview, most have a personal and professional commitment to the objective presentation of information, a commitment that is not shared by the conservative media. FOX News, The Weekly Standard, National Review, The Washington Times, Drudge, The Washington Examiner, The American Spectator, CNS News, Town Hall, WorldNetDaily, Insight Magazine are all explicitly ideological. FOX makes the bizarre and palpably untrue claim of ideological neutrality, “We Report, You Decide”—a claim it violates so routinely that no one takes it seriously.
While the mainstream media often fail to live up to their own standards, their committed pursuit of neutrality and objectivity is crucial to the quality of American journalism. That commitment is the main reason the mainstream press is so intensely sensitive to allegations of bias. The refusal of mainstream media executives to acknowledge the ideological leanings of their staffs has produced a dangerous form of media guilt in which the press leans over so far backward to avoid the charge of left bias that it ends up either neutered or leaning to the right. This happened at The Washington Post and was reflected in weak and sometimes fawning coverage, first of the opening years of the Reagan administration, and even more so during George W. Bush’s first term—when not only the lead-up to the Iraq invasion but key domestic initiatives went largely unexamined, with disastrous consequences.
So, to quote Lenin on behalf of the mainstream media, What is to be done? There are a few things.
An important first step is to abandon the notion, popularized by Thomas Frank in What’s the Matter with Kansas?, that white working class voters are suckers, willing to cast ballots against their economic interests because corporations and evangelical Christians have scared the bejesus out of them with phony issues like gay marriage, abortion, government takeover of the healthcare system, and distribution of condoms in the schools.
- 1
- 2



Mr. Edsell,
Thank you for writing a much needed piece.
However, in your slam against Fox News, you neglected to mention that Hanitty on Tuesday had on Michael Moore and O'Reilly hosted Medea Benjermain (of Code Pink).
Can Olbermann and Maddow say the same?
And if Newspaper Editors look, there are platforms where Conservatives are learning about reporting and editing (and about being neutral in news stories, but always wary of Power, which is where modern news is failing today -- see the NYT).
Two questions. One for Mr. Edsell and one for the CJR Editors:
Mr. Edsell, when "Republicans," or "Conservatives," are quoted, usually they are people who are not known or active within the political spehere. In fact, those usually quoted take the contrary positions of actual activists. This never happens with Liberal and Democratic Party activists.
What will it take for News Reporters and Editors to find actual activists on the Republican and Conservative side?
Heck, if you guys need one -- I'm here. I can direct you to others.
My next question is to CJR:
Will you invite journalists from Pajama media to write here as well? And will you use them as source material regarding the Right's views?
#1 Posted by JSF, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 11:30 AM
You say "The mainstream press is liberal." And you also say "the press leans over so far backward to avoid the charge of left bias that it ends up either neutered or leaning to the right."
If I call myself a vegetarian and believe with all my heart that eating meat is both immoral and unhealthy, but I enjoy a nice steak dinner twice a week, does it make sense to refer to me as a vegetarian?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200910080038
#2 Posted by Jamison Foser, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 06:02 PM
JSF: Olbermann, no, but Maddow regularly invites conservatives onto her show. Most ignore her requests. A few, however, have picked up the gauntlet, including Rick Berman on Oct. 6.
#3 Posted by Catbus, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 06:41 PM
The lack of coverage by whatever "liberal" paper you wish to choose should not be politics. Liberal thinking should not leave morality to everyone else. As my son told me in high school I may be a liberal political voter but a very conservative teacher in my methods and demands for student output. Those ladies in ACORN were not only unprofessional in their actions, they were both unethical and immoral in setting someone up for taxation for prostitution etc. My bigger complaint with ACORN is the lapses of oversight by management. None of this would have happened in Baltimore, Virginia or San Diego if the management were checking and also re-teaching the necessity of professional ethics on the job. If Wall Street CEO/CFO's forget their ethics in time of money, one can hardly expect every person off the street or out of high school will understand what must be done in terms of taxation or other unsavory actions someone comes in to talk with them. Those are the situations that they call the manager to handle. Cell phones make contacts much easier and if they can't contact them, they must ask the person or persons to return at another time. Reputations of persons or organizations take years to build up and one incident to demolish. NY Times reporters may have been late but none of them specified the illegal and unethical actions. One would think analysis at this time would have worked better than simple facts that most people already knew.
#4 Posted by Patricia Wilson, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 06:57 PM
The Fallacy of Begging the Premise, meet Thomas Edsall. Thomas Edsall, meet The Fallacy of Begging the Premise. You two should REALLY get to know one another. Because anyone who says the press leans right while saying the "press is liberal" has obviously never become acquainted with The Fallacy of Begging the Premise.
Good grief. When will a stake finally be driven through this dopey, RNC-sponsored idea that all that really matters is the ideology of the reporters themselves, and not, you know, the actual work product that the reporters, their editors, the managing editors and the publisher produce. Seriously, when?
#5 Posted by SB, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 07:13 PM
This article is simply stunning in its myopia.
Why did the NYT ignore the Great Acorn Scandal? Because Acorn has received $53M from the US over a decade. The documented videos showed a risk that a few tens of thousands of dollars might by misused. Total.
Now: How much did Halliburton, Boeing, Lockheed, any one of the top 10 Katrina no-bid contractors, or the worst of Duke Cunningham's cronies steal? In each case, easily at least $10M. EACH. And we don't know how much, because there hasn't been much investigation.
So the NYT was exercising good news judgment. It has nothing to do with whether or not college educated newspaper reporters tend to think like other educated Americans.
Such as stupid, stupid article that is simply a disservice to truth and proportionality in news reporting.
#6 Posted by Dollared, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 08:13 PM
Thomas Edsall is a deranged fruitcake. That this moronic fraud would write in the Columbia Journalism Review, I think, is an embarrassment.
At the same time Nixon speechwriter Pat Buchannan first put forth the Myth of the LIberal News Media, the right wing was busy buying up media outlets. Journalists may be liberal in their private opinions but owners of the media are ultra-right wing -- and journalists bend over backwards trying to pander to the conservative think tanks and pundits who dictate how issues are framed.
Using the ACORN story as your litmus test is just stupid. This was something that was blown way out of proportion by the right wing media. To accuse anyone who thinks that Bush et all might have looked the other way when they saw the 9-11 attacking coming is evidence of liberal bias is simply accepting right wing doctrine as truth. Cheney and the ultra conservatives are perfectly capable of such extreme deception.
As I note in my book Politics in the Human Interest, you can’t know what’s going on and not be somewhat liberal in your views. That is why both social scientists and the physical scientists are more liberal than the general population.
Similarly, journalists who explore issue in depth find that the conservative mindset of individual responsibility, cutting taxes, ignoring social causes, abolishing social programs and relying on prisons and the military to make people behave is ideology and does not fit the contours of most social problems.
Mr. Fruitcake, aka Edsall, does journalism a disservice.
Bill Du Bois, Ph.D.
#7 Posted by Bill Du Bois, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 08:16 PM
I was honestly suprised by your story. It is finally refreshing to hear that yes you do hear us (American Citizens) when we say just give us the truth. Infact it's so simple, I don't know why the so called "mainstream media" didn't get it sooner. Although you took shots at Fox News that I believe are unfair. Yes, they do lean to the right, but they also report both sides of the story. The "mainstream media" leans way to the left and stays there, stuck and doesn't report the whole story. The American People just want to come home from a long day of work (if they are still working) and watch the news, get the truth and the facts. More Americans watch Fox News because they do give the truth and the facts. You certainly do not give Americans enough credit. Have you been hiding under a rock? Most people know not to believe everything you hear. I believe I learned that in the 1st grade. We actually know how to go to the library to research on our own, imagine that! Cross reference stories that we're not so sure about. Talk with our friends and neighbors about the "things" that are on our mind. The "things" we worry and wonder about. The American People doesn't need news stations to waste our precious time with half of the story. We don't even have time for all of the story. Just give us the facts and report the truth and there will be nothing more to discuss. Journalists have a great job that I admire. I wouldn't feel good about myself if I only got paid for my opinion. That is NOT what journalism is about. If you want to give your opinion, write a book and see how many people buy it. Glenn Beck did and look how many copies he sold! ;)
#8 Posted by Christine Brennan, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 08:34 PM
Wow. What an incredible bunch of nonsense. The mainstream media are "liberal" because on ACORN and Van Jones they echoed the extreme right's talking points somehwat slowly rather than immediately as they usually do? By all means, hold ACORN to account for any misdeeds by some of their employees, but would how do Edsall and other rightwing nutcakes feel about holding say, Blackwater or Cigna or United Healthcare or Lockheed to the same standard? Edsall flatly states "the mainstream press is liberal." Poppycock. Oh, but a 4 year old UCLA study co=authored by one Jeffery Milyo (put Milyo in the search box at www.bradblog.com to see what kind of sefl-fulfilling 'studies' he does) proves it because reporters are "more liberal and Democratic", as if those were the same thing these days, than the public at large. How about their bosses, the owners of the mainstream media. CJR could do better than publish this nonsensical crap.
Tom Klammer
www.tellsomebody.us
#9 Posted by Tom Klammer, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 10:45 PM
"More Americans watch Fox News because they do give the truth and the facts."
Chistine - More Americans watch Fox News because the most knowledgeable audience has abandoned television news as a source of information. Thereby making Fox king of the less-discerning viewers. I'm not sure congratulations are in order.
#10 Posted by Duncan, CJR on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 11:57 PM
A typical newsroom atmosphere isn't exactly welcoming to conservatives who are mocked, criticized, shunned and, the best part -- either not hired or not promoted.
Much like academia, journalism is self selecting and, as such, most conservatives either select out or eventually leave. I've seen it at numerous news outlets.
So this fantasy of liberal superiority in the newsroom is rooted in a pretty institutional bias against the right. That said, thanks for being honest about how left wing the media really are.
#11 Posted by Dan Gainor, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:14 AM
The idea of the press"bending over backwards" to hide its liberalism reminds me of the story of this man, who was so dirty that he had to wash very often so that no one notices.
#12 Posted by Christophe Thill, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 06:28 AM
For those who are shopping for a good college education for their children, let the record show that it was Oklahoma State University that issued a Ph.D. to Bill Du Bois, whose above criticism of Mr. Edsall's thoughtful and balanced editorial was to call him "a deranged fraud" and "Mr. Fruitcake."
Professor Du Bois, the admissions departments at every other university in the Sooner state owe you a debt of gratitude for your public act of devaluing an OSU degree and giving them a better shot at top high school graduates next spring.
#13 Posted by L.N. Smithee, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 06:53 AM
Mr du Bois- your idiotic reduction of American conservatism to "individual responsibility, cutting taxes, ignoring social causes, abolishing social programs and relying on prisons and the military to make people behave" shows your incapacity to delve outside the constraints of your own bias to consider other people's points of view, and thus your lack of that admirable liberal trait of "empathy and [...] willingness to see the good in human nature." You do your profession a disservice by showing to the rest of the world what the academia produces: facts in service of callous name-calling and partisan cat-fighting. Give us facts and thoughtful analysis man, not divisive witticisms.
To all- read the article and stop picking and choosing which facts you want to absorb. The writer clearly argues that "the press leans over so far backward...that it ends up either neutered or leaning to the right" on the premise that "most [of the liberal media] have a personal and professional commitment to the objective presentation of information, a commitment that is not shared by the conservative media." The existence of a liberal media is not disproved by its extreme contortions to showing the other side of the political spectrum. Only, that it endangers the existence of a liberal media by not standing up for its own biases. Bottom line, liberal media is more preferable from conservative media because of its committment to fairness, but only as long as it fully commits to that fairness. The "liberal media" being a myth or not is secondary to the idea that all members of the media have their biases, and it is in the reader's and publisher's benefit to highlight these biases instead of forcing a "bland, forced neutrality."
#14 Posted by John, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 07:44 AM
Conservatives are so obsessed with this silly "liberal bias" idea that they are now stripping "liberal bias" out of the Bible. Yes, that's right. The Bible. Because, I guess, Jesus, that long-haired, sandal-wearing ex-hippie must be too commie-socialist now for the rightwingers -- you know, he shared his fish and wine and told us all to love our neighbor and do for the "least" of us. THAT'S LIBERAL!!!!! AND FEMININE!!!! Get rid of that liberal bias!
Conservative Bible Project - Conservapedia ah hahahahahahaha! How looney is that?
Oh, they didn't write fast enough for your taste about the resignation of a minor official in charge of energy jobs? They didn't write fast enough about a couple of rightwing operatives dressed up in clown outfits trying to get local front-office workers in a community-based organization to mess up on the tax advice they gave? You know, maybe those were stupid, minor, uninteresting stories to us NORMAL people, especially with serious domestic problems like a recession, two wars, and a myriad of other actually noteworthy, serious ACTUAL news items that reporters needed to cover. Doh-hhh!
#15 Posted by Tom, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 08:28 AM
Mr. Edsall makes some very good points, but risks his credibility by citing that widely discredited UCLA study. The methodology on that study is so seriously flawed, it's is actually laughable. However, IF more journos vote Democratic, which I don't accept and noone can prove, it doesn't follow that their actual reporting output is biased. In any case, voting patterns aren't the same thing as bias in news writing.
There is no "liberal bias" in the mainstream media. Conservatives are always whining about "liberal bias" yet when you ask them to point out "liberal bias" they can't do it. Because it doesn't exist in the mainstream media. To conservatives, reporting on anything that the Conservatives DON'T LIKE constitutes "liberal bias." Stating an opinion that Conservatives DON'T LIKE is "liberal bias." Not jumping up and saluting the confederate flag and immediately reporting stupid conservative obsessions on demand is "liberal bias."
I can definitely show you where mainstream national news media is biased on the conservative side. You have business reporters, you don't have labor reporters, for example. You have a 3:1 Republican-to-Democratic representation on all of the news talk shows. It is common practice in news talk shows to allow the Republican to have both the first word and the last word. You have a Washington Post that is literally LARDED with neoconservatives with NO liberal columnists. Even the vaunted NYT has only one real liberal columnist, Paul Krugman.
You have about ten ex-Bush officials such as Perino, Townsend, Rove, as "news analysts" on CNN and MSNBC, to say nothing about FOX. You have rightwing extremists as exec news producers on CBS and ABC. Charles Gibson and Brian Williams are known to be Republican, as is David Gregory, who can't suck up enough to every Cheney advocate or Republican in Congress. You have NO liberals as network anchors, nor on CNN. On CNN you have Campbell Brown married to a rightwing operative, Kyra Phillips as a rightwing operative, and Wolf Blitzer, who hosts three Republicans to every Democrat, is also an outright rightwing sympathizer. You have Bush operative Fran Townsend outright advocating for and serving as spokesperson for Dick Cheney in her CNN position as "news" analyst. The only neutral, unbiased CNN anchor is Anderson Cooper. Even NPR is larded with frank, outright rightwing operatives. And let's not even go into the frank rightwing bias in Time Magazine and Newsweek. Even the so-called "liberal" MSNBC has three hours of conservative Scarborough to three house of "liberal" news shows.
Show me where mainstream media is "liberal biased." You call it "biased" but you can't demonstrate it, because it doesn't exist. Now you want to talk about Huffington Post and Talking Points Memo, yes, those news organizations have a liberal bias, which they proudly acknowledge. And Politico and Drudge have a well-known rightwing bias. But you can't point to actual "liberal bias" is mainstream media. Quite the opposite, in fact.
#16 Posted by James, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 08:43 AM
The article is about how crippled and blinded the mainstream media is by its own liberal bias, how these things routinely skew their reporting…yet the guy still can’t resist a dig at conservative media’s “bizarre and palpably untrue claim of ideological neutrality”.
Here is an idea…stop crying about the guys consistently exposing your own ideological bias and get your house in order. THEN we can talk about the conservative media.
#17 Posted by RAB, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 09:29 AM
James,
Check this out.
Most Americans see press as liberally biased (Pew):
http://people-press.org/report/543/
Journalist donated money to Democrat causes and candidates by a 9-1 ratio in 2006 (also known as "follow the money"):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113455/:
Is it just a coincidence that most of the public sees the press as liberal AND that the press donates overwhelmingly to Democrats and liberals politically?
Or is it everyone else's imagination that we need you to save us all from?
#18 Posted by Good Lt., CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 09:30 AM
Thank you for an insightful article. You are correct; we are not "suckers", ill-educated, unread, country rubes who inhabit the vast "fly-over" region of the country. You are correct also regarding the "routine" coverage we see and read daily. I used to believe that a liberal bias alone drove the coverage and treatment of the stories I saw at 6pm and 10pm, and read in the local newspaper. Today, I think it's more than that. As I watch the local newscasts and read the local paper, I wonder why the reporters do not ask the really relevant questions and the follow-up questions. A case in point: I called a local station a few years ago to inquire about a story of a local activist group demanding more money for city libraries even in the face budget shortfalls. In the story, the group's leader was given a pulpit to promote the cause, giving all the reasons the libraries should get the money when all other aencies were having to reduce spending. My question to the producer was, "Why did the reporter not ask the spokesman where he thought the extra money would come from; a tax increase or take the money from another agency?" The producer hesitated and then replied, "We're not supposed to take one side or the other," as though posing a tough question would be cconstrued as being "against" the group and its goals.
The locals are not well-educated in their own craft or in the areas they are assigned to cover, and specifically they seem to have abandoned critical thinking in favor of currying favor. They are busy trying to move to larger papers or bigger markets. Their allegiance is to their own careers rather than a professional creed. Sadly, they are losing credibility each day with their audiences. Even sadder is that they do not realize it.
#19 Posted by D.Matthews, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 09:48 AM
Hey Tom,
Did you miss the part where Jesus said "give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime." I'm so sick of libs saying how generous and caring they are. It's not generous or caring if the government forces you to do it. It is if you do it on your own, and if you caught the 20/20 segment a while back, you would know that conservatives, by a large margin, are more giving of what they have than libs.
Conservatives are so obsessed with this silly "liberal bias" idea that they are now stripping "liberal bias" out of the Bible. Yes, that's right. The Bible. Because, I guess, Jesus, that long-haired, sandal-wearing ex-hippie must be too commie-socialist now for the rightwingers -- you know, he shared his fish and wine and told us all to love our neighbor and do for the "least" of us. THAT'S LIBERAL!!!!! AND FEMININE!!!! Get rid of that liberal bias!
Conservative Bible Project - Conservapedia ah hahahahahahaha! How looney is that?
#20 Posted by Michelle, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 09:54 AM
What's up Good Lt. my fellow HotAir reader!
You should know better to fight a liberal with facts.
#21 Posted by uknowmorethanme, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 09:59 AM
In the midst of observing the fact of liberal media bias, Tommy types: "FOX makes the bizarre and palpably untrue claim of ideological neutrality, “We Report, You Decide”—a claim it violates so routinely that no one takes it seriously."
...and conveniently "forgets" to document the proof for his claim.
Probably the same way the liberal media "forgets" to mention the party affiliation of Democrats when they are caught misbehaving or breaking the law.
#22 Posted by Hyman Roth, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:05 AM
Sure, go ahead and embrace your liberal bias. Let it be the lead weight around your neck bring about the ultimate end of liberal main stream media. You are correct when you say conservatives are not baffons or sheep. Personally I'm a College graduate in finance and engineering. I am a Christian and a conservative. The only use I have for liberal media is to help police fake "conservatives" beyond that I think Liberals are anti-American and anti constitution with the exception of 1st and 5th amendment. Until you come around you will continue to be run out of business and called out for the bed of lies that you espouse or cover up to suit you and your agenda.
#23 Posted by MarkR, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:15 AM
It's Fri Oct 9. Upon awakening I read this column and another about Obama being awarded the Nobel prize. I am now trying to survive having nearly drowned in my corn flakes from the laughter occasioned by these two fraudulent stories. This column is simply further evidence that liberals are indeed the inhabitants of some weird, alternative and dangerous universe. The Nobel folks, in their cynical attempt at manipulating the world scene with bogus prizes, instead show themselves to be utterly delusional. God help us all.
#24 Posted by Truth Searcher, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:15 AM
Mr Esall - Outstanding piece. My biggest gripe with the liberal media has always been their failure to admit their bias. If they simply admitted their leftwing views then I would care less.
For example I was watching PBS's (great) piece "Inventing LA/The Chandlers." It was buring me up as the narrators continued to describe the Chandler family as "right wing" (which they were) while referring to the new direction under Otis Chandler as "centrist." Which it was not. It was iberal. This is the fraud that burns conservatives about liberal media bias.
#25 Posted by Jeff, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:20 AM
"FOX makes the bizarre and palpably untrue claim of ideological neutrality, “We Report, You Decide”—a claim it violates so routinely that no one takes it seriously."
Prove it.
Straight news blocks, not talk shows (Beck, O'Reilly, etc.)
#26 Posted by texican, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:26 AM
Your entire argument is based upon the assumption that admittedly liberal media maintains a standard of impartiality in reporting the news and choosing which news to report. Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth, making your entire article a useless effort.
#27 Posted by Jenny Ling Po, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:33 AM
I know we're human and it's difficult to remain unbiased, but I miss the "just the facts" type of reporting. As it is, I don't trust any mainstream source of the news. I have stopped watching the news. I have stopped reading the news also - and that includes The Times and Newsweek which I have read all my life. Don't wonder why subscriptions have gone down. Subscriptions have gone down because we don't trust the source of our news. So now I get my news from different sources (especially International) available in the internet. If ever our mainstream news becomes news instead of biased opinions I will come back. For now, it is just pathetic and just plain wrong, especially because I don't like to be manipulated.
#28 Posted by Mary, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:42 AM
@Good Lt.
What I said was, you rightwing buffoons cannot ever SHOW any liberal bias. You don't even know what liberal "bias" is. YOu can't even define "liberal bias." You think it is a story that you don't like. You think it is an opinion that you don't like.
You rightwing lunatics are always spluttering about "liberal bias" and you can never demonstrate it. You can never prove where it exists. The way people vote or don't vote is completely irrelevant, and a stupid, nonsensical argument. You people just blather on making sweeping, fact-free statements without any evidence whatsoever as is apparent in this thread.
Show me some liberal bias in the mainstream media. Go ahead.
#29 Posted by James, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:46 AM
A moronic column. "Their ideology does not seem to make for good journalists".
So an unshakable belief in centralized government power does make for good journalists, but a healthy skepticism towards that does not.
Why waste words, a truly moronic piece which nails the real problem of contemporary American journalism, stupidity amazingly combined with arrogance.
#30 Posted by johnt, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:56 AM
"FOX makes the bizarre and palpably untrue claim of ideological neutrality, “We Report, You Decide”—a claim it violates so routinely that no one takes it seriously."
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
No one take Fox seriously, but the Fox show "Red Eye" has better ratings in the wee hours of the morning than CNN, HLN, and MSNBC combined in their best hours in primetime? Fox News does, of course, do both news shows and opinion shows. What distinguishes Fox from CNN. HLN,MSNBC, and the lame stream media as exemplified by the NYT is that Fox doesn't try to blur the lines between news and opinion. You, Edsall, are a purblind fool, only slightly less foolish than the purblind fools of the lame stream media, led by the leftist ideologues at the NYT.
Fox is popular because people believe they get something far closer to fairness and objectivity there. The lame stream media is falling into irrelevance and bankruptcy because people are tired of being misled, misinformed, and uninformed by the profoundly and pervasively leftist and liberal propaganda the former titans of the press have been spewing like nauseous drunks for decades.
I have known since the early sixties that the so-called professionals of the so-called news media could not be trusted, when the reporting on the Viet Nam War diverged spectacularly from the information I got from veterans who had been in theatre. No one I know who has the capacity for critical thought takes the news at face value, but considers the source and conducts further research from a variety of sources whenever the subject commands sufficient interest.
Edsall, you might as well put a seashell at your ear and report what you hear as publishing the end-product of the liberal meme digestive tract that apparently resides behind your eyeballs.
#31 Posted by novaculus, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 10:59 AM
This is where you lost me:
While the personnel tend to share an ideological worldview, most have a personal and professional commitment to the objective presentation of information ....
Objective presentation of information MY ASS.
#32 Posted by Mister Tan, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 11:05 AM
I was tracking with you until you referred to the potential for Govt takeover of Healthcare as a "phoney" issue.
#33 Posted by jack tatum, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 11:11 AM
The fact that this was meant as a "thoughtful" piece, as opposed to "parody" is a bigger indictment of the Media's failures than their actions.
#34 Posted by Mondo Frazier, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 11:37 AM
Instead of attack the mainstream media for its supposed "liberal bias," this writer should examine the blatant ideological opinions passed off as "news" by Fox, WorldNet Daily, and their ilk. Spreading false information promoted in order to influence public opinion or the government is a dangerous trend in journalism.
Their assault on real journalism has been well established in the documentary "Outfoxed." A recent Pew poll found Fox ‘News’ viewers came in last regarding their comprehension of national and international affairs. And Mr. Edsall wants reporters to pander to their audience by offering more of the same? God help journalism and the Fourth Estate.
#35 Posted by MC Burton, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 11:39 AM
Liberal James, you want some examples of liberal bias. Here are 5 off the top of my head:
1. Dan Rather fakes documents to further an Anti-Bush story.
2. ABC gave Obama an entire hour to talk up his healthcare reform, but refused to give even a few minutes to a dissenting viewpoint or even allow commercials from opponents of the reform to air.
3. Wolf Blitizer on CNN "fact checked" a SNL skit on Obama, something that NEVER happened when Ferrell was doing his Bush impersonation.
4. Positive coverage of Obama during the election was double or triple those for McCain in all main stream media outlets. The actual figures vary, but it was a large margin.
5. Anderson Cooper referred to those attending Tea Parties as teabaggers, an overt seedy, sexual reference that had nothing to do with the story of why those people gathered together in protest.
There are 5. I can't take the time to go through all. The sad part is, many times the liberal bias is simply omission, or pointed adjective, or telling adverb.
Liberal James, you probably won't care about this and will laugh off my examples. If facts were the main issue, you would not have made your comments.
And for the "doctor" with his book, to stated that "you can’t know what’s going on and not be somewhat liberal in your views", you are quite the egotist, aren't you? What is "going on", doctor? Please inform those of us who just aren't smart enough to be liberal. I've always heard that if you are 20 and conservative you have no heart, but if you are 40 and liberal, you have no brain. My experience is that liberals don't live in the real world.
That is why demographics show that liberals are at the two extremes: poor and rich. Why? Because these are the extremes that government policy doesn't affect them adversely. For the poor, it is entitlement. For the rich, an additional tax won't hurt them. It is us in the middle class that suffer the most from liberal policy. Those that have struggled daily throughout our levels to better our situation, who have worked long hours, who have sacrificed certain luxuries in order to make a better life for ourselves, only to see our money taken away and given to somebody we don't know to give them something that we worked and paid for. No, on the contrary, doctor, WE are the ones who know what is "going on", despite the liberal media trying to keep it from us.
#36 Posted by Conservative James, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 11:44 AM
Mr. Edsall, thank you for some insightful thoughts, but I will prod you to go one level deeper and ask, "What is objective reality? This is the heart of the political debate as well as the cultural/religious war in which we find ourselves.
Everyone has a worldview. To deny this and claim total objectivity is to delude oneself. The best any of us can do is to understand our own viewpoint and those of others and to declare our own biases. (I hold a Biblical, conservative Christian worldview. That is my starting point.) When presented with factual information, we automatically classify and attempt to understand the new input in light of our basic worldview.
We are dealing with four groups of people in the U.S. today: (1) traditional Biblical (including orthodox Judaism and most of Islam) holds that there is one God, creator and ruler of the universe, who governs our lives and establishes absolute standards of truth, morality and conduct in general, (2) secular atheism/existentialism, developed in its present form by the 19th century German philosopers (Hegel, Nietzche, Marx) and French writers such as Sartre, and (3) pantheistic monism, primarily Hinduism and Buddhism. In the political realm, the first worldview gave us modern Britain and the U.S.. The second was the philosophical basis justifying tyrannical despots such as Hitler, Lenin and Stalin in the West, and Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il Sung and Pol Pot in the East.
What most journalists miss is that these viewpoints lead to opposing conclusions in the modern political context, but each is logical if you work from their starting assumptions about reality. Thus, most writers characterize political conservatives as uneducated, simple-minded and easily led. While this may be true of some of their followers--as well as the followers of liberal and hard left politicians--it completely misses the point when describing the conservative leadership.
It also explains why Christians and Orthodox Jews generally see Islamic fundamentalists in a different light than other writers. Ironically, we understand them better, because we share a common set of starting assumptions, and it is primarily in the understanding of the nature of God and His attitude toward people that we differ, leading us to opposite political conclusions, e.g., liberty versus Sharia law.
Much of contemporary Western liberal philosophy is based on ideas that are fundamentally Hindu in origin, now couched in western terminology. This was first brought to the West a century ago by Swami Vivekananda and popularized in the 1960s by the Beatles and their guru, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. This worldview believes that people are fundamentally good at the core, and it is the illusions of this world that make us do bad things. Communism combined this with some Christian ideas and led to the prevailing view that mankind is inherently good, but is corrupted by his environment. If you could just create a utopian environment, everyone would behave well. The empiric evidence shows that this has never worked. Every Communist state has degenerated into a corrupt mess.
The Bible teaches that people, though originally designed to be good, were corrupted by the entry of sin into the world. Since then, no one can be good, no matter how hard they try. This leads to an inherent distrust of political power. It was the reason why the authors of the U.S. constitution painstakingly established a system that separates power and provides checks and balances. This has now been short-circuited by the consolidation of power by one political element in the executive branch, with willing support from Congress and to some extent the Supreme Court.
I challenge you to contemplate these ideas and further editorialize on the subject once you have done so. Scientific and Medical journalism has taken pains in recent years to require authors of peer reviewed papers to consider and declare their conf
#37 Posted by THF, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 11:46 AM
Lib James, what color is the sky in your world?
#38 Posted by CraigC, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:11 PM
I can't believe that anyone thinks there's a conservative bias, at least in the face of the massive NYT-WaPo-Boston Globe-etc. megaplex. MSNBC/NBC, CBS, ABC are completely in the tank for every liberal tool that comes down the pike.
Journalists--and I am one myself--are by and large VERY liberal in their worldview. I grew up in a newsroom during the early years of Reagan, and I can tell you truly that, just like there are no atheists in foxholes, there are no true conservatives on the editorial boards. Just varying degrees of liberals.
For moonbat James, here's an example of liberal bias: in the varying scandals involving politicians, how many times do you see a Democrat labeled with a (D) next to his or her name? If it's a Republican, there's ALWAYS an (R) on the screen. If you like, I can pull tape and send you a disc.
#39 Posted by Ron, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:18 PM
Diversity should be a major objective of any news gatherer. The old press is a chorus. At least Fox has something different to say.
#40 Posted by Gulfport, Florida, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:20 PM
To the defenders of the big urban media institutions on this thread - Edsall is only the latest writer who (a) has worked inside such an organization, and (b) is open about his own left-leaning political orientation, who is honest enough to concede that American political journalism is much more sensitive to 'liberal' issues than 'conservative' ones, and that it distorts political reporting, especially in its ability to accurately predict trends. For example, liberal activists just got through the hate-crimes bill with aid in keeping the issue alive from the big newspapers. The problem is that those papers know who Matthew Shepherd was, but Jesse Birkhising is a nobody to them. Just one example of what the media's consumer activists are talking about.
There are no, zero, 'conservative' writers who have said flatly that 'the media' leans Right. Nor are there former reporters, with conservative leanings, from mainstream media organizations, who have defended the big outfits against this charge. On the other hand, there are liberal writers who have conceded this charge - The NY Times' own ex-ombudsman, in his valedictory, said as much. More recently, he has asked an interviewer to face reality and accept that journalists are among the Democratic Party's most loyal occupational constituencies, and that this does present problems, notably a double standard in deciding what is important to consumers and voters. 'Conservative' trends therefore come out of nowhere, such as the resistance to Obama's health care plan, and orthodox journalism has to scramble to explain it. Sometimes in their embarrassment, they resort to the partisan condescension of which Edsall writes. Leftist activists are an urban journalist's friends and neighbors. These people at Town Hall dust-ups - they seem alien and frightening to urban journalists.
The mutual antipathy between conservative America and urban journalism - reporters, after all, being urban middle-class folk, a demographic coterminus with the most partisan Democrats - is part of the furniture of American politics, and has been at least since Eisenhower criticized the press at the 1964 GOP convention. Or you could go back further to Edward R. Murrow's soldierly efforts against the Republican Party, which are cited as journalism. Allan Drury's 1959 novel 'Advise and Consent' also glancingly portrays Washington reporters as cheerleaders for liberal causes. I still don't agree with Edsall's analysis in many ways, but at least he gets beyond the huffy defensiveness of liberal reporters and their liberal constituency among consumers to engage the issue.
Anyone out there who professes to disbelieve by the 'liberal bias' charge who claims to be solidly on the political Right? I didn't think so. Only the Left defends the mainstream media against this charge. Gee, I wonder why?
#41 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:36 PM
Dear colleagues,
This is strictly an American journalism-related story, but how come that the WSJ was included among mainstream liberal papers?! Consider just James Taranto's obsession with so-called left-wing conspiracy embodied in the NYT and his"former Enron adviser Paul Krugman", repeating it day by day as a mantra ...
Sincerely,
Dusan Babic, media and political analyst, Sarajevo,
Bosnia-Herzegovina
#42 Posted by Dusan Babic, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:42 PM
There was a time that news media was trusted, probably because there were few alternative sources, and news media could control what was known.
If every reporter/journalist bent over backwards to present all sides of every issue, there would still be editors filtering the news. Most of us have learned to read the bias in wording, framing, and most importantly, what is not covered at all. The stories completely ignored are indicative, and since we do have alternative sources of information, quite revealing. Expecting us to believe they ignore stories like Van Jones because the issue only interests fringe kooks implies, once again, that they think we're stupid and will believe anything.
To much of the public, the news media during the last election took the role of cheerleaders, rather than responsibly provide information. If, for instance, the question of Obama's background and associations had been honestly researched and presented, the course of the election could have been entirely different.
The topics in which the research is not done, the information is not presented, are the topics which could favor conservatives and/or the GOP. If editors and management wanted it to be fair, they could make it so. In fact, they are driving their own demise by not doing so. As a business model, this is insane.
Are we to believe ideology trumps competent business judgement? A reputation, once lost, is hard to regain. Unless they have the expectation of support from sources other than their customer base, these business models are suicidal. Somehow I doubt the public will support a bailout for news media. Dereliction of responsibility should not be rewarded.
#43 Posted by jodetoad, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:51 PM
"While the mainstream media often fail to live up to their own standards, their committed pursuit of neutrality and objectivity is crucial to the quality of American journalism."
Bullshit. They're no less advocates for their pet causes than are Fox News, WorldNetDaily, et al; they just try to couch it in neutral terms.
#44 Posted by Jeff, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 12:57 PM
If the nedia is so liberal, why did the New York Times and Washington Post smear and lie about Bill Clinton and Al Gore?
#45 Posted by Alan Snipes, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:05 PM
Rather's producer Mary Mapes spent 5 years trying to get the goods on George W. Bush's National Guard service. Then Mapes and Rather go with a story using blatantly phony evidence that was blasted out of the water in a day by real experts on the internet. Stories like this are why conservatives like me no longer pay a penny for the liberal news baloney. I subscribed to the local paper, Newsweek, and Time for years, but they will never get another nickel out of me.
#46 Posted by Mkelley, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:08 PM
It is not that conservatives can't make good journalists, they just don't get hired.
#47 Posted by Srednas, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:18 PM
In order for Conservative reporters to meet your idea of non biased, they would have to "Agree" with the insanity of Liberalism, that's not non biased it's just understanding the facts and refusing to play make believe for the Liberals.
On the other hand the Liberal media continuously misrepresent the FACTS, and that is the Problem.
Bias is not the biggest problem, it's that truth has no place in modern Leftist journalism, it's all propaganda all the time.
#48 Posted by Durward, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:24 PM
I watch Fox News regularly. I also read the NYT, HuffPo, WaPo, WSJ, and at least a couple dozen columns weekly, spanning the spectrum from Maureen Dowd to Ann Coulter.
What I've observed is that if I ONLY watched Fox News, I would hear every fact that I hear elsewhere, and most of the arguments from both sides. Are the hosts of the commentary shows biased right? Make no mistake; they don't claim to be objective, they are COMMENTARY. But they always have representatives from the left on to make their case, and almost always give the lefty the last word. Also, anyone who thinks Shep Smith is a right winger is nuts, and (now retired) Brit Hume was probably the best newsman since Cronkite took sides on Viet Nam.
I'd like Fox to be a little more frank that most of their people lean rightward to various degrees. But to imply that they fail to deliver all the facts is just plain wrong.
#49 Posted by RegularJoe, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:32 PM
>>If the nedia is so liberal, why did the New York Times and Washington
>>Post smear and lie about Bill Clinton and Al Gore?
>>Posted by Alan Snipes on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:05 PM
To what lies, specifically, do you refer?
#50 Posted by RegularJoe, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:36 PM
"most have a personal and professional commitment to the objective presentation of information"
My paraphrase:
"Oh, we're biased, but at least we try harder not to be biased. Not like those other guys who really are biased. See the speck in their eye! See! Sure, we've got a plank in our eye, but we try harder!!!"
So much horsehockey.
#51 Posted by Chris, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:37 PM
The left media dares not directly include mainstream conservative views/articles/opinions on their sites and in their newscasts.
Instead they offer cynical characturized versions of those views in an effort to discredit and marginalize.
All the while trying to wear the mantle of impartial purveyors of fact.
#52 Posted by biff, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:42 PM
I guess if you rightwing lunatics think the BIBLE has "liberal bias" then it's pretty hopeless that any of you can deal with actual facts about the media. You truly do live in your own little world, and getting smaller by the day.
#53 Posted by James, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:44 PM
RIGHT WINGLUNATICS RIGHTWING LUNATICS THATS ALL I CAN SAY UR STUPID IM SMART CUZ I LUV BARAK OBABA DURRRRRP
#54 Posted by James, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:59 PM
>>I guess if you rightwing lunatics think the BIBLE has "liberal bias" then it's
>>pretty hopeless that any of you can deal with actual facts about the media.
>>You truly do live in your own little world, and getting smaller by the day.
>> Posted by James on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 01:44 PM
Um.. huh?
I'm a rightwinger alright, but far more importantly a saved-by-grace born-again washed-in-the-blood believer. If I thought the Bible had a liberal bias, then I'd assume God has a liberal bias, so I would need to be liberal as well. I don't think any such thing, nor does any conservative Christian I know.
I'll tell you who DOES think that: Barack Obama does. So does Michael Moore. I figure any lefty who believes he's following the Bible must think that. So I guess you're saying that they live in their own little world? I agree with you; but I'm confused why it is a liberal would agree with me on this.
#55 Posted by Joe Baker, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 02:12 PM
From FAIR's Blog:
CJR's Bogus 'Liberal Media' Evidence
Tom Edsall argues that the mainstream media should just own up to the fact that they're liberal. This comes as a response to the notion that the elite press missed out on the ACORN and Van Jones stories--a dubious premise. But Edsall doesn't make much of a case. He writes that before 1965, "reporters were a mix of the working stiffs leavened by ne'er-do-well college grads unfit for corporate headquarters or divinity school." Since then, however, the elite press "is composed in large part of 'new' or 'creative' class members of the liberal elite." Edsall's version of liberalism, then, is an elite strand focused mostly on certain social issues--his list is "abortion rights, women's rights, civil rights and gay rights."
Those seem like majority positions, but never mind. Edsall offers one concrete example:
The study in question is the famous (and famously complicated) one that found that Fox News Channel's Special Report was centrist, and the Drudge Report leaned left. That should be enough to dismiss it on its face, but it's worth pointing out that that study did not tell us anything about "reporters" per se; they studied how often outlets cited particular think tanks, and ranked those think tanks on an ideological scale based on which politicians cited those groups (i.e., a liberal lawmaker drops the names of liberal think tanks; the frequency with which that think tank is cited in the media tells you how liberal the outlet is).
That the roundabout methodology of the study produced such bizarre conclusions is one reason not to cite it, but it also wasn't a study of what Edsall claimed it was--that is, of reporters' own political sentiments. But there are such studies. In fact, FAIR released one in 1998, where journalists' views on important economic policy questions were compared with public opinion poll results on the same issues. Journalists were, it turns out, well to the right of the public on most issues; when asked to classify themselves, the majority were center-left on social issues, and center-right on economic issues. But the main finding was this:
In other words, the research that Edsall wants to cite exists; it just mostly contradicts his premise.
#56 Posted by Peter Hart, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 02:13 PM
Looks like our 19th century ancestors were a lot smarter than we are. They didn't expect journalists (i.e. "the media") to be unbiased. They only hoped they would tell the truth, and expected them to be open about their biases.
All of the "conservative" (as seen from a perspective anywhere to the right an anarcho-communist) strive to tell the truth, and are open about their biases.
The MSM generally strive to tell the truth, but don't acknowledge their biases. They will reference a liberal think tank or activist organization with no mention of their leaning, whereas a conservative organization is always identified as such. They will identify pro-abortion entities by the entities preferred moniker, "pro-choice", but frequently refer to pro-life organizations as "anti-abortion." (note: deliberate irony there)
So, when you "consume" media, just know that even if you're getting the truth, the combination of explicit and subconscious bias by the media provider, material selection, and the constraints of knowledge (i.e., they ain't omniscient) means that you won't be getting "the whole truth."
#57 Posted by Bikerdad, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 02:22 PM
Mr Edsall. The fact that your name is a homophone for a famously failed Ford product
should not becloud my opinion of you. No,
it is your navel-gazing introspection that
seems to give you a catharsis, while it gives
me a sense that you still don't get it, and
never will. You Libs live in bubbles. What to you seems a window to the outside world is
really a mirror. The "truth" that lies outside
the bubble will forever be beyond your ken.
But keep trying. It makes for entertaining
parody for the rest of us.
#58 Posted by Trajan, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 02:54 PM
Bikerdad reminded me of a little game played on one blog I read (hotair.com) called "name the party". When there is a negative story about a politician, if it is a Republican the party identification is immediate, while if it is a Democrat it is either omitted entirely, or at least below the fold. Often Democrat congressmen are identified as "Rep. Johnson", which has the fringe benefit that some uniformed people will think "Rep." means Republican.
Conversely, Democrat affiliation is prominently heralded in positive stories, while Republicans' affiliations are less evident.
Watch for a few days, and see if I'm not right (I am).
#59 Posted by RegularJoe, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 02:58 PM
>>Get rid of that liberal bias! Conservative Bible Project - Conservapedia ah
>>hahahahahahaha! How looney is that?
>>Posted by Michelle on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 09:54 AM
Wait, James -- is THIS what you're talking about? Okay, these guys are infantile nuts, and certainly not mainstream, either as conservatives or Christians. have no understanding of Biblical exegesis at all. For one thing the Bible doesn't deal with politics AT ALL. It is about personal conduct. It's about morality. Once we understand what it says about personal conduct, it is human nature to try to extrapolate a political viewpoint from it; but that invariably carries more of our own biases than anything actually present in scripture.
#60 Posted by RegularJoe, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 03:00 PM
Oops. Full disclosure: "Joe Baker" is me. No sock-puppetry intended; I just accidentally gave my real name instead of my handle. Probably no one cares, but I didn't want to be guilty of any deception, conscious or otherwise, so far as I can help it.
#61 Posted by RegularJoe, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 03:03 PM
Just a couple issues here because there are too many to take them all on.
1. Stupid is the inability to learn. Ignorance is the ability to learn but not employing that capability. Many Americans are ignorant because knowledge takes time and curiosity and they spend their hours in front of the tube, the video game ... anything but educating themselves, even on issues about which they have strong opinions. 2. Labels like liberal and conservative or left and right wing are ways to simplify the complex for lazy minds. Labels include slogans, bumper sticker philosophy and the shouting rages and rants used to counter another's point of view without having any substance to back up what is being shouted. The point being that I have never been able to classify individuals as one label or the other because a person differs based on the issue under discussion. Additionally, people who profess to be a specific label do not necessarily represent their true selves or foretell the actions they will take.
#62 Posted by Dwight Bobson, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 03:14 PM
I don't know what you're trying to say there, "Dwight", but you sound like just another rightwing lunatic to me.
#63 Posted by James, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 03:43 PM
You still don't get it- you slam Fox News for allegedly being "explicity ideological"- what about MSNBC? You name the Weekly Standard and Amercian Spectator- what about The Nation? Or Time? You name Drudge- what about the Huffington Post?
Case closed. Kind of like the minds of too many in journalism.
#64 Posted by Howee Carr, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 03:54 PM
James, I'm betting Dwight is an "independent" -- a supposed pragmatist who weighs every policy in a vacuum, with no ideological framework to speak of.
#65 Posted by RegularJoe, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 04:01 PM
This was at the end "the fact is that there are very few good conservative reporters. There are many intellectually impressive conservative advocates and opinion leaders, but the ideology does not seem to make for good journalists"
My goodness what an incredibily biased putz. Only liberals can be good reporters?? What the hell is up with that?
You all on the far left are incredibly funny.
#66 Posted by WJ, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 04:07 PM
Anyone who can't see the liberal bias in the media is blind, deaf, & dumb.
#67 Posted by b berg, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 04:28 PM
Yeah, Fox News is unbeievably biased. why, they have only the following liberal hosts for their news and commentary: Chris Wallace, Greta, Geraldo, and Shep Smith, and they never have liberal guest "regulars" EXCEPT for Juan Williams, Mara Liasson, Kirsten Powers, Katrina Van Den Heuvel, Lamont Hill, Alan colmes, Ed Rendell, Bob Bickell, Ellis Hennican, David Corn, the Code Pink leader Medea Benjamin... .....
Please put a similar list of conservative hosts for CNN and MSNBC here>>>>
And OF COURSE no self-respecting liberal politician would ever appear on such a biased network, except for a large majority of Dem senators such as Hillary, Barack, Levin, Schumer, Baucus, Hegel, Lieberman, Biden..... Ditto the House leadership, Charlie Rangel, Gerald Nadler, and bazillion other lib congressmen.
Finally, there's this small matter of what the liberal "news" media refuse to print. Fox ran with the Van Jones story, with the ACORN fraud story, with many other stoires and scandals the libs would rather not talk about, INCLUDING the real nature of the "health care reforms" that helped lead to the Townhall revolts.
Meanwhile, Fox News soars in audience , while the other guys are sinking like stones. "Doing well is the best revenge".
#68 Posted by Anna Keppa, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 04:30 PM
Answer to Dusan Babic
"This is strictly an American journalism-related story, but how come that the WSJ was included among mainstream liberal papers?!"
---------------
The report from which this comment was based had evaluated news stories, not opinion pages. There is no doubt that the WSJ has right-leaning op-ed pages, but the news reporting team was found to have the same biases and tendencies in their reporting as the NY Times and Washington Post.
#69 Posted by Bill H, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 05:40 PM
I have worked for two traditional newspapers, more than 15 years, and there is without a doubt an overwhelming liberal presence in both newsrooms. It's palpable. You see it and feel it, in every budget conversation about the newsworthiness of a particular story, in jokes and off-hand comments, in casual friendly conversations, and in each decision regarding when and where a story should be played in the newspaper and online. It's a constant drumbeat of affirmations that the media is liberal-leaning. When you're a conservative with a heavy libertarian bent, like me, you become acutely aware of it. But when you're liberal, it's hardly noticeable because it's business as usual. It's the same reason I read HuffPo, the NYT opinion page, Slate, etc., to challenge my presumptions and convictions and to understand what it is that I DO NOT believe and why. I always prod my liberal friends on the topic of challenging their presumptions by consuming conservative media, and to a person, no one does. That kind of willful ignorance is what leads a journo like WaPo Executive Editor Marcus Brauchli to say "that we are not well-enough informed about conservative issues. It's particularly a problem in a town so dominated by Democrats and the Democratic point of view." This is simply astounding for a journalist to say. There are two parties, and by and large, two ideologies at war daily in the chambers of political institutions around the U.S. How can a top editor say journos aren't well-enough informed about conservative issues when they are so absolutely vital to the national debate, when half the electorate holds those views? How can you report on AN ISSUE AT ALL when you don't know enough about one of the sides? The truth, cold and hard as it may be for many to swallow, is that the majority of journalists simply are either sympathetic to liberal ideals in their presentation of the news, or worse, are outright activist, and/or are oblivious to conservative issues and how to cover them based on a disinterest, lack of understanding or hostility to those issues. And finally, thank God for the Internet. Fifty years ago Rather could have pulled off his "report" because there were no alternative voices to vet his "objectivity." With no dissenting voices, the masses accept what they're told. Look at English translations of Arabic media and its consequential effects on the populaces there sometime. Scary, scary, stuff. I'm not sure the mainstream media is imploding because of liberal bias (it likely has more to do with the changing consumer landscape and business models), but it sure isn't helping matters. Thank you for a great article Mr. Edsall.
#70 Posted by Tim, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 06:56 PM
Tim - exact same situation here. I've spent my life in and around the media. Anyone who says our media institutions don't have a liberal predilection have simply never worked in a newsroom.
One quibble though. The author suggests the media has gotten more liberal. In fact, the opposite is true. Through the 1960s and 1970s -- the Walter Cronkite Era -- the media bias was so pervasive that very few ever questioned it. It just wasn't an issue.
OK, another quibble. Pretty grievous error of the author to call out the conservative OPINION media in a vacuum -- as if there wasn't a liberal OPINION media (New Republic, etc etc etc) right alongside it.
- Alaska Jack
#71 Posted by Alaska Jack, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 07:32 PM
NewsBusters: Veteran Post Reporter Says Media Should Own Up to Liberal Slant
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-waters/2009/10/09/veteran-post-reporter-says-media-should-own-liberal-slant
#72 Posted by StewartIII, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 08:29 PM
How the fuck does this type of article get published at CJR? If I understand Mr. Edsall's argument: the press are liberal, but only socially liberal. In other words, he could have just as easily said, the press are conservative, but only economically conservative. His choice of frame betrays his wholesale adoption of conservative media messaging.
Equally inane is his evidence for liberal bias in the press. He focuses on ACORN, but then concedes that the liberal media "leans over so far backward to avoid the charge of left bias that it ends up either neutered or leaning to the right." In other words, he focuses his article on a couple instances of apparent liberal media bias, and then in one sentence glosses over YEARS under Reagan and an ENTIRE TERM under Bush in which the "liberal" media leaned to the right. And that is by his own concession. He wholly omits the unconscionable treatment of Clinton and Gore by the MSM (see Conason in today's Salon and The Daily Howler basically every day). Based only on the evidence in this article, how could any sane person reach the conclusion that the media has a liberal bias?
#73 Posted by Matthew Pierce, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 09:34 PM
Man!
The "professional journalists " have their pitchforks out on this one!
Mr. Edsell is "idiotic", "inane" and a "deranged fruitcake" for pointing out what every single academic study ever undertaken has confimred - that the self-proclaimed "journalists" are much more liberal in general than the average Americans are.
Notice that the journo types who are crying and gnashing their teeth the most, make no mention of Mr. Edsell's reference to these academic studies. They're still convinced that the ACORN story wasn't "really" a story because... because.... they don't care about liberal corruption. The mere fact that millions upon millions of readers DO care about such corruption doesn't mean a damned thing to these liberal idealogues. They're not here to write the news, they're here to decide for us what the news is supposed to be. And they got away with this Orwellian co-opting of the media until the blogosphere and talk radio exposed their malfeasance.
#74 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 11:21 PM
And while I appreciate Mr. Edsall's honesty, I can't buy into his assertion that liberals are superior writers and the solution to systemic liberal bias in the media is better management. To my mind, that sounds like so much window dressing. It sounds like an editor advocating, "Hey look, it's okay to have a liberal bias, but for god sake be sure to throw an occasional conservative bone out to there. Even the Bible thumping neanderthals in flyover country need to feel validated."
The fact is that our country has been evenly split along ideological lines for decades, and this is a healthy situation which should be celebrated. Mark Twain once quipped, "When you find yourself in agreeing with the majority, it's time to reflect". What is unhealthy is that this demographic split is not factored into the business model and hiring practices of the news industry. Don't tell me that they can't find good conservative writers in a pool of a hundred and fifty million right leaning citizens. Hiring managers obviously don't want to, even if it means alienating half of your potential customer base in a time when readerships are declining, and advertising revenue has been dried up by Craigslist.
The key to future success in the news business is to simply report the facts and leave interpretation to others.
#75 Posted by fapo, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 01:07 AM
Maybe journalists need to go to "reeducation classes," the way that people in the workplace are forced to go to diversity training?
#76 Posted by elizabeth, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 08:37 AM
"Although it is the subject for another essay, the fact is that there are very few good conservative reporters. There are many intellectually impressive conservative advocates and opinion leaders, but the ideology does not seem to make for good journalists."
You have got to be kidding me with this statement! He provides no basis for making that opinion. Alll you can say really is that anyone with conservative ideology realizes how alone he or she will be in the offices of mainstream media. This is why James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles went to Breitbart to get their ACORN video sting reported. And these two are definitely not seasoned reporters. So, unwittingly, it speaks negative volumes about the lack of quality of the so-called journalistic education of mainstream journalists, since they failed for so long to see the an opportunity to expose the corruption Joe Mainstreet knew existed in ACORN. The mainstream media was not going to touch it because ACORN benefitted Democrats and Liberals, period. So, while this article had promise, this last statement alone on its face is so ridiculous that I consider it a waste of space and time for them to have printed it, we to have read it and even to have commented on it. By the way, I am an African-American, evangelical Christian with an MBA. Not the normal profile of those "undeducated, easily led" blah, blah, blah...
#77 Posted by M. Hunter, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 02:00 PM
At least Mr. Edsall acknowledged the truth of liberal media bias. Heck, even my father (a former N.J. Democrat office holder) admits this obvious reality.
Posters who deny Mr. Edsall's conclusion of bias are either disingenuous, ignorant or cognitive dissonance is at work.
#78 Posted by Scotty, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 03:40 PM
You had me until the very last paragraph. 'Very few good conservative journalists'? Really? The good ones over the past 50 years have been what, liberal? How would you know the former, since, as you've pointed out, the overwhelming number of "journalists" are liberal, and their bias is so obvious as to be impossible to ignore? Wouldn't that bias, in and of itself, constitute something other than good journalism?
The issue with the NYT, WaPost isn't that they're insufficiently 'tuned in' to the conservative media; you are either blind or willfully ignorant to believe that they really didn't know of Van Jones' bizarre past, or ACORN's pimp-consulting activities. They knew full well, but neither fit their narrative, and they ignored them. What can be done? It's being done. The incredibly self important, arrogant profession is rapidly winding down, as alternative media provides unfiltered access to the public.
#79 Posted by Bob C, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 04:37 PM
Mr. Edsall, can I point out your complete logical fallacy?
Allow me to edit two sentences of your piece:
"Since the [Armistice], the press corps at such institutions as [insert names of newspapers in Berlin, Munich, Hannover, Hamburg] etc. is composed in large part of []well-educated men and women who tend to favor [democratic political systems, civil rights, and a free press]. In the main, they find such figures as [Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Joseph Goebbels and Ernst Rohm ]beneath contempt."
Let me try again:
Since the [end of WWII], the press corps at such institutions as The Washington Post, ABC-NBC-CBS News, the NYT, The Wall Street Journal, Time, Newsweek, the Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe, etc. is composed in large part of well-educated men and women who tend to favor free press, freedom of religion, and civil rights]. In the main, they find such figures as [Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn] beneath contempt."
I shouldn't have to explain your logical fallacy to you, except that journalism does not require training in logic. It is true that a large majority of reporters favor certain views of the the world. The issue is that they are right, objectively. The Right is a swamp of denial of objective facts, from the bankruptcy of lassiez faire economics and the ineffectiveness of pure military power to bring peace and prosperity to the world, to the stupidity of abstinence sex ed. and the silliness of pretending that evolution lacks sufficient scientific credibility.
The fact that reporters recognize that many positions of the Right are contrary to objective facts is not evidence of bias. It is evidence of intelligence. They do not have to play "on the one hand..."games with reality.
Unless, of course, they listen to you and Sean Hannity. Learn this, or quit your job and start writing for Red State.
#80 Posted by dollared, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 07:13 PM
You'd have a point, dollared, if the Left actually did favor freedom of religion. Unfortunately, it's downright Wahhabi-esque about its enforcement of its chosen religion: political correctness.
The Left also tends to be a swamp of denial of objective facts, be it the abject failure of this insane religion of theirs or the ridiculous notion that the current corporatist system in America (which has been propped up by the Left as well as the Right) is somehow true lassiez faire capitalism.
#81 Posted by Jeff, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 08:46 PM
dollared babbled: "The Right is a swamp of denial of objective facts, from the bankruptcy of lassiez faire economics and the ineffectiveness of pure military power to bring peace and prosperity to the world, to the stupidity of abstinence sex ed. and the silliness of pretending that evolution lacks sufficient scientific credibility."
padikiller responds: "Pure military power" ended WWII, put an end to the Cold War, sent Osama bin Laden scurrying under a rock, and put Saddam into a spider-hole in a barn.
The "stupidity" of teaching abstinence is stupid.... Why? Huh? Abstinence unquestionably prevents pregnancy and STD's. What makes advocating a sure-fire preventative policy, stupid?
The only gripe Mr. Ed has left is the creationist bent of many people who lean to conservatism. This ignorance is found on the left - according to Gallup, nearly 40% of Democrats believe that God created the world 10,000 years ago.
But all of this is a dodge.
Reporters are supposed to "report", not "discern" or "explain".
#82 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 10 Oct 2009 at 10:32 PM
If I sat for days in deep research trying to find a better example of an unhinged, unthinking liberal rant than DOLLARED's, I couldn't. Pure, unfounded arrogance, the worst kind of arrogance. Journalists are liberal because left-wing political philosophy is correct and right-wing political philosophy is incorrect? I don't call people ignorant often, but you, sir or madam, are an imbecile of the highest order if you really believe that this is a zero sum debate. The ideological war of the left vs. right, or collectivism vs. individual liberty, or state power vs. limited state power, or whatever you want to call it has been raging since societies began governing themselves. You either have never taken meaningful history, political science, economics and philosophy classes or read any books on those subjects, or you're a teenager or young 20-something, in which case you're excused for your post. I can't recall who said it, but someone once posited that young people are always ready to give you the full measure of their experiences. If you're not a kid, I pity you and am embarrassed for you. The person who thinks he/she understands but really doesn't is destined to mistake passion for enlightenment. Foolish pride is a dangerous thing which keeps multitudes unawarely in the dark, far from genuine understanding.
Your apoplectic rant reminds me of the headline in one of the British rags when George W. Bush won his second term, "How can 55,000,000 people be so dumb" or something to that effect. Now THAT was the height of blind ignorance. Rather than admit that HALF THE FREAKING ELECTORATE has conservative convictions that run deeper than any one politician, hyperventilate, and dismiss it as stupid, dumb, wrong, ignorant, whatever, ala Bill Moyers or Bill Maher. Now doing THAT is truly ignorant. I will never dismiss the likes of Stephen Breyer or Obama or Barney Frank or Chuck Schumer or Paul Begala as dumb or wrong in their reasoning on matters of politics. They're all fairly brilliant in their own vein. I disagree with them on nearly every matter, but they're not wrong in an objective sense, because objective truth is impossible to achieve outside of the hard sciences, contrary to your claim. You learn that in Philosophy 101.
I don't mean the following to be condescending, I really don't, but you need to read "A Conflict of Visions" by Thomas Sowell. Yes, he's a conservative, but the book is not a right-wing screed. The NYT book review gave it a positive review for just that reason. The intellectual underpinnings of both left-wing thought (humans and society are perfectable; achieving that perfection means government engineering society and the economy to achieve complete egalitarianism and equality) and right-wing thought (humans are innately fallible and corrupt and safety/security is paramount; government needs to be small and have many checks and balances for this very reason; little to no social/economic engineering is tolerated because true egalitarianism is impossible) is explained crystally. You can say wealth redistribution to the have-nots is PREFERABLE to Social Darwinian right-wing economic theory as the organizing principle of society. You can say social engineering by government is PREFERABLE to letting the fate of the citizenry play out unabated. You can say peace through capitulation is PREFERABLE to military deterence (by the way, your claim that military power never brings peace and prosperity to the world is just flat bizarre - ever heard of World War II? That war did just that). You can say believing the idea that one's environment combined with scientific determinism is the impetus for all human behavior is PREFERABLE to believing the individual is ultimately responsible for his/her actions regardless of life/situational circumstances. But there is nothing objectively "wrong" with conservative reasoning, espoused for centuries by far greater thinkers than you or I.
#83 Posted by Tim, CJR on Sun 11 Oct 2009 at 04:08 AM
I noticed that in ALL of the comments about this article, that as far as I can see, no one mentioned this quote: "...An important first step is to abandon the notion, popularized by Thomas Frank in What’s the Matter with Kansas?, that white working class voters are suckers, willing to cast ballots against their economic interests because corporations and evangelical Christians have scared the bejesus out of them with phony issues like gay marriage, abortion, government takeover of the healthcare system, and distribution of condoms in the schools..." On the next page he says: "The mindset that perceives these voters (whites) as dumb jerks is what permitted a reporter and a series of Washington Post editors to let a description of evangelical Christians as 'largely poor, uneducated and easy to command' go unquestioned into a front-page story." Then he goes on to say: "Along the same lines, reporters might consider carefully the question of why the party of the left in this country, the party that claims to represent Jane and Joe Sixpack, has such trouble winning the votes of the white working class. The answer may lie more in the issue of redistributed benefits than in a right-wing conspiracy."
I just simply wanted to comment on those statements above about Thomas Frank, and Edsall's own opinions after that, by Edsall. Why would the author continue to comment on "white working class voters", when there are OTHER groups within that "working class" framework who are NOT white, but who believe exactly the same way: do not like the "liberal media", who watch Fox News and other conservative media, and who are "evangelical Christians? Not all Blacks, Asians, Native Americans, etc. are liberals, and many are evangelical Christians. Many of these groups watch Fox News and listen to other conservative media as well. For Edsall not to further clarify Frank's statement is in itself a misconception. Most of these other "working class" groups feel and react the same way, have the same feelings about issues based on their occupatons and mode of living. So why not simply clarify it into "working class people" instead of just "white" working class? This may seem to be nit-picking, but it is important. So he (and Frank and others) need(s) to get off of the assumption that we are only talking about whites when we are talking about conservatives, or non-liberals, or evangelical Christians. Ever watched the Republican National Convention, or noticed the chairman of the Republican party??? Duh, there are quite a few non-whites in the group! Why does the "party of the left" ALSO have such trouble with these folks, and not just "whites"???
Edsall should have said "The group of working class people as a WHOLE watch the news and then decide, sort through for themselves this news and phony issues, and then make their own decisions". He didn't need to continue the exclusive Thomas Frank misconception of "whites only" in his statement about this, and why the "party of the left" is not reaching out to ALL of these Americans in the working class. I'll say it again: Edsall goes on to make his own non-inclusive misconception of a misconception!
That's all I wanted to say on this, everyone else has said everything else far more intelligently than I.
#84 Posted by Caranina, CJR on Sun 11 Oct 2009 at 10:40 AM
The national media is clearly not economically liberal, but definitely socially liberal. Through the years I have come to the conclusion that the media's favorite type of candidate is a social liberal who is firmly committed to an internationalist foreign policy and free trade but who is basically a thoughtful moderate when it comes to questions of American intervention, and is a deficit hawk. The national media spends far too much time focused on deficits, the Dow Jones, and tax policy as opposed to focusing on the issues of stagnant wages and growing income inequality which would be of much greater concern to a true liberal.
#85 Posted by Tom Kephart, CJR on Mon 12 Oct 2009 at 03:40 AM
What exactly does it mean to be "socially" liberal without being "economically" liberal? What's the difference between this silly, self-contradictory stance and the ridiculous notion of "compassionate conservatism"?
If the point is that the self-proclaimed "professional journalists" of the world substantially share Bush's philosophy.... Well, then you guys are off your damned rockers.
Most of the journalists of the MSM are just plain ole' liberal. Socially. Economically. Politically. Period.
#86 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Mon 12 Oct 2009 at 08:17 AM
No the Mainstream Elite Media is not liberal across the issue spectrum. They tend to be very liberal on social issues, but far more supportive of global free trade and Wall Street than "average Americans." They tend to be much more focused on deficits and taxes and less on the problems and anxieties that stagnant wages and the decline of American industrialization and manufacturing have created in the past 25-30 years for ordinary less-highly educated "working-class" folks. Any national politician or commentator who criticizes "free trade" whether it be Pat Buchanan from the right, or Senator Sherrod Brown from the left, generally gets blasted by the national media.
The media's inattention to and ignorance of the potential problems of financial deregulation as occurred from 1985-2005 was a primary contributor to the economic collapse. Had the national media not been so blindly pro-market, pro-Greenspan, and unwilling to cast a critical eye toward bond traders, stock manipulators, oil price speculators, and derivatives dealers prior to the Lehman Brothers collapse, some of the most catastrophic economic effects that have been endured in the past year may have been avoided.
#87 Posted by Tom Kephart, CJR on Mon 12 Oct 2009 at 12:57 PM
Edsall clued folks into what it means to be socially liberal without being economically liberal. The national media tends to be wary and even resentful toward unions, who after all tend to represent the economic interests of lesser-educated workers from less privileged backgrounds. The national mainstream media, especially the elite media of the NYT and Washington Post and the TV Networks other than Fox and even most opinion journals, tend to be much more protective of Wall Street and corporate interests who tend to be rather privileged folks economically. Their favorite type of politician who they generally shower with much undeserved fame and adulation is the "deficit hawk." The media tend to be pro-international trade, pro-Wall Street, pro-market and pro-big corporations.
The elite media tend to be much more comfortable with the corporate special-interest lobbyist who looks and talks more like they do than the union leader or assembly-line worker or coal miner whose language usage and physical appearance or mode of dress may not be quite so elegant. This leads to the elite media failing to support the economic interests of the middle class and working class and instead supporting policies that tend to benefit the wealthiest among us and perpetuate vestiges of privilege.
#88 Posted by Tom Kephart, CJR on Tue 13 Oct 2009 at 03:35 AM
According to the author's definition of liberal, I could support both Bush's war in Iraq and his tax cuts to the wealthy, but my sympathy of gay rights would make me a liberal. Brilliant.
#89 Posted by Alex, CJR on Tue 13 Oct 2009 at 02:18 PM
One key difference that typically distinguishes them from conservatives is the liberals' characteristic inability and/or refusal to rely on logic to analyze a situation or event. Liberals believe they should be driven by their hearts rather than logic, as you admit. The vast majority of liberal journalists could not possibly pass an undergraduate logic test, including, for example, you, Mr. Edsall.
#90 Posted by Bill Long, CJR on Tue 13 Oct 2009 at 03:15 PM
The American mainstream media is controlled by the Left, but owned by the most reactionary Right. Which means that either the Right is stupid, or the Left is actually playing their game.
The American Left is a mirage, an illusion created by the most reactionary Right. All of the American Left's dearests goals: abortion rights, women’s rights, civil rights, gay rights, gun control, global warming, Darwinism and evolution, sustainability, not to mention their battles against nuclear power, oil production, use of DDT, U.S. sovereignty, etc., only benefit the people the Left claims to hate: Wall Street bankers, oil magnates and transnational corporations.
The “new” or “creative” class members of the liberal elite, who consider themselves well-educated men and women, are actually a bunch of brainwashed fools whose main job is, wittingly or unwittingly, playing the game of their political and ideological enemy. The most recent proof of it is their adoration for their beloved Obama, an obvious agent of the empire who sold his soul to the most reactionary Right.
#91 Posted by Pancho Perico, CJR on Tue 13 Oct 2009 at 10:31 PM
I was skeptical when I began reading this piece---and then completely dismissed it when I arrived at this sweep of Mr. Edsall's broad brush:
"Unlike upscale youngsters in Cambridge, the Upper West Side, and Berkeley, who are equipped financially and psychologically to go with the sexual flow, the children of folks casting ballots for Republicans...."
I live in Berkeley, my kids were born and raised in Berkeley. Edsall doesn't know the first thing about them, their circle of friends or the other kids who they've grown up with. I'd be interested to know about the last time he's ever talked with anyone from this community, assuming that's ever happened.
Since he's full of nonsense about that salient "point" in his piece, I'm willing to bet it's not the only instance where that's the case.
Hey Tom, come out to Berkeley some time. There's nothing like getting rid of some lazy, preconceived notions.
#92 Posted by Rudy Koerner, CJR on Sun 18 Oct 2009 at 11:31 PM
Oh the poor, poor victimized conservatives. Cry me a river.
The idea that there is a liberal bias in the media is the verbal equivalent of a blow to the head. It is an act of intellectual violence and utter dishonesty.
In fact it is the very idea of a liberal bias in the media that enables the overwhelming conservative bias in media *products* (to paraphrase the excellent point made above). The simple fact is that media elites are more afraid of nut cases on the right with bombs than scholars on the left with arguments. To ignore this is quite dangerous both to public safety and to a functional national conversation.
#93 Posted by TJeff, CJR on Mon 19 Oct 2009 at 01:49 PM
Why is it so hard for conservatives to understand that holding liberal views, aka bias, doesn't prevent one from providing informed, unbiased reporting? Understanding and admitting one's biases is a requirement for ensuring that those same biases don't skew the product.
For those conservatives who will never say die to their opinions of liberals, I challenge you to be as honest as the man who said, "The essence of the liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." Bertrand Russell
#94 Posted by Keenanjay, CJR on Mon 19 Oct 2009 at 02:26 PM
tom is WAY too quick to dismiss thomas franks....just saw a poll that showed working class white men believe that the gop is better for their personal economy than the democrats are despite the fact that there is zero evidence to prove it...mccain won whites without college degrees by 20 points last fall [almost 50 points in the south],,,,THAT'S why people think conservatives are "largely poorer, undereducated and easier to command."
#95 Posted by dj spellchecka, CJR on Tue 20 Oct 2009 at 12:47 PM
when edsall writes "the children of folks casting ballots for Republicans often get into big trouble when they get pregnant (see, Sarah Palin’s daughter)," it's clear he doesn't know anything about the group he's defending....evangelicals and southerners would rather have a unwed mother in their family than a daughter that got an abortion. studies show that abstance only se-ed leads to no less sex, just more unprotected sex...teen pregnancy rates in blue states, among all races, are lower than they are in red states....
#96 Posted by dj spellchecka, CJR on Tue 20 Oct 2009 at 12:55 PM
Overall a fairly unbiased piece, yet, the writer still can stray away from the idea that "liberals make better journalists." His argument seems to be, "it's ok to have bias, you just need to hide it better." I would contend that the reason conservative journalist might not appear as unbiased (at least to liberals) is that it is greater struggle for them to practice deception. Liberal journalists seem to have no problem with subtley coloring the news, i.e. through ommission on the Van Jones and Acorn stories.
The fact is conservatives have seen this bias for decades and are just so relieved and thankful to finally have a news outlet that doesn't disparage our views.
#97 Posted by j, CJR on Tue 20 Oct 2009 at 01:33 PM
Thomas Edsall calls on journalists to "own its Liberalism." Fine words. Perhaps Mr. Edsall should follow his own advice, and own up to his OWN Liberalism. A quick online search shows that Thomas Edsall is a registered Democrat in DC.
#98 Posted by Bruce, CJR on Tue 20 Oct 2009 at 01:33 PM
Wow, liberal James has really opened my mind. Why all this time, I thought Katie Couric , Brian Williams and Mr. Charlie on ABC were just biased lefties. But now I see that ol' Charlie treated Sarah Palin just the same as he did Obama in their respective interviews. He really didn't look down at her with his glasses hanging at the end of his nose. I used to say that the networks were just Obama bootlickers but liberal James has shined the light of truth before me. Thanks, liberal James.
#99 Posted by Neal Kaye, CJR on Tue 20 Oct 2009 at 01:51 PM
--Did you miss the part where Jesus said "give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime."
Yes, but that's because He never said it.
It was Lao Tzu
And if you want an example of disgraceful liberal bias point out the sick race quotes falsely and irresponsibly attributed to Rush Limbaugh.
#100 Posted by Bill Lawrence, CJR on Wed 21 Oct 2009 at 10:44 PM
--Why is it so hard for conservatives to understand that holding liberal views, aka bias, doesn't prevent one from providing informed, unbiased reporting?
Why is it so hard to understand that it was uninformed biased reporting that led to the confirmation that those in media overwhelmingly hold liberal views?
#101 Posted by Bill Lawrence, CJR on Wed 21 Oct 2009 at 10:47 PM
Mr. Edsall,
Your column was a rare breath of fresh air, even though I don't agree with every point.
Having spent my entire post-collegiate life as a working journalist, I would add the following observations:
1. The problem with the mainstream reporters and editors isn't just their political bias; what also undermines their credibility is their own arrogance toward anyone who doesn't belong to their "club."
That, I believe, partially accounts for why the MSM ignored the ACORN and Van Jones stories: As traditional bastions of journalism, they hated to admit they'd been scooped by a right-wing talk show host, a blogger, and two twentysomethings with tacky clothing and a hidden camera.
Had The New York Times broken these stories, I have no doubt that the rest of the media would have fallen in line like the Rockettes. As it was, picking up these stories would have meant giving the new media credit for breaking them. To the proud old media, it was like the cast of "CSI" admitting they'd have never solved the murder without the assistance of Barney Fife.
2. Another too-common flaw in mainstream media coverage is the tendancy to see only the individual trees while overlooking the much larger forest -- in other words, giving one person or a few aggrieved individuals more sympathy and importance than the far greater number of average Americans.
For instance, a mainstream reporter might consider it responsible journalism to write about his own notion of "the little people" -- say, a Mexican family who hops a border fence and walks for days through the Arizona desert to get a minimum-wage job in Phoenix.
But stories like this ignore the thousands, even millions of American "little people" who play by the rules, work long hours in low-wage jobs, and don't appreciate their hard-earned tax money being used to provide medical services, education and other government freebies for lawbreaking foreign nationals.
See what I mean? We can feel sorry for impoverished illegal immigrants all day long, but that doesn't mean a nation with a $1.4 trillion deficit can afford to spend billions of tax dollars on non-citizens who have no legal right to be here.
And by repeatedly ignoring the plight of average Heartland Americans in favor of foreigners, the MSM solidifies its image as elitist, politically correct and out of touch.
That brings me back to the ACORN and Van Jones stories, and the fact that they weren't broken by "real" journalists. Personally, I think James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles deserve a Pulitzer Prize for not only exposing the dirty underside of an organization that has reaped millions of taxpayer dollars, but for demonstrating how fat and lazy the MSM have become.
Seriously, if two kids can crack ACORN with nothing more than pimp and prostitute garb, a hidden camera and a dedication to finding the truth, why couldn't the old media have blown the lid off this organization years ago? After all, given its history of abusing the voter registration system and the indictments of its employees in multiple states, it's not as if ACORN had played it clean until the day O'Keefe and Giles darkened their doors.
Moreover, does anyone seriously believe this story would have been ignored if O'Keefe and Giles had gotten the same videotape from, say, five branches of Sarah Palin's campaign offices?
Of course, the ACORN piece wasn't exactly the new media's first touchdown against the old media. Remember when Dan Rather's phony tale of George W. Bush's National Guard service was unraveled by a blogger with a sharp eye for typeface?
Maybe it's a matter of the MSM thinking too hard about whom these stories might benefit. I'm aware of cautions such as "The right wing has been trying to take ACORN down for a long time." But if I'd been a city editor hearing that
#102 Posted by Hoosier Scribe, CJR on Fri 23 Oct 2009 at 12:22 PM
Mr. Edsall,
Your column was a rare breath of fresh air, even though I don't agree with every point.
Having spent my entire post-collegiate life as a working journalist, I would add the following observations:
1. The problem with the mainstream reporters and editors isn't just their political bias; what also undermines their credibility is their own arrogance toward anyone who doesn't belong to their "club."
That, I believe, partially accounts for why the MSM ignored the ACORN and Van Jones stories: As traditional bastions of journalism, they hated to admit they'd been scooped by a right-wing talk show host, a blogger, and two twentysomethings with tacky clothing and a hidden camera.
Had The New York Times broken these stories, I have no doubt that the rest of the media would have fallen in line like the Rockettes. As it was, picking up these stories would have meant giving the new media credit for breaking them. To the proud old media, it was like the cast of "CSI" admitting they'd have never solved the murder without the assistance of Barney Fife.
2. Another too-common flaw in mainstream media coverage is the tendancy to see only the individual trees while overlooking the much larger forest -- in other words, giving one person or a few aggrieved individuals more sympathy and importance than the far greater number of average Americans.
For instance, a mainstream reporter might consider it responsible journalism to write about his own notion of "the little people" -- say, a Mexican family who hops a border fence and walks for days through the Arizona desert to get a minimum-wage job in Phoenix.
But stories like this ignore the thousands, even millions of American "little people" who play by the rules, work long hours in low-wage jobs, and don't appreciate their hard-earned tax money being used to provide medical services, education and other government freebies for lawbreaking foreign nationals.
See what I mean? We can feel sorry for impoverished illegal immigrants all day long, but that doesn't mean a nation with a $1.4 trillion deficit can afford to spend billions of tax dollars on non-citizens who have no legal right to be here.
And by repeatedly ignoring the plight of average Heartland Americans in favor of foreigners, the MSM solidifies its image as elitist, politically correct and out of touch.
That brings me back to the ACORN and Van Jones stories, and the fact that they weren't broken by "real" journalists. Personally, I think James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles deserve a Pulitzer Prize for not only exposing the dirty underside of an organization that has reaped millions of taxpayer dollars, but for demonstrating how fat and lazy the MSM have become.
Seriously, if two kids can crack ACORN with nothing more than pimp and prostitute garb, a hidden camera and a dedication to finding the truth, why couldn't the old media have blown the lid off this organization years ago? After all, given its history of abusing the voter registration system and the indictments of its employees in multiple states, it's not as if ACORN had played it clean until the day O'Keefe and Giles darkened their doors.
Moreover, does anyone seriously believe this story would have been ignored if O'Keefe and Giles had gotten the same videotape from, say, five branches of Sarah Palin's campaign offices?
Of course, the ACORN piece wasn't exactly the new media's first touchdown against the old media. Remember when Dan Rather's phony tale of George W. Bush's National Guard service was unraveled by a blogger with a sharp eye for typeface?
Maybe it's a matter of the MSM thinking too hard about whom these stories might benefit. I'm aware of cautions such as "The right wing has been trying to take ACORN down for a long time." But if I'd been a city editor hearing that
#103 Posted by Hoosier Scribe, CJR on Fri 23 Oct 2009 at 12:24 PM
Some major issues facing the US:
- Health care
- Global warming
- Terrorism
- War in Iraq
- War in Afghanistan
- Bank failures
- Huge debt, deficit spending
- Rise of China
- Highest unemployment since WW II
- Torture
- Question of economic stimulus
- Decline of newspapers
Van Jones and ACORN are not on anyone's list of the important issues that face Americans in 2009. Therefore, I don't see how these topics can be the basis for meaningful discussion about anything.
#104 Posted by Jotman, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 03:37 AM
(continued)
"The Van Jones and ACORN cases are the extremes...." That's not accurate. It's not that these stories are extremes, it's that they are stories do not rank on any informed person's list of the major issues facing the United States in 2009.
It's evident to me that relatively inconsequential stories like Acorn or Van Jones -- news events that have either been manufactured for Fox or extreme right-wing radio or discovered by these outlets -- are considered news because an extreme right "news" source decided they were news. That other networks don't emphasize or invent these kinds of stories is to be expected. They don't have quite the same agenda.
If you want to demonstrate liberal bias, then just try proving your theory in relation to the major issues of our times, not hype such as Van Jones or Acorn. And good luck with that.
#105 Posted by Jotman, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 11:17 AM
I think the media should pay more attention to people like Mr. O'Keefe who walk into community offices and set them up because
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/17/AR2009091704805_2.html
Though O’Keefe described himself as a progressive radical, not a conservative, he said he targeted ACORN for the same reasons that the political right does: its massive voter registration drives that turn out poor African Americans and Latinos against Republicans.
“Politicians are getting elected single-handedly due to this organization,” he said. “No one was holding this organization accountable. No one in the media is putting pressure on them. We wanted to do a stunt and see what we could find.”
By the by, where were the mainstream press and the watch dog conservative activists when Bush was firing attorneys because they weren't pursuing bogus voter registration fraud just before elections hard enough? That story was assembled by Talking Points Memo and caused the collapse of Attorney Gen Alberto Gonzalez and gave us insight into just how badly the Bush Administration politicized the justice department, particularly the civil rights division.
And it took months for the press to recognize it. Are you gonna call that liberal bias too, Edsall you hack? The downing Street memos were another example of press forgetting to mention a single damn thing for months. The NYTimes suppressed the warrantless wiretap story until after the election. Nobody but Salon reported that Jeb Bush hired ChoicePoint to purge its voter rolls of felons from other states based on loosely match criteria, meaning legitimate Gore voters lost their vote.
The Mainstream press missed all of that while giving "officials say" fellatio
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-farcical-end-of-the-american-dream-470295.html
to the lies Dick Cheney wanted spread about Iraq's WMD's and Joe Wilson's wife. Is that because they were leftists?
I got an idea. Next time you think "I'm going to write a journalism bias piece," don't. The journalist is not supposed to be the effing story, the story is supposed to be the story. Your job is to get the story and analyze the coverage, not to do psychoanalysis. If you sense something important is not getting covered, do the story on the thing that should be covered, Don't assume you know why it's not covered because you don't. You are vain and dumb. Unless you recognize that you will not be able to prevent your own your own uninformed prejudices, what you call bias, from hijacking the story.
#106 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 02:02 PM
Time would be better spent checking things like this
Why did so many fail to see the news value when they learned from Glenn Beck that Van Jones, Obama’s environmental czar, had signed a 2004 petition accusing the Bush administration of deliberately allowing the 9/11 attacks to occur, calling for an “immediate inquiry,” and noting that a survey of New Yorkers showed 41 percent believed “US leaders had foreknowledge of impending 9/11 attacks and ‘consciously failed’ to act?
Then psychoanalyzing them.
Not even the conservative website "Little Green Footballs" of Dan Rather typeface fame could find any evidence that Van Jones was an actual truther. They found evidence that the petitioners committed fraud:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34600_Wheres_the_Truther_Beef
Is it too much, Mr. Edsall, too much to ask that you do your damn job? If I want to consume misinformation, I can watch Fox News.
CJR is supposed to be better than that.
#107 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 02:34 PM
I think you'd have to be in denial -- or a blind partisan for the Democratic Party -- to argue that ACORN and Van Jones aren't stories of major interest to millions of Americans.
When Jay Leno and "South Park" start cracking on ACORN, you know the story has reached critical mass.
It's easy to see why.
ACORN, a nationwide pro-Democrat organization that received $800,000 from Barack Obama's own campaign, has milked about $52 million from American taxpayers despite being under investigation for voter registration fraud in something like 15 states. Several of its employees have been convicted of felonies.
That alone should have prompted at least one major news organization to investigate ACORN long before now, but unfortunately, the era of Watergate has been replaced by the era of journalistic cheerleading.
So when a couple of twentysomethings with a hidden camera scoop the mainstream media by showing us that ACORN was even sleazier than we imagined ... ummm, yeah, that's a story.
Likewise, when one of Obama's czars proves to be a 9/11 truther and a communist -- not to mention a guy who thinks "white environmentalists" are poisoning minority communities and who held a vigil on 9/12 for the "victims of American imperialism" -- that's a rather obvious story, too.
Granted, these may be stories that Obama supporters wish they could keep under wraps, but you can't tell me the American public has no interest in knowing "the rest of the story" when it comes to the appointees and organizations that Barack Obama is connected with.
Besides, look at what the MSM consider news -- staged beer summits and the selection of the presidential dog.
I also think it's high time someone in the mainstream media took a hard look at Mark Lloyd, Obama's FCC diversity czar who was caught on tape expressing his admiration for the way Hugo Chavez strong-armed the Venezuelan media (Lloyd called Hugo's crackdown "democratic") and who has said he's not all that interested in freedom of speech and freedom of the press.
Given Obama's recent attacks on Fox News and talk radio, you have to wonder whether he appointed Lloyd to be his media hit man.
Hello, MSM -- is anybody besides the new media paying attention?
#108 Posted by Upon Further Review, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 04:05 PM
>>Thimbles wrote:
>>I think the media should pay more attention to people like Mr. O'Keefe who walk into community offices and set them up.
____________________________
Who cares why O'Keefe walked into ACORN and what his politics are? Did we ask the same questions of Woodword and Bernstein?
The point is what O'Keefe and Hannah Giles found when they got inside: at least five ACORN offices that were not only willing, but eager to help them obtain a government-subsidized house for their kiddie prostitution ring.
O'Keefe might be a story, but he isn't THE story because he didn't get $52 million of our tax money -- ACORN did.
And ACORN can cry all day long about being set up or recorded secretly, but I tend to doubt that O'Keefe would have gotten the same response if he'd walked into, say, a United Way office and requested their assistance in setting up a brothel for young teens whom they intended to smuggle into the country.
Which reminds me ... does anyone seriously believe that the mainstream media would have ignored the ACORN scandal for so long if O'Keefe had managed to make the same secret recordings at five offices of, say, the NRA, the Catholic Church archdiocese, or Sarah Palin's campaign headquarters? Of course not -- we all know the MSM would have plastered a conservative scandal across Page 1 and led off their network newscasts with it.
The MSM looked the other way on the ACORN scandal because (1) Fox News got it first, and (2) ACORN engenders their politically correct sympathies because it's a pro-Democrat organization that claims to serve minorities.
It's time they put down the Obama pom poms and went back to investigating scandals on both sides of the political fence.
#109 Posted by Upon Further Review, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 04:38 PM
TYPO ALERT:
"WoodWARD and Bernstein," obviously.
#110 Posted by Upon Further Review, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 04:42 PM
>>I think you'd have to be in denial -- or a blind partisan for the Democratic Party -- >>to argue that ACORN and Van Jones aren't stories of major interest to millions of >>Americans.
No I totally acknowledge that the ACORN and the Van Jones story are vitally important to a few million Americans.
But I also acknowledge these people are stupid, paranoid, and deserve the same credibility that we accord to the "Bush did 9-11" crowd.
They are the pushers of the new McCarthyism, where they can't wait to accuse people of communism and destroy their careers while they whine about the way the white house treats their widdle news organization because it's not being coddled enough.
You don't seem to get it. Obama has the freidmanite, Larry Summers, running his economic policy. He's marginalized nearly all of his progressive support and watched as Fox News sunk his progressive members one at a time. He's played the bi-partisan with people that accuse him of killing grandma and bent over backwards to placate the pharmaceutical industry and the hospitals. His governance has been pro-wallstreet and pro-market and all you mindless zombies can do is borrow Glen Beck's words and carp about socialism, communism, fascism, mafioso, garbage.
http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/10/07/the-anti-cult-of-personality/
You are destroying your country with your peasant mentality.
http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/04/14/americas-peasant-mentality/
Stop it.
Van Jones should never have been story even if he believed what dishonest people claim he believes. People are allowed to believe what they want and still do their jobs in America. If you disagree, well then I guess it's okay to persecute people for their conservative beliefs, hell their fundamentalist Christian beliefs. If the tactic is okay, then the target shouldn't matter. People should not be measured by how well they do their jobs, people should be measured by their personal beliefs and should be blacklisted if we deem those beliefs Unamerican. That tactic is approved by millions of Americans, the ones who have interest in the Van Jones story. In their America, thoughts can be crimes.
(Was it not their president that made people take loyalty tests and promoted unqualified people and dismissed qualified people based on their beliefs? And how much did the resulting corruption and incompetence cost the taxpayer in placed like Iraq and Afghanistan I wonder? More than Acorn, mayhaps?)
You must be so proud of your country, the country brought to you by Limbaugh and Glen Beck.
#111 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 24 Oct 2009 at 11:24 PM
>>Who cares why O'Keefe walked into ACORN and what his politics are?
That's a good question. Who cares? So remind me, because I forgot, who're the people always yapping about bias and how it affects objective, honest coverage again? Who are the people complaining about partisan coverage from partisan news again?
Who are the people in this thread demanding journalists reveal their biases again?
You dumb ass. Either bias matters or it doesn't. And if it does, then O'Keefe's matters too. You don't get to pick and choose.
#112 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 25 Oct 2009 at 06:51 AM
*** Who cares why O'Keefe walked into ACORN and what his politics are?
>>>>>>>>>>> That's a good question. Who cares? So remind me, because I forgot, who're the people always yapping about bias and how it affects objective, honest coverage again? Who are the people complaining about partisan coverage from partisan news again?
Who are the people in this thread demanding journalists reveal their biases again?
You dumb ass. Either bias matters or it doesn't. And if it does, then O'Keefe's matters too. You don't get to pick and choose.
*** Wow, you STILL don't get it (and I'm not going to engage you in juvenile name-calling).
OK, let's go over this again:
When media observers complain about media bias, they're talking about the way a story was written in print or edited on TV.
However, O'Keefe didn't write anything ... and sure, you could try to accuse him of editing the story to make ACORN look bad.
But you'd look awfully stupid in doing so -- because the evidence against ACORN was caught on tape.
Unless you seriously believe that O'Keefe spliced together the words of ACORN employees to make them say something they never did (which would be a neat trick, given the fact that the words match the movements of their mouths and the tape doesn't jump around), how on earth can you claim he doctored or "creatively" edited the recording?
I suppose you could trying claiming that O'Keefe showed only part of the tape instead of the full tape. (For all I know, that too has been debunked, O'Keefe may have posted the entire recording on www.biggovernment.com)
But still ... what would your point be? If I make a recording of a cop beating the crap out of a suspect who's screaming, "I surrender, I surrender," does it really matter whether I'm a closet cop-hater or simply a reporter trying to do an honest job?
If the recording is legitimate ... no, it doesn't matter, because I'm not the story; the beating is the story. Just as it doesn't matter who O'Keefe is, because O'Keefe isn't the story. The story is that five ACORN offices were eager to assist in setting up a brothel for underage hookers smuggled into this country. And that's important because ACORN, not O'Keefe, has sucked $52 million from the pockets of American taxpayers.
In short ... bias may matter, but the accuracy of the ACORN story doesn't depend on whether or not O'Keefe is unbiased. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, O'Keefe's recording is like the tape from a security camera, which is obviously neither biased nor unbiased. To debunk it, you'd have to show that the recording was doctored or unethically edited.
So ... GOT PROOF? Or are you simply squealing about the fact that one of your favorite corrupt organizations got caught with its pants down?
#113 Posted by Upon Further Review, CJR on Fri 30 Oct 2009 at 08:42 AM
*** I think you'd have to be in denial -- or a blind partisan for the Democratic Party -- to argue that ACORN and Van Jones aren't stories of major interest to millions of Americans.
>>>>>>>>>> No I totally acknowledge that the ACORN and the Van Jones story are vitally important to a few million Americans.
But I also acknowledge these people are stupid, paranoid, and deserve the same credibility that we accord to the "Bush did 9-11" crowd ...
You must be so proud of your country, the country brought to you by Limbaugh and Glen Beck.
________________________________________
*** Sorry, Thimbles, you're arguing out of both sides of your mouth, and I'm not sure whether to respond to you or wait to see which side of your mouth wins.
On one hand, you say that ACORN and Van Jones are important stories; on the other hand, you curse the fact that the stories were broken by people who, in your mind, are "stupid, paranoid, and deserve the same credibility that we accord to the 'Bush did 9-11' crowd."
In other words, you want to shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.
Look, you may not like James O'Keefe, but his politics have nothing to do with his recordings of ACORN's corruption. You may not like Glenn Beck, but the recordings of Van Jones' speeches that he presented on his show didn't involve an impersonator wearing a Van Jones Halloween costume.
In short, these stories stood on their own, with evidence that was so strong, it made the messengers virtually irrelevant.
As for your complaint that " People are allowed to believe what they want and still do their jobs in America" and " If you disagree, well then I guess it's okay to persecute people for their conservative beliefs" ... gee, where have you been?
Conservatives already have their careers affected by what they believe and say. For instance, did you defend Rush Limbaugh's right to own an NFL team after his comment about Donovan McNabb? Did you defend Trent Lott's right to keep his position after his Strom Thurmond tribute? Did you defend George Allen's right to be elected to the U.S. Senate after his "macaca" remark?
As you might say, either such comments matter or they don't -- and if they do, then Van Jones, Anita Dunn et al. are fair game. Besides, I rather doubt that you'd adopt a wait-and-see attitude if the next president wanted to appoint the Grand Dragon of the KKK to a cabinet position.
Obviously, what people believe and say DOES matter, especially with important political positions that are paid by the taxpayer.
As for Obama's supposed "bipartisanship," you must be auditioning for a stand-up gig with Leno. At one point recently, Obama hadn't discussed the health care bill with Congressional Republicans since April. Meanwhile, he and/or his fellow Democrats have mocked, disparaged and/or threatened people who express dissenting opinions ... ranging from Humana Corporation to the Tea Party protesters.
If that's your idea of bipartisanship, you probably regard Pravda's Cold War editions as "The Golden Age of Journalism."
#114 Posted by Upon Further Review, CJR on Fri 30 Oct 2009 at 09:15 AM
The author is so wrong, on so many levels, I hardly know where to start. First, is it blindness that would cause a person of presumably reasonable intelligence like the author of this piece to fail to recognize that there is NOTHING objective about the mainstream media, that in its choice of stories, its presentation et al reflect an utter and absolute bias in favor of the left and against the right? It really frustrates me when I hear nonsense like this piece, which points to a blindness and deafness that simply has to be wilful. And of course, the kicker at the end about conservatives not making good journalist - I mean give me a break. Maybe there is something about today's journalists that doesn't encourage people of conservative opinons to be journalists in the first place. Lime..a hostile work environment. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see example after example of bias - in news, entertainment in the mainstream media - and then to read a piece like this which insists that much of it is unintentional. Blindness is isn't the work for this - it has to be some kind of self imposed stupidity. Either that or a lifetime of being with like minded people has resulted in some form of brainwashing. Not that I haven't seen that before - I've noticed that when you tell a lifetime leftist that their opinions might be wrong results in either not being heard or foaming at the mouth generalities. But, one thing you don't get is an open mind. The cure for this is certainly not what is suggested in this piece. I would suggest many long years of therapy, to get to the realization that, yes, everything you know is wrong.
#115 Posted by B. S. Davis, CJR on Wed 4 Nov 2009 at 06:04 PM
On one hand, you say that ACORN and Van Jones are important stories; on the other hand, you curse the fact that the stories were broken by people who, in your mind, are "stupid, paranoid, and deserve the same credibility that we accord to the 'Bush did 9-11' crowd."
No, what I said is that the ACORN and Van Jones stories are important to a few million Americans, out of a total population of hundreds of millions, therefore a small percentage of the country, a percentage who happen to be "stupid, paranoid, and deserve the same credibility that we accord to the 'Bush did 9-11' crowd. Sorry I need to spell this out explicitly but there you have it.
People who can't give a damn about the corruption that went on for eight long years
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/10/iraq_billions200710
are ranting about some shady advice and 52 million dollars of tax payer money like Acorn used its 52 million dollars to start a child sex brothel itself.
You've got a scandal worth the amount of what David Vitter kept in his diaper and you're turning it in your own mind into the new Watergate. And the media is flagellating itself over missing this "important" story so soon after it kept us enthralled with Iraq WMD's and the strong American housing market touted by the same conservatives who want to blame all their problems on the C.R.A. and Acorn, always Acorn.
If only the media ignored the current conservatives, the world would be a better place. If only.
#116 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 5 Nov 2009 at 04:19 AM
Today we experienced the far-right march on the Capitol led by the anti-intellectual fringe headed by the distinctly non-intellectual know-nothing Rep.Michelle Bachmann (R-Minn). Bachmann is an extreme dirtbag who regularly celebrates her inherent stupidity. The American people are smarter than her.
#117 Posted by Tom Kephart, CJR on Fri 6 Nov 2009 at 04:11 AM
1. Thimbles wrote: "No, what I said is that the ACORN and Van Jones stories are important to a few million Americans, out of a total population of hundreds of millions, therefore a small percentage of the country, a percentage who happen to be "stupid, paranoid, and deserve the same credibility that we accord to the 'Bush did 9-11' crowd. Sorry I need to spell this out explicitly but there you have it."
*** I'm sorry, too, that you weren't capable of communicating effectively the first time around.
In any case, your claim that only a few million Americans consider ACORN important is clearly ludicrous. When Jay Leno begins cracking ACORN jokes on national TV, and when liberal Congressmen begin voting to de-fund the corrupt organization after it was caught on tape supporting kiddie prostitution, it's obvious to most thinking people that ACORN has incurred a wave of populist opposition that is considerably larger than "a few million Americans."
_________________________________________
2. Thimbles wrote: "People who can't give a damn about the corruption that went on for eight long years ... are ranting about some shady advice and 52 million dollars of tax payer money like Acorn used its 52 million dollars to start a child sex brothel itself."
*** Nice attempted deflection, but the fact that we can't solve all the world's problems in one fell swoop should never prevent us from cleaning up obvious corruption when it's feasible to do so.
And as the multi-state investigations and convictions demonstrate, it's not as if ACORN's only sin was in cooperating with a bogus scheme to promote kiddie hookers from El Salvador.
Sorry, I never fall for the "You think THAT'S a big deal? What about THIS?" diversion. Yes, I think paying $52 million to ACORN is a big deal, and yes, I think all government funding of the organization should stop immediately, and nothing about Iraq changes any of that. (Nor does anything about Afghanistan, abortion, civil rights, world peace, global warming or who got voted off the island on the last episode of "Survivor.")
_________________________________________
3. Thimbles wrote: "If only the media ignored the current conservatives, the world would be a better place. If only."
*** In other words, you want the already liberal media to go whole-hog and just ignore conservatives altogether. Hey, why not? Nothing like coming clean with who you really are and what you really care about.
And since you prefer one-sided news, why not move to somewhere else in the world where you never have to hear both sides of the issues?
For instance, as Obama's FCC diversity czar, Mark Lloyd, has pointed out, Hugo Chavez has done wondrous things with the Venezuelan media.
Imagine how nice it would be for you to wake up every day in a country where the state-controlled media tells you how benevolent Dear Leader is?
If only ...
#118 Posted by Upon Further Review, CJR on Mon 9 Nov 2009 at 02:31 PM
The editor of the Sunday NY Times magazine recently observed that his publication is not so much biased to the 'Left' as it is aimed toward a certain demographic.
This demographic, to judge from the product, is urban, fairly affluent, very liberal on social issues, college-educated tending heavily toward the 'information' professions (law, journalism, academia, advertising, the arts), and likely to be the children of fairly affluent families. These folks are less likely to be married than the average, and less likely to have children of their own. More are female than male. It is implicit that this demographic is 'white', with a relatively heavy Jewish presence. Thoughtful people who are conscious of their status in society as 'evolved' opinion leaders of the culture. They are goal-oriented in terms of personal financial well-being and status, but regard themselves as compensating with low-voltage social activism such as donations to liberal causes, ownership of 'green' products, and shopping trips to Whole Foods.
Now, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to contend that this demographic is very close to the demographic of (a) national political journalists, and (b) a particular and easily-identified liberal Democrat. Some people get very huffy when it is suggested that political reporters, concentrated in the most reliably left-leaning areas of the country (except for college towns), that is, urban America, cannot help but be influenced by their environment. Yet some journalism cannot be explained any other way, particularly on the social issues which best define the splits in American politics.
Ask yourself, to cite an obvious current example, whether same-sex marriage is a big issue, one way or another, to the public at large. Of course not. The public wishes it would just take the hint and go away. Then why are the activities of same-sex marriage activists followed so closely, given an unbroken string of defeats administered by voters? 'Gay activists vow to press on after defeat in (fill in blank)' is the standard framing device. Few other 'crusades' would get this kind of suffrage after so many defeats by consumers and voters. I can't believe it's not because of the urban orientation of journalists - gay people are their friends and neighbors, and therefore they are especially sensitive to these concerns; they believe 'the future belongs to the liberals', either implicitly, or perhaps, explicitly. This is the essence of liberal ideology itself, a belief in urban modernism, not Marxism. A weakness for trends is a result. The problem is that these trends sometimes do not reach 50% acceptance, or else we would all be supporting affirmative action, and abortion rights, and pot would have long ago been legalized everywhere, and . . . well, I think it's safe to say that the world has turned out a bit differently in 2009 than 'progressives' thought it would have back in 1969, when China was Maoist, and the Third World was revolutionary, and religion was in decline as a force in the world (including in rapidly secularizing Moslem countries), and capitalism was on its last legs, and the Soviet Union & U.S. were eventually going to come to some status-quo convergence, and computers were part of the dehumanizing power structure like HAL in '2001', and the arms race if unchecked by international agreements risked blowing us all to kingdom come . . .
Journalists are more likely to spend Sunday morning reading the NY Times than attending church. Nothing wrong with that - but it does suggest the cultural gulf that separates urban journalists from more conservative fellow-citizens whose political leanings journalists are called on to interpret. Edsall is saying something fairly obvious, and the only ones in denial on this post are themselves left-leaning writers who either have an incredibly high bar for what constitutes 'left' thinking, or who are aware that most editors a
#119 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Mon 9 Nov 2009 at 05:58 PM
This again. Geez.
Nice attempted deflection, but the fact that we can't solve all the world's problems in one fell swoop should never prevent us from cleaning up obvious corruption when it's feasible to do so.
My problem with Acorn coverage is not that it exposes corruption, it's
A)that it exposes corruption by low level employees from the streets who offered advice to people posing from the streeets for a political purpose, to shut down voter registration.
B) that it extrapolates the behavior of low level employees as indicative of the whole organization, like ACORN has an official child sex policy that governs from the top down.
Did you know some conservatives are violent assholes that go on shooting rampages? You can't deny it, it's on tape. Conservatives are violent. If you are a conservative, you go on shooting rampages.
Am I sane when I generalize like this? Maybe not, but there's a swath of people that are in the conservative movement who can't stop talking about child sex and Acorn because of some video tapes of conversations in which the only crime committed was taping someone without their knowledge. There's a difference between talking about prostitution and being caught in the act. One isn't a crime, ask David Vitter. Which brings us to :
C) If ACORN corruption was being attacked as a part of an attack on wider, more serious, corruption than I would not mind so much. Corruption is bad, less of it is better, and I imagine Acorn will come out of this a better, higher quality organization though it's reputation will continue to suffer from unwarranted child sex associations-job well done.
But it's not. You guys are focused on Acorn to the exclusion of all else. Your republican congress, including David Vitter, voted against Franken's Act requiring government contractors not to force one sided arbitration with their employees in cases of criminal conduct. An act that came about because rape has been rampant in Iraq and companies like KBR forced employees into silent arbitration when they've been gang raped.
Gang Rape. Actual Crime. Not talking about it, actual people who've had their insides ripped up by the genitals of subhuman assholes, funded by billions of your tax dollars.
And republicans support that. The ones who voted against Acorn and voted for KBR support gang rape on taxpayer dimes. And I can understand why they'd rather talk about Acorn BS than actual crimes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6YZ1wP1978
But I'm afraid I couldn't be more disgusted by it.
Acorn might be interesting if more important things weren't going on, but right now Acorn is just an obvious distraction and a beck produced boogey man who's problems mainly exist on his chalkboard and in his mind.
.
In other words, you want the already liberal media to go whole-hog and just ignore conservatives altogether. Hey, why not? Nothing like coming clean with who you really are and what you really care about.
And since you prefer one-sided news, why not move to somewhere else in the world where you never have to hear both sides of the issues?
The thing is I do have dialog with intelligent conservatives with whom I agree with very little:
http://thecrossedpond.com
but they aren't drooling retards.
I have no problem with hearing both sides, but I have no interest in hearing a side composed of deluded morons who can only view the world through the prism of "my team is right and your team is wrong. I don't care what my team says or does, all I care about are points. Talking points. Coherency? That's like under K in the dictionary and I never could get part R. Woo hoo! Drudge made an update! *wets pants*"
And I don't have a tolerance for that from right or left. I slammed Mike Stark when he went to
#120 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 9 Nov 2009 at 09:47 PM
THIMBLES connects on that breaking ball, and it's back, back, back... and it's outta here! A grand slam!
#121 Posted by Hardrada, CJR on Mon 9 Nov 2009 at 10:24 PM
Oh, no . . . looks like it drifted foul.
If you are really interested in why so many people don't see it as you do . . . (a) ACORN was on the taxpayer's dime, thanks to being well-wired with the Democratic Party. There is an infrastructure behind this sort of scandal; it can't easily be isolated and marginalized. ACORN even had a direct Barack Obama connection. Last year's GOP criticism of 'community organizers' as a euphemism for left-wing political organizers suddenly resonated more strongly. (b) Low-level employees these folks might have been, but that's the level with which most consumers deal. Since when have muckrakers not actually gone to the slaughterhouses to see what's going on (re Upton Sinclair) instead of reading the corporation's mission statement? (c) Republicans have been trying to get journalists and prosecutors to examine this outfit closely for years for dubious activities of one sort or another by 'low-level' employees. (One higher-level guy was involved in an embezzlement scandal, but never mind.) The MSM ignored suggestive evidence; the much-vaunted dismissal of U.S. Attorneys in at least one case appears to have been tied to his indolence in doing what a couple of kids were able to do with a hidden camera in a few days. (d) It isn't just ACORN; how many other ACORN scandals are there on 'the Left' which are similarly neglected by the mainstream, urban-based media?
I'm all for '60 Minutes' style investigations of bad guys. The trouble is that there are bad guys on the Left, too. Compared to the ink spilled about Rep. Bob Ney a couple of years back, Rep. Charlie Rangel, a much more powerful politiian, has gotten light treatment. There has been enough of a pattern of shying away from embarrassing news about Democratic groups and individuals in favor of floating stories that are unflattering to 'conservatives' (remember the Census worker who was darkly supposed to have been hung by anti-government fanatics inspired by Glenn Beck or the like) that critics have determined that the MSM has to have its face rubbed into left-wing hypocrisy and nastiness before it will assume the skeptical attitude it brings to the Right. So the ACORN and Van Jones stuff are being used not just on its own merits, but as a teaching lesson. By '60 Minutes' standards, these stories were news.
#122 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Tue 10 Nov 2009 at 01:00 PM
Oh, no . . . looks like it drifted foul.
If you are really interested in why so many people don't see it as you do . . . (a) ACORN was on the taxpayer's dime, thanks to being well-wired with the Democratic Party. There is an infrastructure behind this sort of scandal; it can't easily be isolated and marginalized. ACORN even had a direct Barack Obama connection. Last year's GOP criticism of 'community organizers' as a euphemism for left-wing political organizers suddenly resonated more strongly. (b) Low-level employees these folks might have been, but that's the level with which most consumers deal. Since when have muckrakers not actually gone to the slaughterhouses to see what's going on (re Upton Sinclair) instead of reading the corporation's mission statement? (c) Republicans have been trying to get journalists and prosecutors to examine this outfit closely for years for dubious activities of one sort or another by 'low-level' employees. (One higher-level guy was involved in an embezzlement scandal, but never mind.) The MSM ignored suggestive evidence; the much-vaunted dismissal of U.S. Attorneys in at least one case appears to have been tied to his indolence in doing what a couple of kids were able to do with a hidden camera in a few days. (d) It isn't just ACORN; how many other ACORN scandals are there on 'the Left' which are similarly neglected by the mainstream, urban-based media?
I'm all for '60 Minutes' style investigations of bad guys. The trouble is that there are bad guys on the Left, too. Compared to the ink spilled about Rep. Bob Ney a couple of years back, Rep. Charlie Rangel, a much more powerful politiian, has gotten light treatment. There has been enough of a pattern of shying away from embarrassing news about Democratic groups and individuals in favor of floating stories that are unflattering to 'conservatives' (remember the Census worker who was darkly supposed to have been hung by anti-government fanatics inspired by Glenn Beck or the like) that critics have determined that the MSM has to have its face rubbed into left-wing hypocrisy and nastiness before it will assume the skeptical attitude it brings to the Right. So the ACORN and Van Jones stuff are being used not just on its own merits, but as a teaching lesson. By '60 Minutes' standards, these stories were news.
#123 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Tue 10 Nov 2009 at 01:01 PM
I enjoyed reading Thimbles' complaint that most conservatives aren't civil. He then goes on to describe conservatives as "drooling retards," "deluded morons," "not coherent," people who "drool while they act like retards," "assholes, " and so on. He also claims to have dialogues with conservatives at the web site www.thecrossedpond.com, but the "conservatives" there are anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders. Anyway, thanks for the giggles. They are as amusing as your views on journalism.
#124 Posted by Frank, CJR on Tue 10 Nov 2009 at 02:03 PM
I call it as I see it.
What I don't do is call it as I know it to be false, or call it as it has been demonstrated to any rational person to be false.
Therefore, people who want to talk about birth certificates, nazi-communist health care, global cooling, the Acorn Community Reinvestment Act conspiracy, czars, and a plethora of other garbage get what they've earned, a rhetorical slap in the face.
If you don't want to be labeled as drooling retards, stop your followers from carrying handguns and pictures of Dachau healthcare to your rallies.
Of course, if you want to indulge in that freedom, that's fine too, so long as I have the freedom to call you a drooling retard for doing so.
Hell, it's not like conservatives have a problem with name calling in principle, it's the targets that twist their panties.
PS
#125 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 14 Nov 2009 at 10:26 PM
A fuddle duddle.
My comment got cut off from a typo.
What I meant to say was
PS. Go to the crossed pond and see how they react to the characterization that they're just a weekend at Bernie's. You likely aren't going to find a more libertarian bunch on the internet.
#126 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 14 Nov 2009 at 10:33 PM
Ahhh....civility calls from the crowd that gave America BusHitler. To defend a dictator that gave funds to Pali suidcide bombers who killed Jews, yet you on the Left will always, ALWAYS defend dictators against an American Republican.
Here are some memories:
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621
Get back to me after you read this post.
#127 Posted by JSF, CJR on Sun 15 Nov 2009 at 03:07 AM
Mikey,
If you keep moving the foul lines, I don't see how this remains a fair game.
My question to you was do you approve of the journalistic tactic used or not?
We can go into all night about whether or not ACORN was a bad company or whether Food lion was a good company or not and talk about the connections between criminal enterprises and the political parties that support them and such, but it's going to be a long night, a lot of typing on both sides, and I guarantee I will come out ahead.
But that's not the point I want clarified. I want to know from you if you approve of the tactic of hidden camera partisan journalism, in which case we can drop the Food Lion victim story, or if you disapprove of the tactic, in which case we can hold the James O'Keefe people to the same standards as we held the partisans at ABC. Are we consistent or are we the type to switch our views at the drop of a 'D'?
PS. In other news there's video confrontations with republicans going on with a partisan blogger over the KBR gang rape issue which we avoided:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/that-commie-bastard-al-franken-broke.html
http://www.starkreports.com/2009/11/14/more-on-franken-amendment-elitism/
At least they knew they were on tape.
#128 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 15 Nov 2009 at 11:49 AM
Y'all need to have a Designated Editor during the CJR holiday parties so that drunks and/or mental patients don't grab the blog controls. I'm just sayin'.
#129 Posted by Lex, CJR on Mon 28 Dec 2009 at 12:02 AM