Last December 10 was a big news day. U.S. Senate negotiators announced they had agreed to a compromise on health care reform, final preparations were being made for a global conference on climate change, President Obama accepted the Nobel Peace Prize, and new details emerged on five young American men who had been arrested in Pakistan on suspicion of plotting terror attacks. Not to mention that America was involved in two wars and was still in the throes of the worst recession in eighty years.
That night, the main news programs on the three cable news networks—CNN Tonight on CNN, Fox Report on Fox, and The Big Picture on MSNBC—all led with approximately five minutes of coverage of Obama, cutting between video of his acceptance speech and reports from on-the-ground reporters in Oslo. CNN and MSNBC also included on-air analysis of the speech by a variety of commentators. Fox had no such commentary on its news show, just a more-or-less straightforward report on the speech.
This might seem surprising, given the charges of bias leveled against Fox by members of the Obama administration. Charges, for example, like this from Anita Dunn, then the administration’s director of communications, speaking last October on Howard Kurtz’s CNN program, Reliable Sources:
The reality of it is that Fox News often operates almost as either the research arm or the communications arm of the Republican Party. And it is not ideological. . . . What I think is fair to say about Fox, and the way we view it, is that it is more of a wing of the Republican Party. . . . They’re widely viewed as a part of the Republican Party: take their talking points and put them on the air, take their opposition research and put it on the air. And that’s fine. But let’s not pretend they’re a news organization like CNN is.
Dunn’s strong talk set off a round of finger-pointing that hasn’t abated since. Her statement was attacked by political professionals for its form, and by Fox adherents for its content. The pols said the form of the complaint was too overt and thereby bad political tactics, somehow raising the news channel to equal standing with President Obama. The basic advice from this quarter was a president should never stoop to conquer.
Apart from the wisdom of the White House tactics, the content of the criticism was said, mainly by Fox, to be mistaken in that it failed to differentiate between Fox’s news programming and its opinion programming.
A close look at Fox’s operations seemed an obvious way to examine the claims and counter-claims. When I approached Fox to gain access to their studios and staff for a story about the nature of their news operations, I was told that if I wanted to do a piece on Fox, I should do a profile of Shepard Smith, their main news anchorman. I should be careful, they told me, to distinguish between Smith, a newsman, and their bevy of more notorious personalities—Bill O’Reilly, Neil Cavuto, Glenn Beck, and Greta Van Susteren*. They aren’t really news people, I was told; they are editorialists and ought to be analyzed as such. They are analogous, Fox suggested, to the editorial and op-ed opinion pages of newspapers, which ought not be confused with the straight news coverage.
The proposal to do a story on Smith was fair enough, but would not in any way address the central issue: Was Fox a political operation? I declined. A Smith profile would be a wonderful story for another time, I told Fox, but it wasn’t the story we felt relevant at the moment. That being the case, Fox “declined to participate” in my reporting, which is another way of saying I should go do something to myself and possibly the horse I rode in on, too.
Fox is a funny beast. It misrepresents news, which it defends as "conservative perspective" (ie: the child "indoctrination video scandal"), and then reports on its misrepresentations - the reaction to which it pretends is news.
Never minding the fact, if we can pretend such exist in the news media climate, that the whole operation is based on a willful misrepresentation. A lie. That's not what the news media business should be about. That is what fox is ALL about, with the token exception of Shep Smith.
And CNBC isn't any better.
However, the problem with most news media is that it has audience contempt. That it must focus on the trivialities and angles that are important to the Washington DC cocktail circuit because they know what news is relevant to the "common man".
As Paul Krugman pointed out the other day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXnVSu9QKnQ
"KRUGMAN: Can I say that 20 million Americans unemployed, the fact that we're worrying about the status of the White House social secretary...
VARGAS: It's our light way to end, Paul.
DONALDSON: Paul, welcome to Washington."
The problem is that the partisan media is a bunch of angry liars and the supposedly serious media are infatuated with savvy bullsh*ters who have no connection to the public to whom they are supposed to inform.
http://jayrosen.posterous.com/the-savvy-press-and-their-exemption-from-the
That's corporate media. There is a disconnect between the interests of the media and the interests of its audience, if not the truth entirely.
Which is why the whole enterprise cannot be trusted anymore.
#1 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 01:18 AM
"The national Republican Party has shrunk to a narrow base with no apparent agenda other than to oppose everything the Obama administration proposes."
I'm gonna make a wild guess - call it a hunch - that our reporter Terry is not a Republican. Probably for him spending one night watching Fox is worse than having root canal.
Flip Terry’s statement the other way and this is exactly the sort of thing that Hannity espouses every night. The difference is that Terry actually fancies himself as an unbiased observer.
Fascinating...
#2 Posted by JLD, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 04:17 AM
"The national Republican Party has shrunk to a narrow base with no apparent agenda other than to oppose everything the Obama administration proposes."
"I'm gonna make a wild guess - call it a hunch - that our reporter Terry is not a Republican... The difference is that Terry actually fancies himself as an unbiased observer. "
And, if one objectively looks at the evidence, that's exactly what he is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2CIsgdJcGA 1:30 in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JOfL7soZww 30 seconds in.
If you have a problem with a description of reality, take it up with the reality, not its describer.
That's just whining.
#3 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 07:30 AM
This is the damning link I was looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VOE6JRfDs8
#4 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 07:39 AM
Thimbles quoting Krugman on a CJR article about Fox News? It's like winning the trifecta.
Thanks for the links, but Youtube doesn't work here Beijing. I'll take your word for it as an "objective observer."
#5 Posted by JLD, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 08:14 AM
I think what often frustrates me the most is just this conversation happening in the comments. Whenever someone tries to point out that cable news, and Fox News especially, is in the business of getting ratings and advertisers, and to that end uses sensationalism and lies, its defenders come back with a weak "well, you're the mainstream media and therefore clearly a whiny liberal" argument. And if you follow this to its logical conclusion, there can be no news, only endless spectacle and empty words.
The fact of the matter is there is something called journalism, with a code of ethics and mechanisms to minimize bias. And there are still people who practice it, including the author of this piece, no matter how many ideologues claim otherwise. If you really want to make an argument that journalism is dead, you'll have to do better than ranting and name-calling.
#6 Posted by laura k, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 11:25 AM
how is msnbc any different? just a left-wing version of fox, no? i see all these articles about fox news - and yes, they are atop the ratings mountain, which must infuriate jerk-off elitists, but how is msnbc so different besides where viewership is concerned? i guess if you believe what msnbc preaches is right and what fox says is wrong, but then that would make someone woefully ignorant and useless for any real debate about politics/culture/etc.
#7 Posted by derby, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 12:21 PM
"No reasonable person would sincerely deny that Fox has a distinct bias favoring Republicans, and conservative Republicans especially."
What a terribly lazy argument. If I wrote, "no reasonable person would write for the Columbia Journalism Review", I have labeled you to be an unreasonable person, and it doesn't matter if you disagree with me, because you're unreasonable.
You're a better writer than that, so watch yourself next time.
#8 Posted by Jim, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 02:20 PM
Quote: But is it an arm of the GOP? Not unless you think Roger Ailes would actually work for Michael Steele.
Not only is this a rhetorical statement based on false premises, but conveniently forgets that Ailes actually came on board Nixon's floundering ship in '67 to fashion the "New" Nixon. It's what he does for GOP politicians and their aspirations: packages it as an attractive , 'cutting edge' PRODUCT. A BRAND.
The Emperor's apparel is, according to the writer, some of the most fabulous, trendy, edgy, runway couture ever seen in the kingdom.
Too bad he's actually naked.
This is the sort of endless 'learned' blather that we've come to expect from the legal profession, but journalism? Really?
Evidently.
Faux Nooz™ remains an arm of the GOP whether the writer chooses to bury the plain truth in persiflage or not.
#9 Posted by Hart Williams, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 02:24 PM
I think when you push a progressive agenda, support public schools and not charter schools, support the NEA and not vouchers, and believe strongly in integration, then you should put your money were your mouth is, so to speak, and send your kids to public schools. Especially if you are in politics and your last name is Clinton, Gore, Kennedy or Obama. Otherwise, you are a filthy hypocrite. That’s all I’m saying!
#10 Posted by Phil, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 02:33 PM
We pretend in its golden age news was this objective thing that sought Truth with a capital T. Like that scion of objective enlightened journalism known as Joseph Pulitzer?
#11 Posted by Ed Krayewski, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 02:41 PM
One obvious answer to the status quo that is cable rolling news would be to bring BBC World on air here in the US (the BBC operates not one but TWO 24/7 rolling news channels - one for the domestic UK market and one for a world market).
BBC World is probably 80% news and 20% "something else" (love that term btw). Not only would bring not only a level of quality (the BBC has more global bureau and people on the ground than any other news org) but it would also bring more world news agenda to the US market.
People claim the BBC doesn't live up to its "unbiased approach" - a view I tend not to agree with, and I spent 6 years working for the organization at the beginning of the last decade. But even if claims it is biased are true, I don't see any of the existing US rolling news players exuding better virtues. Plus, the *British* and *commercially independent* BBC is hardly going to be in favor of one *American* political party than the other.
But of course, we won't see the BBC World channel on our screens here in the US as the very players involved in the status quo - CNN (Turner), Fox, MSNBC (NBC, Comcast) own most of the delivery platforms and spectrum licenses.
When you pay your cable or dish bill every month, remember you are fueling the very status quo being written about here.
#12 Posted by Ben Metcalfe, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 02:46 PM
baloney
#13 Posted by BillB1, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 03:11 PM
Frankly, I don't think this article is an accurate assessment of the way Fox and MSNBC operate. I watch them both. Olbermann never has conservative guests, and Maddow and Schultz rarely have on conservative guests. Matthews has on quite a few and he, to me, has the most interesting show on MSNBC. I live on the West Coast so I don't watch Morning Joe too often as it is on so early, but I know they have on a good mix of guests.
Fox shows have on a lot more liberal guests than the MSNBC shows have on conservative guests. I don't particularly care for the show, but Hannity has one on every night on Great American panel. O'Reilly frequently has on liberal guests, as he seems to know it makes for good TV to have guests who will argue with him. I haven't watched much of Beck, but I think it is the one Fox show that doesn't have liberal guests.
I'm surprised the writer of this article would do as much research as he implies he's done and get this aspect of his article this wrong.
#14 Posted by frank, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 03:24 PM
YES
To the non-politicians here: the key fact -- CNN has 300% more reporters than FNC.
That is, CNN is oriented toward reporting, while FNC is oriented to 'talking heads.'
I think Howie Kurtz pointed out, Bernie Sanders of Vermont has gotten at least 300% more air time on FNC than CNN.
Which Sanders really likes.
Which one is "better?"
Contrary to the Democrats -- it depends what your preference is.
Bernie Sanders appears to love to talk on FNC.
Life goes on. Afflict the politicians -- without fear or favor.
#15 Posted by Russell, a retired front-line journalist, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 03:53 PM
YES
To the non-politicians here: the key fact -- CNN has 300% more reporters than FNC.
That is, CNN is oriented toward reporting, while FNC is oriented to 'talking heads.'
I think Howie Kurtz pointed out, Bernie Sanders of Vermont has gotten at least 300% more air time on FNC than CNN.
Which Sanders really likes.
Which one is "better?"
Contrary to the Democrats -- it depends what your preference is.
Bernie Sanders appears to love to talk on FNC.
Life goes on. Afflict the politicians -- without fear or favor.
#16 Posted by Russ, a retired REAL front-line reporter, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 03:55 PM
The GOP may appear to be as McDermott characterizes it, which is (depressingly) the shallow conventional wisdom. But Gallup has self-described 'conservatives' outpolling self-described 'liberals' by 40-21; insofar as orthodox pundits identify 'conservatism' with the Republican Party, they are missing the point once again - as the string of victories posted by the supposedly-dead Republicans since the Obama administration took office suggests. And also as the success of Fox News vis-a-vis MSNBC suggests as well. Fox has mastered cable news in the sense that Fox got to a huge underserved portion of the news-consuming public (most followers of the news remain older, more male, whiter, and more conservative than the average) before its competitors knew what hit them.
Also missing the point due to the painfully conformist ideological blinders was the characterization of the Republicans as having no ideas beyond opposing Obama. Remind me - what was the Democratic program in opposition to Bush? Opposition to his war in Iraq, opposition to his tax cuts, opposition to his attempts to reform Social Security and Medicare? I really think that urban liberalism is so much the air NY writers breathe that they don't even realize when they are applying political double standards.
#17 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 04:51 PM
In addition (sorry) I would like to see fewer predictable indictments of Fox vs. the free ride given MSNBC, which is nothing more than Fox's left-leaning mirror. MSNBC has no reporting staff of its own because it is able to rely on mother NBC. So you have a left-wing version of Fox closely affiliated and sharing staff with a supposedly neutral broadcast biggie. The line between advocacy and straight reporting is more blurred at MSNBC; Matthews and Olbermann anchored the cable net's election-night coverage in 2008, as I recall, and Maddow got reports from the glum (supposedly non-partisan) Norah O'Donnell from Massachusetts the night Brown was elected. Fox has not quite gone so far in mixing opinion and reporting as NBC/MSNBC, yet this gets nothing like the scrutiny given Fox. Gee, I wonder why?
#18 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 04:58 PM
http://s-ec-sm.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/2008/8/26/13/d92ac367c2e150b99bbeb32f5f2fffc6.jpg
http://www.bradblog.com/Images/FoxOReilly_MarkFoleyDEM_100306.jpg
Fair & Balanced, as usual.
The fact of the matter is that cable news is the ideal medium for people who aren't smart enough to come up with their own opinions.
I'm not saying that conservatives are dumb, that would be a sweeping generalization, but it's absolutely true that conservatives have courted the dumb demographic for decades now ("the jury's still out on creationism," using "intellectual" as if it's an insult, nominating Sarah Palin, etc.)
So it comes as no surprise that a majority of idiots (aka cable news viewers) tune in to a network that caters to idiots.
It also comes as no surprise that nobody watches Lehrer, and CNN's recent attempt to posture itself as a "nuanced, centrist" network has failed miserably.
People who are interested in the nuances of current events will READ about them and form their own opinions.
Idiots who aren't capable of critical analysis prefer to swallow prefabricated opinions from "trustworthy" guys like Bill O'Reilly hook, line & sinker, because that requires less effort.
#19 Posted by Hardrada, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 05:43 PM
By the way, the BIG story that CJR and other media critics keep ignoring is this: MSNBC and NBC curry favor with the Obama administration with fawning stories and commentaries 24/7.
And it is no secret that, a year ago, Jeff Immelt and Jeff Zucker met with many of the journalists/editors at CNBC and told them to back off on their hard-hitting criticisms of the Obama administration. Since that time, the CNBC have added more liberal analysts and take extra care to get the liberal perspective on economy/market issues. I know, because I watch it quite often.
Now, why hasn't anyone questioned this HUGE conflict of interest? GE, the parent company of these networks, wants to get billions of dollars worth of contracts from the Obama administration for carbon trading, education consulting, and so on.
This could be the biggest conflict of interest in financial terms ever in the nation's history, and our media watchdogs simply yawn and look the other way. Amazing.
#20 Posted by frank, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 06:43 PM
Hardrada: those look Photoshopped. I can tell by the pixels and by having seen a lot of Shops in my days.
#21 Posted by TheLastBrainLeft, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 08:09 PM
frank, remember who owns NBC (at least for now). That would be General Electric. Why do you think NBC-Universal is a major pusher of going "green"? Because GE is the ONLY supplier of wind turbines in North America. No wonder they suck up to Obama.
#22 Posted by TheLastBrainLeft, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 08:12 PM
Fine JLD. A summary of lockstep partisanship from another Chinese expatriate which near everyone agrees on is an excellent journalist.
Take it away James Fallows:
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2010/02/why-bipartisanship-cant-work-the-expert-view/35101/
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2010/02/more-from-the-why-bipartisanship-cant-work-guy/35199/
#23 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 08:46 PM
And jon stewart on fox:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-29-2009/for-fox-sake-
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-march-3-2010/anchor-management 2:50 minutes in
#24 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 08:58 PM
nobody gives credit where credit is due. the audience has complete control of the clicker. they decide who is being honest with them and who is trying give them B.S. the ratings are a reflection of the truth to B,S, ratio.
#25 Posted by clyde, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:12 PM
It's always funny reading how incredibly ignorant and hypocritical leftists are. Yes, Fox News does lean right just as MSNBC and CNN lean left. But hey, let's ignore the left leaning media and attack ONLY Fox News for doing the same exact thing that every other major media outles does. I would much prefer that the media be balanced and unbiased. You, and people like you, on the other hand, DO NOT want that. What upsets you people is not that Fox News is biased, but rather that they lean right. Your so called journalistic piece would hold more credence if you would attack the mainstream media as a whole instead of attacking the media that leans differently from yourselves. Let's be honest here people, you don't like the folks at Fox News because they think differently than youselves. Tis what it is all about. Free speech liberals? Right!
#26 Posted by Michael, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:16 PM
This is clearly opinion and partisan at that, which makes you guilty of what you accuse Fox of doing. Rather amusing.
Pot... kettle.. black..
#27 Posted by Doc Merlin, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:21 PM
Hi Thimbles,
I like Fallows too (we agree on something!), but not his politics, which lean hard left and partisan. It's also a little disingenuous to cite Jimmy Carter's speechwriter as a non-biased political observer.
My basic point with the CJR piece above is that if you are trying to pretend to be a neutral observer of Fox News it doesn't bolster your case to include a personal rant against Republicans. That seems pretty obvious.
Cheers,
#28 Posted by JLD, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:23 PM
The website has nothing but left wing waco crazies, and thats just the article writers...I don't think a term exists to describe these commenters.
#29 Posted by aposematic, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:26 PM
Wonderful satire! I couldn't stop laughing. Another "thoughtful" critique by a liberal pretending to be objective. It reminds me of all those self-described "objective" political shows with panels of pundits on the networks, and now on CNN, that always seem to consist of 3-4 Democrats and just one Republican. The networks were always left-biased, just look at Cronkite, Rather, Jennings, Couric, Stephanopoulos and hundreds of others we've been forced to suffer through since the early 60's, before FOX News brought some measure of balance and made many enemies for doing so. The writer seems oblivious to the fact that in our market-driven society FOX News can be whatever it wants to be, no matter how much he dislikes it. This article is nothing more than opinion, disguised as critique.
#30 Posted by Allahdad Nazif, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:33 PM
"My basic point with the CJR piece above is that if you are trying to pretend to be a neutral observer of Fox News it doesn't bolster your case to include a personal rant against Republicans. That seems pretty obvious."
And I'd agree if there wasn't a case to be made for it. But there is, and if the writer above deserves criticism, it's for not not making that case - instead relying on what should be common knowledge to justify it.
If he's going to make a statement like that, it should be supported by marshaled evidence. Can we agree on that?
#31 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:35 PM
Thimbles, I think we can agree that any such statement should be supported by evidence. (Wow, we're on a roll today!)
#32 Posted by JLD, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:49 PM
"The national Republican Party has shrunk to a narrow base with no apparent agenda other than to oppose everything the Obama administration proposes."
Anyone who has actually followed the political debates of the past 2 years would see this is not true. Anyone who bothered to read or view any statements by Republicans as to WHY they oppose Obama policies, or what they propose instead, would discover a coherent philosophy of government (whether or not individual politicians adhere to it; I mean- they're politicians). You would also discover many proposals by Republicans based on the philosophy of small goverment and free markets, which they have tried to include in legislation over and over.
None of this is secret - all you have to do is... journalism. Go find out. Go ask. Instead you regurgitate conventional wisdom, propaganda served straight from Barack Obama's mouth. In fact since the GOP tries to get media attention for its proposals, you have to guard your blinders carefully, walking briskly looking neither right nor left, to maintain this glib fiction about the GOP.
So I'm supposed to take seriously whatever you say about Fox News? Sorry, you just shot yourself in the foot, and you are so sloppy you didn't notice or so contemptuous you didn't care. And that's typical of what we call the liberal MSM.
I challenge you Terry, to be a journalist, and to investigate what the Republican legislators' agenda is and how they are trying to bring it about. You don't have to LIKE it. Just be a real journalist and write about it. Maybe then I'll take you seriously.
#33 Posted by Sophie, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:56 PM
Thimbles wrote, "And I'd agree if there wasn't a case to be made for it. But there is, and if the writer above deserves criticism, it's for not not making that case - instead relying on what should be common knowledge to justify it."
Case? In a free market system with freedom of speech somehow FOX News is on trial and a case is to be made against it? That is SO Soviet. FOX News can be whatever it wants, and according to ratings they are a huge success. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I don't like MSNBC, so I simply ignore it. It'll eventually go away.
#34 Posted by Allahdad Nazif, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 09:57 PM
Also I like this bit of literate impartiality:
"Fox News isn’t part of the GOP; it has simply (and shamelessly) mastered the confines of cable"
Shamelessly? Are they supposed to be ashamed of "master[ing] the confines of cable"? (whatever that means...) So if Fox is "shameless" - isn't that pejorative? Can we assume right off the bat you have an attitude about Fox News?
Combine this with the know-nothing snark about the Republican Party, and we can see that this article is an example of a politically-slanted opinion piece, like the majority of Fox programming (as you say). But since it's opinion, it's not reporting, and we can ignore whatever facts you claim to have discerned.
#35 Posted by Sophie, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 10:03 PM
I'd be interested to take an open, honest poll of every single Columbia J-school student: what they believe, who their parents vote for, what they think.
What are the collective J-school students PERSONAL opinions on:
a) Abortion
b) Israel
c) Fox News
d) Jon Stewart
e) Defense Spending
f) Legalized Marajuana
g) The Public Option
h) Tort Reform
i) An Inconvenient Truth
j) Matt Damon
k) the movie Manufacturing Consent
l) Pell Grants
m) the band Green Day
n) Edward Said
o) Nietzsche
p) MSNBC
q) Christiane Amanpour
r) Professorial Tenure
s) Salon.com
t) Atheism
u) Middle America
v) Health Care
w) Bill Maher
x) The People's History of the United States
y) The Righteousness of Che Guevara
z) The Idiocy of Rush Limbaugh
You'll find an agreement above 93% issue by issue. In fact, J-school kids, talk aloud about each issue amongst yourselves - with tape recorders rolling and with names stated clearly. :) Yeah - that will happen.
#36 Posted by ECW, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 10:17 PM
Awwww. Does it hurt? Does it hurt?
The Left does not own all the media channels any more. Boo hoo.
#37 Posted by West, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 10:35 PM
what a load of crap....Let's see Fox is part of the RNC but CNN with all the former Clinton staff and ABC with George Stephonouplous and of course MSNBC with the idiots Maddow and Olberman are great and "unbiased" news-and do a wonderful job and you can tell this by their dwindling if not non-existent audiences...Yup that makes sense...Next you will tell me the New York slimes is objective as is of course NBC, Katie Couric and the Washington post...just say, "Fox takes advantage of all the stupid Americans who aren't as enlightened as we are"....Gee I wonder why Callifornia, NY, ILL, Fla, are all the most bankrupt states? Could it be they are run by democrats (the enlightened and wise) or is it that Democrats have destroyed cities and states around the country? I' just can't figure out this correlation..Will one of the englightened help me out?
#38 Posted by Dr D, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 10:42 PM
yes, only CNN and MSNBC bring accuracy to news....Keith Olberman is nothing but objective . . Same with George Stephonouplos, etc.....
#39 Posted by Dr D, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 10:44 PM
I find it funny that the people who watch FOX news are upset because some guy expressed his opinion of it.
Since, in the same breath, many of them are defending FOX news's right to express it's opinion.
"Liberals don't have the same rights! The media should be OBJECTIVE for them and SLANTED for us! Free Markets! Whoo!"
Meanwhile a bunch of them are getting upset that their beloved network is 'getting slimed' without evidence while attacking other media institutions without evidence.
"Accuse FOX news of bias!? For shame! At least they not Mao's Socialist Network of Bitching and Complaining. New York Slimes! I crack me up! Didn't you know CNN's janitor is an ex-Clinton aide!?"
Distract, confuse, make the audience guess what bowl the coin is under. These are carny tricks, not arguments.
MSNBC does have a lot of opinion and they do go a little too far and they do occasionally make mistakes, but, unlike FOX and friends, their opinions are rooted in facts more often than not, they have limits as to how far they will go and they make apologies when they do go to far, and they correct the record if they get it wrong on the first take.
FOX, and the hobgoblins which network with them, don't as a general rule. They are a dirty tricks, ratf*cking network who's primary mission is to serve the interests of right wing politics.
Which is why Anyone who has actually followed the political debates of the past 10 years would see that there is no consistency to Republicans. Anyone who bothered to read or view any statements by Republicans during the Bush era would be confused as to WHY they oppose Obama policies now.
(FTFY Sophie)
So you tell me, what are the objectives of good media and tell me how FOX meets those objectives.
Don't whine about the other networks, about who's Clinton skeleton is in who's closet; don't whine about the sinful writer who dared express an opinion, tell me about FOX.
Why shouldn't it be scrutinized? What makes it better than any other news source? Why should we trust it? How is the FOX system delivering more accurate information than anyone else on the market?
How can you make any of the claims above unless you show the evidence for them?
No more carny tricks. If you're going to defend FOX, defend it. Attacking everyone else and crying "Victim" isn't a defense.
#40 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 9 Mar 2010 at 11:19 PM
Oh... how biased is Fox News... blah blah blah.
As has been stated before, but must be repeated for all ye lefties out there... MSNBC, CNN, etc. and their "journalists" are, of course, unbiased.
More and more people are seeing through this lefty hypocritical crap.
CJR = Communist Journalism Review
"Peace, love, dope! Now shut the hell up and get the hell out of here!"
#41 Posted by Danny, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 12:46 AM
Blah, blah, blah. Where do you go get a job these days with a journalism degree from Columbia? Starbucks?
#42 Posted by Ken Puck, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 12:56 AM
LOL, Thimbles...you crack me up! Your comment here reflects the truth of this article more than you seem to know...
"I find it funny that the people who watch FOX news are upset because some guy expressed his opinion of it."
REALLY!?! What a hoot! Some...guy...expressed...his...OPINION!
Hate to tell you, but OPINION is NOT JOURNALISM!
If you can see it's opinion, but somehow can still praise its message, then you stand on the same swampy ground as your detractors.
#43 Posted by Steve, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 01:00 AM
Yeah, it's an opinion. A lot of what is on Columbia Journalism REVIEW (my kingdom for a blink tag) is an opinion. (Cue the dragnet theme)
"Dah Dah Dah Dah DUMB!"
So if you object to opinion in journalism then you MUST object to FOX News's slanted coverage, right?
Either that OR you don't object to the principle of inserting opinion amongst news and therefore you have NO REAL BEEF with the article above.
It's just another opinion, right? And surely you don't object, based on the opinion/fact separation issue, only when you disagree with the opinions expressed, right? That would make you a hack, right?
Good day.
#44 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 01:40 AM
Mr. McDermott presents his observations--i.e., opinion--about Fox News based on the anecdotal evidence of one night's viewing. (Never mind the fact that the premise of his exercise gives the game away as to his presuppositions: neither MSNBC nor CNN have come in for such contemplation and scrutiny about their legitimacy as news operations.)
Mr. McDermott cites CNN's greater international presence. But what's the use of a large international press operation if it is there to advance a worldview or to narrowly defend corporate access interests?
He forgets to mention CNN executive Jordan Eason confessing that for years they had pulled punches--and blatantly suppressed news--in Baghdad in order not to run afoul of Saddam and protect both access and, as he put it, the safety of CNN reporters and contacts. The result: a sanitized, distorted picture.
He also neglects to mention that for years CNN's Woman in Havana was the egregious Lucía Newman, a Chilean whose husband had ties to the government of deposed/assasinated Marxist president Salvador Allende. For those years (and to this day) we heard about free schools and hospitals but hardly ever about "Acts of Repudiation": state violence against citizens in which regime opponents are subjected to Mao-era Cultural Revolution-style government-organized mobs hurling threats and objects, and physically assaulting their targets.
We also did not hear consistently about tourism apartheid--until recently Cubans could not visit hotels, restaurants or resorts designated for tourists--or about the democracy movement's precarious existence, or about the plight of political prisoners, especially the blacks whom the government holds out for special harsh treatment as ingrates (q.v, Orlando Zapata Tamayo, who died after a hunger strike last week; or Miguel Valdés Tamayo, who died in 2007; both of whose deaths followed denial of medical treatment in prison). Lucía Newman could not report on stories like these because she was dutifully recording the staged rallies for the return of Elián...
Here are some other anecdotes for Mr. McDermott:
If he had tuned in during early September 2008 to Canmpbell Brown's talk show soon after the GOP convention, he would have been treated to a "balanced" panel of Gloria Borger, Jeffrey Toobin and Dana Milbank drawing and quartering Sarah Palin. This immediately after her almost-universally applauded convention speech and before her stints with Professor Charlie Gibson--glowering with glasses down the tip of his nose--and the inquiring Katie Couric who thought she'd lay a snare with questions about what the bumpkin Palin read...
Or, if he had tuned in during the summer of 2009, he could have heard Afro-American host Tony Harris, usually affable but that morning virtually in rapture, invite his viewers to "let the scene wash over us" as Obama took the podium for what would be one of too many healthcare stump speeches.
Or later in the fall, he could have seen another Campbell Brown "balanced" panel consisting of The Daily Beast's Tina Brown and Huffington Post's Ariana Huffington, on the left, Karen Tumulty on the media-line center-left, and--for good measure--conservative former congresswoman Susan Molinari. Fair match? Sure looked like 3 to 1 to me--not counting Campbell herself.
The point is that anecdotes are as anecdotes do...my sample is larger and spread out over a broader span of time. Mr. McDermott thinks he's proven a salient point just because on Fox--as on the Daily Beast and TNR, among others--Obama's Nobel was not the subject of uncritical praise. If I remember correctly, it was a howling headline in the Daily Beast that feared for the president's embarrassment (and discredit from hubris) that screamed: "For What?!"
#45 Posted by javier garcía, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 01:51 AM
When this article began, I was wondering what standard the author would propose for determining whether a cable news network was news or opinion. As the article continued, it seemed the standard would be the ratio between news coverage and opinion. This suggestion seemed to be going nowhere when the author wrote the following paragraph arguing that MSNBC is somehow more newsy, so to speak, than Fox News:
"It’s worth noting that MSNBC languished in the cable news ratings competition until becoming more sharply opinionated, in that way becoming a left-leaning analog to Fox. It’s highly doubtful this change was due to political considerations. In other ways, though, MSNBC is not a Fox analog at all. Although its overall operation is sharply to the left of Fox, it offers a wider array of guests and doesn’t completely shut out Republicans. Matthews, for example, on the day in question conducted a friendly interview with two Tea Party Republican activists. The existence of Morning Joe, starring outspoken conservative Joe Scarborough, on MSNBC’s morning air offers further evidence."
This paragraph propounds several falsehoods. First, MSNBC's ratings for its left-wing ranter Kieth Olbermann are worse than ever, and MSNBC consistently ranks third and fourth among the cable news networks while Fox News consistently ranks first and has done for many years.
(tvbythenumbers.com) March 8, 2010
P2+ Total Day:
FNC – 1,401,000 viewers
CNN – 425,000 viewers
MSNBC –379,000 viewers
CNBC – 215,000 viewers
HLN – 317,000 viewers
P2+ Prime Time
FNC – 2,863,000 viewers
CNN – 651,000 viewers
MSNBC –930,000 viewers
CNBC – 308,000 viewers
HLN –544,000 viewers
Next, Fox News regularly invites lefties to voice their take on the news on its serious news programs, such as Fox News Sunday (e.g. Juan Williams) and Fox News Watch (e.g. Ellis Hennigan). Fox News' opinion jocks do the same, and before they roughed up, the lefties get a fair shot at making their case. Finally, Alan Colmes - a lefty - used to co-host an opinion show on Fox News with Sean Hannity. Colmes left the TV show but still does a radio show on Fox News Radio.
In view of all this evidence, it seems that MSNBC is a left-wing analog to Fox News, which is why MSNBC consistently draws less than 1/3 of the viewers that Fox News does. It also seems that the author of the present article in answer to the question posed tried to apply on the sly the following standard: Whether there's balance between openly declared leftists and conservatives in the hosted opinion shows, and whether the news show hosts have treated their leftist and conservative guests fairly. As measured by both parts of this standard, Fox News comes out as more newsy than MSNBC. Hence, the present article is typical of our ideologically and professionally underhanded news media. But I enjoyed it anyway.
#46 Posted by Lavaux, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 01:55 AM
"The national Republican Party has shrunk to a narrow base with no apparent agenda other than to oppose everything the Obama administration proposes. This extends even to opposing policies Republicans either created or once supported. In explaining these reversals, Republicans frequently say that their changes of position—for example, on deficit-reduction measures that they routinely dismissed when in the majority—owes mainly to changes in national circumstances. But the main circumstance that seems to have changed is their loss of formal power in Washington."
No pre-conceived bias or agenda here, huh?
#47 Posted by akw, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 03:13 AM
the problem is that the truth has a liberal bias. when a liberal writer says that "No reasonable person would sincerely deny that Fox has a distinct bias favoring Republicans" and "The national Republican Party has... no apparent agenda other than to oppose everything the Obama administration proposes" it comes across as a product of liberal bias when it is in fact the truth. straight news organizations can't report the truth about conservatives because it gets labeled as liberal bias.
#48 Posted by Kyle Chandler, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 03:37 AM
I'm beginning to think liberals should concentrate on subjects like music, art or drama in college - subjects that allow them to express themselves and are not too taxing. Modern dance maybe? Instead of spending one day watching FOX News, the writer might have appreciated the Bravo channel more.
#49 Posted by Allahdad Nazif, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 03:40 AM
As Kyle says, akw's post is exactly the problem. Many republicans will freely admit that they are simply opposing all Obama / Dem policies in an effort to return to power as soon as possible and the idea that some Republicans are voting against policies which they previously supported simply because a Democrat is proposing them is simply a matter of referring to the voting records. Unfortunately in the modern climate, stating simple facts like this can be dismissed by those on the right as liberal bias.
#50 Posted by Pete, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 05:11 AM
The funniest thing is this "writer" is clearly not as biased as some of you espouse. The article is myopic and tells only one side of the story. Where I come from, that's called propaganda.
The fact is FNC does report with a right wing slant. But they also invite liberals and Democrats on so they can have their say too. More often than not they just end up being roasted or dancing around the issue.
All that aside, I find it completely hilarious that the one network that actually speaks from a perspective of the largest ideological group in the country causes liberals to start their incessant whining, as they do anytime someone doesn't follow their lead. God forbid that conservatives FINALLY have just one network who views the world as they do, instead of looking down on them and telling them they're inbred racist hillbillies.
#51 Posted by wsorrian, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 05:20 AM
It amazes me how individuals ATTACK Fox News. Any rational human being KNOWS that the four reporters in the prime time evening shows are going to give a particular slant on the NEW.
Obviously the author is an Obama supporter at the highest level. If he had done research and wanted to report the news.
He would take a look at FOX NEWS since that RICH SAUDI PRINCE bought into Fox News in December of 2009. OBAMA could not beat Fox News in a Fair Manner... he had to get one of his Rich Muslims to buy into Fox News. (Follow the Money)
O'Reilly and Beck have gone 'weak-kneed' on Obama since that time.
Basically they have turned traitor to Americans.. not reporting the Fair and Balanced that they highlight.
Obama FINALLY defeated Fox News... but only by calling in a FAVOR for the Arabs..
True Muslim networking there..
IMPEACH OBAMA NOW.
#52 Posted by Bob Miller, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 06:09 AM
You wrote:
"That being the case, Fox “declined to participate” in my reporting, which is another way of saying I should go do something to myself and possibly the horse I rode in on, too."
That seems like opinion to me. Is this and are you doing opinion pieces, or news reporting?
#53 Posted by GOP, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 07:18 AM
When you pretend that Chris Matthew, Keith Olbermann, and Rachel Maddow are somehow not the most radical extremist talking heads on the planet, you lose credibility.
CJR? As far-left as MSNBC, and equally unread and unwatched.
#54 Posted by Karen, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 07:43 AM
It's funny how left wing hacks posing as journalists are EVERYWHERE but can't be seen by the left wing hacks at CJR. Fox is good for democracy for promoting alternatives to the oldschool full blown left wing front that the networks and CNN presented. Quit bitching that there is some challenge to your leftism you hack.
#55 Posted by Erich M., CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 07:48 AM
Lordy,
Talk about projective progressive naval gazing. We are screwed if this analysis represents the "critical thinking" going on in academia today.
#56 Posted by Jose Bang Bang, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 08:00 AM
In order for the writer to prepare a totally credible side by side comparision of the three networks, he should get tapes from some active news day in 2007 or 2008.
Review a full day of CNN and MSNBC in attack mode rather than defense mode with FOX in whatever mode they were in at the time..
#57 Posted by Dennis Billew, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 08:01 AM
Boy, the fox bots are out in force tonite!
I think that you people are missing the real issue with Fox, the issue that I tried to focus on in the initial comment on this piece.
I could care less if the opinions on fox news are slanted conservative or liberal. I have no problem with opinion content exceeding news content, in fact I think it's better to have a journalist tell an audience "such and such is true and such and such is false" rather than 'objectively report' CNN style "so and so said *crazy ass thing* and people want to know could *crazy ass thing* be true?".
Journalists are supposed to be able to convey the truth. They should be allowed to make calls, and give supporting reasons, instead of 'objectively' repeat a bunch of stuff told to them and shrug when it comes to the integrity of the content. "Hey, I'm just the mail man. I deliver the mail, I don't write it." is not a preferable attitude towards the news process. Opinion is good, no matter the slant, when it is factually based.
The problem with FOX news is that they lie too much and spread sloppy stories when it suits their narrative. They don't just slant the truth, they quite often make it up. That is what makes them despicable.
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201001310010 Krugman commenting to Roger Ailes
"PK: If I can just -- you know, what bothers me is not the nasty language. Glenn Beck doesn't, you know, it's not -- what bothers me is the fact that people are not getting informed, that we are going through major debates on crucial policy issues; the public is not learning about them. And you know, you can say, well, they can read the New York Times, which will tell them what they need to know, but you know, most people don't. They don't read it thoroughly. They get -- on this health care thing, I'm a little obsessed with it, because it's a key issue for me. People did not know what was in the plan, and some of that was just poor reporting, some of it was deliberate misinformation. I have here in front of me when President Obama said, you know, why -- he said rhetorically, why aren't we going to do a health care plan like the Europeans have, with a government-run program, and then proceeds to explain whey he's different. On Fox News, what appeared was a clipped quote, "why don't we have a European-style health care plan?" Right, deliberate misinformation."
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-november-10-2009/sean-hannity-uses-glenn-beck-s-protest-footage Hannity mixing footage scum bag crap
I could go on, put more and more of examples of "deliberate misinformation", if the spam filter let me, but the proof is in the viewer, as so many fox bots have mentioned.
pt 2 to come:
#58 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:07 AM
I was willing to put up with all the biased fluff in this article until you got to the last couple of paragraphs, figured that you couldn't keep it in your pants longer, and cracked out this bit of journalistic gold:
"In other ways, though, MSNBC is not a Fox analog at all. Although its overall operation is sharply to the left of Fox, it offers a wider array of guests and doesn’t completely shut out Republicans. Matthews, for example, on the day in question conducted a friendly interview with two Tea Party Republican activists. The existence of Morning Joe, starring outspoken conservative Joe Scarborough, on MSNBC’s morning air offers further evidence."
followed by "The national Republican Party has shrunk to a narrow base with no apparent agenda other than to oppose everything the Obama administration proposes."
You almost had us fooled! Just a couple more paragraphs and you might have been able to pass this off as an actual hard-news look into the Fox operation rather than the bias-apparent hit piece that it turned out to be! SO CLOSE!
So you're saying that Fox doesn't allow Democrats on their network, and that MSNBC regularly courts Republicans? Or are you implying that MSNBC has more Republicans on than Fox does Democrats? Either way, you'd be wrong. I won't comment on the second quip I quoted as it appears you haven't been drawing from quality sources (or making any attempt to at all!). This begs the question: Is this willful ignorance of the facts or was there simply not enough research done into the topic of this piece before compiling this article? Either way, this is awful journalism. Or maybe this is an example of superb journalism, in some circles. The line has become so blurred recently that it's becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate, like with that hack outfit Fox News. Nobody likes them at all.
#59 Posted by Eric, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:21 AM
And study after study has shown that FOX News consumers are some of the least informed / most misinformed people in America.
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqMedia_Oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/19/fox-news-viewers-misinformed/
People who watch FOX news either don't know that they are regularly being lied to or they want to be lied to because they are rooting for "Team Conservative America" and they want their team to win.
Their politics are not things to think about, they're sports to watch with scores to celebrate and refs to shout at. They want the other team to lose and their team to win dammit!
Politics are not sports. People die because of politics. When a news organization influences politics with lies, people die for lies and that news organization is responsible.
It's one thing to have an opinion based on reality, it's another to have an opinion based on a made up reality. The problem with fox is that "We report, Stuff we make up and then, You decide!"
Put all the opinion in you want, conservative or liberal, but keep it real. Don't lie to me if you want my respect.
Is that too much to ask, FOX?
#60 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:30 AM
Yaaawwwwwnnn.... FOX news is not news. It's conservative opinion spoon fed to the ignorant by white bigots. I didn't need this article to tell me that. And you give them too much credit by giving them an "analysis". Who cares? And yes, we already know.
#61 Posted by Keith, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:34 AM
Yaaawwwwwnnn.... FOX news is not news. It's conservative opinion spoon fed to the ignorant by white bigots. I didn't need this article to tell me that. And you give them too much credit by giving them an "analysis". Who cares? And yes, we already know.
#62 Posted by keith, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:35 AM
It is silly to see the defenders of Fox claim that Fox News is not biased.
An army of right wing conformist dittoheads show up and endlessly type talking points whenever someone challenges their monolithic opinions.
They have two defenses of Fox, none of which address Fox itself. First they claim MSNBC is worse. This is not rue and would not matte if it was truer. "Others sin" is not a defense of sins.
Second, they claim that they were reading with an open mind until something in the piece gave away that it was an attack. This essay started with the premise that Fox was different and not a News operation.
Nobody I know is servile or cowardly enough to be a right winger, but what really makes a right winger is their fear-filled ignorance. Right wingers wander from 24Hour Hate Radio to 24Hour Fox GOP propaganda to 24Hour Internet sites that tell them what to think and what to feel and what to repeat.
BTW, the MSNBC morning is dominated by a former GOP southern congressman and his blonde liberal bashing sidekick. When MSNBC had the rich boy torturer Cheney service boy Marc Thiessen on, the GOP congressman protected Thiessen from being asked questions by O'Donnell.
It helps to be a wealthy sissy if you want to be a right wing errand boy/torture maven.
The sheer knee-jerk, Castro-like belief in repeating long lies and torturing people marks the modern day GOP as the Greatest Tool Shed ever constructed.
#63 Posted by tomcj, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:38 AM
There's something to be said for the BBC model:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_amyJCLmMY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TTtPMy-7RY
#64 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 10:01 AM
Fox News leans to the right, featuring pundits who can't get on the air anywhere else. MSNBC leans to the left. CNN and the networks believe they are playing it down the middle, but promotion to top on-air positions is reserved for liberals like Couric and Stephanopoulos. The former has stated that she thinks The New York Times is a centrist paper, which is ridiculous, given its relentless promotion of cultural issues from an urban-leftish perspective; we all know the resume of the latter. So for CNN, etc., a story treatment may be 'fair', but is presented within a liberal framework known to anyone who knows people in the NY-Washington political-media echo chamber.
My complaint against Fox News is that by the standards to which it is held, 'mainstream' news organizations are also guilty of often systematic spin. The author's ear is not sensitive to this because the author's mind-set, as can be easily understood, is coterminus with the urban, liberal-oriented mindset of most journalists. It's a problem, since this means that journalists miss out on a lot that Fox picks up on early, notably the potential for a strong negative reaction to the Obama administration's health care plan.
BTW, Palin-haters, I keep 'not seeing' that discussion of media treatment of Sarah Palin post-2008 vs. that of John Edwards post-2004. By your standards, Edwards is 'smarter', in a narrow, glib-lawyer way; in a broader sense, he is dumber than Sarah Palin will ever be. I think Republican voters are far less blinded by Palin and ideology than Democratic voters were by Edwards and ideology, so I'm not quite sure why there is so much assertion of intellectual superiority on the part of Democrats. With intelligence in leadership that puts Nancy Pelosi in charge of national health care and came close to putting a pathological narcissist a heartbeat away from the presidency, Dem activists on this thread are not in a strong position to question the 'intelligence' (whatever is meant by that in a party with a strong Luddite component) of others.
#65 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 01:02 PM
Sorry, but after electing president Cheney and his vacuous front man, Bush, twice we could have put Andy Dick a heartbeat away from the presidency and we'd still be in a strong position to question the intelligence of the ones responsible for the previous debacles. And that party, who has resisted science from evolution to stem cells, from renewable power and fuel efficiency standards to climate research, is in no position to point the finger when it comes to being a luddite.
Spin isn't the problem. Lying is. You've got one case that stands out over the years, Food Lion, which you call deplorable. Fox has a "Food Lion" equivalent monthly. There are hundreds of examples where they have given airtime to provable lies.
Spin isn't the problem when the base is truth.
Fox has an honesty problem, not a spin one.
#66 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 02:47 PM
PS. Isn't anyone going to have a crack at this?
"So you tell me, what are the objectives of good media and tell me how FOX meets those objectives.
Don't whine about the other networks, about who's Clinton skeleton is in who's closet; don't whine about the sinful writer who dared express an opinion, tell me about FOX.
Why shouldn't it be scrutinized? What makes it better than any other news source? Why should we trust it? How is the FOX system delivering more accurate information than anyone else on the market?
How can you make any of the claims above unless you show the evidence for them?
No more carny tricks. If you're going to defend FOX, defend it. Attacking everyone else and crying "Victim" isn't a defense."
#67 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 02:56 PM
You leftists sure are thick! The main point being presented here by those of us who aren't left wing hacks is that Fox News is biased just like all the other news organizations out there. So, why single out Fox News? If you were really interested in news reporting being unbiased you would attack the mainstream media as a whole. Instead, you only attack those news organanizations that lean differently from yourselves. Fox News is here to stay! Deal with it!
#68 Posted by Michael, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 04:02 PM
"PS. Isn't anyone going to have a crack at this?"
You are a typical leftist! You want everyone to concede your point while at the same time you refuse, and even ask, that other counter points are not talked about. Sorry, but you don't get to frame the conversation in such ways. So, if you're waiting for someone to respond to your ignorant questions that are framed in such a way as to control the conversation I'm sure you'll be waiting quite some time. You are nothing more than what you accuse Fox News of being. You're just to wrapped up in your own self-righteousness to see anything past your own self-righteousness.
#69 Posted by Michael, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 04:10 PM
The bottom line:
CABLE NEWS RACE
Tuesday, March 9, 2010
FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,499,000
FOXNEWS BECK 3,406,000
FOXNEWS HANNITY 2,901,000
FOXNEWS BAIER 2,686,000
FOXNEWS SHEP 2,243,000
FOXNEWS GRETA 2,027,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 1,004,000
MSNBC MADDOW 994,000
CNNHN BEHAR 785,000
CNN KING 699,000
CNN COOPER 582,000
#70 Posted by Allahdad Nazif, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 06:01 PM
Thimbles, now you just entered the realm of idiocy. Your biggest mistake is using mediamatter, thinkprogress, and laughably the dailiy show as reliable sources. It's completely ridiculous that you claim FNC isn't news, but then link to these ideological propaganda sites. NIce proving nothing....except your own ignorance.
As for the rest of you morons, you feed right into the stereotypical liberal narrative. When faced with opposition, and evidence of its relevancy, you immediately resorted to calling them ignorant, without pointing to an example as I did, or the obligatory "bigot" label. The latter being nothing more than a way of stifling debate and then claiming victory, whilst pounding your chest decalring your purist moral superiority.
Pathetic.
#71 Posted by wsorrian, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 06:07 PM
"When faced with opposition, and evidence of its relevancy, you immediately resorted to calling them ignorant, without pointing to an example as I did, or the obligatory 'bigot' label."
That's because conservatives and wingnuts are ignorant. What don't people like you understand about that? And, you baselessly claim Media Matters and Think Progress are ideological and propaganda sites, while ignoring the FACTS that they show in their research. Did you ever actually look at what their research shows? Of course not, because you know you will be proven wrong.
You right away see that they expose conservatives for the propaganda artists they are, and without proving in any way that they are wrong or nonfactual, you act like they don't exist. Facts have a liberal bias... and facts are the biggest enemy for conservatives. Plain and simple.
People like you have no shame and care nothing about facts... it's all a left/right issue with you. If the message is not ideologically driven the way you want, regardless of facts or evidence, you complain until you get your way. Ironically, that's very similar to how the GOP operates in congress. Complaining and saying no until they get their foot in the door to just keep doing the same thing.
#72 Posted by kevin, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:06 PM
By the way, just in case you foxbots didn't already realize... it doesn’t help the “news” operation at Fox too much when the network is run by a former GOP media consultant under 3 different Republican presidents. That means he was inside the white house working closely and directly with the President of the United States regarding the media and how to frame propaganda talking points... which is what he still does at Fox.
By the way, last time I checked, MSNBC nor CNN are run by former (or current) members of a party or consulted a political party or candidate on partisan issues. Think about that little nugget of information before being gullible sheep for your little propaganda network over there.
P.S. MSNBC has a 3-hour morning block hosted by a former Republican congressman... yet, they are still far-left network? Wow.
#73 Posted by kevi, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:21 PM
"You leftists sure are thick! The main point being presented here by those of us who aren't left wing hacks is that Fox News is biased just like all the other news organizations out there."
And I already said I don't care about that. Bias is not a problem. I do not care about bias. Bias shmias, conservative or liberal.
"So, why single out Fox News?"
Because they lie. A LOT. This is provable both by the amount of incidents and the amount of misinformed consumers.
"If you were really interested in news reporting being unbiased you would attack the mainstream media as a whole."
I did. Read my first post. I said that the whole enterprise is disconnected from the public.
But one side is obsessed with trivial garbage which is more political gossip column than the news that helps a democracy function. And if anyone would have wanted to explore that further I would say that the reason for gossip column news is because it fits the format. As a journalist, like Dana Milbank and Mark Halperin, you don't have to know anything to make copy. You just have to have good ears and an asshole personality. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHwyEbuWeso
Click here if you want an asshole fix.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9480FC92F78F470D&search_query=Mouthpiece+Theater
pt 2 in a sec
#74 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 09:55 PM
Personality and conventional wisdom makes easy copy. It's easier not have an informed opinion about anything since expressing a informed opinion counter to conventional wisdom involves justifying it. Justifying your informed opinion takes tv time and text that could be monetized for ad space. Editors and producers would rather cut you off, making you look like a fool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQZOVokDkOk
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-october-12-2009/cnn-leaves-it-there
then let you fight the tide. In this way fox and conservative medium is different. They fight to change conventional wisdom. They express their opinions and Hannity and O'Reilly are allowed to count their reasons for it off their hands. The conservative media structure isn't purely profit oriented, it's also persuasion oriented. They are willing to let people talk in order to build a new consensus.
Rush Limbaugh, for instance, is allowed to talk about why it's suddenly okay and not unpatriotic to root for a president and a country's failure. He's given that time to change the contours of conversation from worship of the executive to revolt against the executive.
Which maybe wouldn't be a bad thing if their persuasion and reasoning didn't involve lying all the time and repeating the same lies over and over until people assume it must be true since they've heard it a dozen times on tv.
Fox is treated different because Fox is different. Other networks and print are often lazy. Fox is not lazy, it's dishonest.
Lying is not a good habit for a news business to engage in. Can we get agreement on that?
#75 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 10:20 PM
An asshole in profile:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c7kr43HG4Q
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/28/milbank-pitney/
#76 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 10:35 PM
Another asshole:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0lUC3EXT70 6:30 in
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/23/jeremy-scahill-slams-chuc_n_266702.html
Lazy, political access dependent, journalists rather talk about what politicians keep in their panty drawers based on what they heard over cocktails than do journalism.
And they are paid big money to corrode the country. That should be our focus on mainstream journalism, not whether they are lazy from a left perspective or lazy from the right, but that they are lazy because they don't care about the truth telling business. They care about ads.
Which is why I get the best news from McClatchy and blogs from people on the edge of the issues, not from cable tv personalities who are lazy or liars or both.
#77 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 10:50 PM
I'm glad you pay lip service to news as a business, but you don't seem to understand that businesses don't exist to impress each other, which seems to be the most common concern of "journalists" these days. This whole piece reeks of smugness and an unsupportable certitude that CJR's opinions aren't opinions, but statements of objective fact. Print news is circling the bowl, and nobody except their colleagues really believes in the objectivity of the broadcast networks' news operations.
I don't know for sure why Fox does so well in the ratings against its fellow cable news channels, but my best guess would be that it serves a market that is being ignored by the others, and it's the only major news organization doing it. The rest of the market is divided among 5 outlets. You can rant about Fox being dishonest all you want, but its viewers don't see it that way. They see the rest of the media as biased and dishonest.
Your snide appraisals of Fox only make you seem either incredibly naive about news being a business enterprise or incredibly arrogant and supercilious toward a large part of your potential customer base.
#78 Posted by AST, CJR on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 11:28 PM
"O'REILLY: Now, are you shocked that a Democratic poll operation shows that Fox News is the most trusted news operation...
STEWART: No.
O'REILLY: In the country?
STEWART: No.
O'REILLY: Forty-nine percent of Americans trust us.
STEWART: No, I'm not shocked at that. Are you shocked that an Internet poll said I was the most trusted newscaster in America?
O'REILLY: Yes, but that was like Blinky did it. This was a big, big, big concern. And somebody told me off the record that you were one of the 49 percent, you believe Fox News is the most trusted news organization.
STEWART: I am. Here's what I believe. Fox News is the most passionate and sells the clearest narrative of any news organization, if that's how — are you still referring to it in that manner?
O'REILLY: Yes, it's a news organization. Right. That's how the poll referred to it.
STEWART: No, I'm sure it did...
O'REILLY: People like Shepard Smith, people — all of our White House people, they report fairly.
STEWART: Here's the brilliance — here's the brilliance of Fox News. What you have been able to do, you and Dr. Ailes, have been able to mainstream conservative talk radio."
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4003531/entire-jon-stewart-interview/?playlist_id=86923
#79 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 11 Mar 2010 at 12:30 AM
There is more than just 'Food Lion' (ABC) in the cases of mainstream outlets doing what the conservative media is condemned for doing. There is the CBS fiasco about Bush and the National Guard, which cost Dan Rather his job. There is the ABC fakery of the danger of SUVs on 'Dateline' back in the day. There is the utterly sleazy New York Times race-baiting in the Duke/lacrosse case. These are just off the top of my head. CNN recently had to apologize to Rush Limbaugh twice - Rush Limbaugh! - for swallowing made-up quotes from him without checking the sources first. Just today ABC had to admit a bit of tape-faking in its coverage of the Toyota-acceleration controversy. These top anything Fox has ever been accused of in faking news, or distorting it for ideological reasons.
It's fine to read Media Matters and other left-wing sites devoted to such studies. But the Media Research Center and Newsbusters also present facts, if the actual tape clips of television news and texts of newspaper stories count as 'facts' of the record. Part of the reason that Fox has succeeded is that the network and its conservative advocates have persuaded consumers that the other media do spike a lot of news that is unfavorable and/or embarrassing to the urban liberals - Van Jones and ACORN and the NEA directives to subsidized artists are examples from just this year. The liberals on this thread seem to run around with their fingers in their ears and shout 'anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot' when such matters are raised, instead of acknowledge that the Left is losing the debate, and understanding the causes for its own failures.
#80 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Thu 11 Mar 2010 at 12:43 PM
"These are just off the top of my head. "
Also, MSNBC recently cropped a photo of a black Obama supporter who brought a rifle to one of the town hall meetings that Obama attended. They then used this photo to make the case that it was a "white racist conservative" who brought the rifle to threaten Obama. This, of course, tops anything that Fox News has ever done. None of that matters, though, as this has nothing to do with the media being biased, and everything to do with the fact that Fox News expouses a different ideology from their own. Nothing more nothing less. The more leftists talk the more they make themselves look like childish fools.
#81 Posted by Michael, CJR on Thu 11 Mar 2010 at 03:44 PM
I might add for Thimbles that James Fallows is a nice man, but is certainly a partisan Democrat, as a former Jimmy Carter speechwriter. Among his other bad bets was his urging that the United States economy become more dirigiste, like Japan - just as the Japanese economy was going into the tank, in which it has essentially stayed for a generation. Nice man, good writer, but not an outside-the-box thinker.
#82 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Thu 11 Mar 2010 at 04:58 PM
Just a quick note,
"Also, MSNBC recently cropped a photo of a black Obama supporter who brought a rifle to one of the town hall meetings that Obama attended. They then used this photo to make the case that it was a "white racist conservative" who brought the rifle to threaten Obama."
I assume you got this off of newsbusters, which is "Brent Bozwell the third" partisan GARBAGE 9/10ths of the time, which is basing it's case off an edited video who's cuts I don't trust. (the white guy :21 seconds in defiantly looks like he's packing, but then newbusters does a cut)
But since the original video is not available, if they used a cropped shot of the black man with the assault rifle it was dishonest and that technique, which has proliferated because of fox, is wrong, plain and simple.
But, to address your other claims, in the newsbusters video, and according to other press at the arizona event, there were about a dozen people packing weapons and there were two men with assault rifles, according to this report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkW116vzkxg
and the black guy with the assault rifle was anything BUT an Obama supporter according to this jackass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfN7woo2xRY
He was one of those "we're up against a tyrannical government who will rob the next generation as long as they can get away with it."
Go search for Ernest Hancock and see the fun you come up with.
So wherever you got the idea that the guy was and Obama supporter, your source was wrong. And whether Contessa was using the assault rifle around his shoulder black man as the "white guy with the pistol strapped to his waist" in her words is debatable because of Newsbusters cuts.
They are worse than fox when it comes to dishonest cuts and whining about trivialities.
#83 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 11 Mar 2010 at 10:02 PM
The NB link
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/08/18/msnbc-no-mention-black-gun-owner-among-racist-protesters
And no, this doesn't top the time fox news edited Obama's explanation of why America won't have European style health care into Obama's declaration "We should have european style health care."
http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001231/
#84 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 11 Mar 2010 at 10:18 PM
More whining from the leftists who think they own the media and get to define it. This kind of delusional partisan crap is exactly why so many Americans are abandoning the NBC, CNN, CBS and ABC. I will never go back to listening to them, for anything. They've blown the trust. You guys might want to donate your Democrat-stained clothing ... it would go along well with Monica's dress. Nothing you produce is credible, because it all starts out with your pre-ordained conclusions.
If you want to just say you disagree with the editorialists, say so. But if you want to "research" the news side by attacking the editorial side, EPIC FAIL.
#85 Posted by ruralcounsel, CJR on Fri 12 Mar 2010 at 12:40 PM
"The problem with [Main stream media and self appointed arbiters of journalism] news is that they lie too much and spread sloppy stories when it suits their narrative. They don't just slant the truth, they quite often make it up. That is what makes them despicable."
There, Thimbles. I fixed that for you.
#86 Posted by ruralcounsel, CJR on Fri 12 Mar 2010 at 12:55 PM
Oh, and Kevin...
"That's because [liberals] and [leftist] wingnuts are ignorant. What don't people like you understand about that?
People like you have no shame and care nothing about facts... it's all a left/right issue with you. If the message is not ideologically driven the way you want, regardless of facts or evidence, you complain until you get your way. Ironically, that's very similar to how the [Obama administration and Democrats] operates in congress. Complaining and [lying] until they get their [way] and just keep doing the same thing."
There, fixed that for you.
When your basic argument is "I'm right, and therefore any disagreement with me is idiotic and non-factual" you've pretty much lost the debate at the beginning. Repeat after me, disagreement is not the same as stupidity, nor ignorance.
#87 Posted by ruralcounsel, CJR on Fri 12 Mar 2010 at 01:16 PM
Liberal journalism needs to get out of its echo-chamber and self-congratulatory smugness. They've become incapable of detecting the bias and lies that they foist on the public...but keep acutely focused on the inadequacies and mistakes of political opposition.
Oh, and Thimbles,...
"Rush Limbaugh, for instance, is allowed to talk about why it's suddenly okay and not unpatriotic to root for a president and a country's failure. He's given that time to change the contours of conversation from worship of the executive to revolt against the executive."
He spoke about the failure of a President's agenda, not the failure of the country. Get a clue; they are not one and the same. Or are you lying and spreading disinformation now?
The Left tried to silence their critics by declaring it was patriotic to oppose Bush and his policies. Suddenly Obama is in and it's not anymore? Why shouldn't EVERYONE talk about how hypocritical that is? Don't pretend to get all patriotic on me only when it's in your interest.
None of the media is to be trusted or believed unquestioningly. But I can tell which one of the bastards is on my side, and which ones aren't.
#88 Posted by ruralcounsel, CJR on Fri 12 Mar 2010 at 01:27 PM
Leftists just can't deal with reality in its natural state.
To them, hoping that a leftist president fails to further a socialist agenda is precisely equivalent to hoping for the "country's failure". Same thing. A period without significant global warming becomes a significant period of global warming. Same thing.
Trying to reason with such silly tripe is frustrating, indeed. Extreme cases of such derangement are unfortunately most effectively countered with pithy and sarcastic exposition of the inevitable absurdities they engender, luring reasoned and otherwise civil opponents off the High Road of rational debate and into the gutters of the Low Road..
#89 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 12 Mar 2010 at 02:11 PM
"If you want to just say you disagree with the editorialists, say so. But if you want to "research" the news side by attacking the editorial side, EPIC FAIL."
First off, claiming it's editorial/opinion does not excuse misrepresentation and lying. There is expressing an opinion based on facts, which is perfectly fine, and there is using "opinion" to catapult a fiction, which is not okay at all.
Claiming the Community Reinvestment Act created the financial meltdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh8DRX6v72U
is not an opinion. It is a fiction. A provable lie. Opinion does not give one sanction to spread provable lies, unless you believe MSNBC is perfectly justified in using footage of an armed black man to segue way into an opinion on white racism. If you defend Fox news practices, you defend MSNBC practices when they cut the other way. Either condemn the practice or don't, but don't whine about the practice on MSNBC and then defend it it on FOX.
The label "bad journalism" should be independent of its political slant.
Democracy now is heavily slanted, but it also has a good balance of guests and it tries to tell the truth.
http://www.democracynow.org/
And they correct mistakes when they're made. They don't repeat them until the audience becomes convinced that there was no mistake to begin with.
It's okay to slant, it's not okay to invent. If fox news was a hard leftist organization with the same quality standards they currently have, I'd still not watch it because l'd know I can't trust it. Lying to support an agenda is wrong, even when you agree with the agenda.
Can we agree on that?
#90 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 12 Mar 2010 at 11:01 PM
"He spoke about the failure of a President's agenda, not the failure of the country. Get a clue; they are not one and the same. Or are you lying and spreading disinformation now?"
They were rooting for the the president to fail.
Didn't get the Olympics? HAH! You fail! Dow Jones falls? HAH! President FAILURE! Unemployment surges to 10%. YES! Look at Mr. Fail, surfing on his Failboard!
The worse the country does, the more ways conservatives find to celebrate, never mind the fact that the circumstances of failure were created by 10 years of previous failures AND attempts by Obama to go beyond the political divide
by crafting and self negotiated, weak, bills to appeal to conservatives.
Never mind the fact that they are rooting against the president during a time of two wars which the previous Administration was too incompetent to finish.
They are going to root for failure, and do everything in their power to impede/filibuster success - even if it means wrecking policy goals they previously supported - so that when the country fails, it can be blamed on the guy "in charge" for a year and a bit. It is the country's failure that the deficit is huge and the economy is broken and the two ongoing wars are unfunded and the revenue from taxes was cut by trillions from when Bill Clinton was in office, and the Obama Admininstration can't get their government staffed a year later because the republicans - like Honduras trip taking for the purpose of undermining American foreign policy, Jim DeMint - are holding up the confirmation process. But Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are salivating over the country's failures because they get to feed it to their public as a democrat's failures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S781uo9C4P8 1:18 in
Fox "NEWS": "You started your answer by blaming the previous administration. It is a line that we've heard repeatedly now from Democrats since president Obama took the office 3rd week in January. Mr. Republican Guy, does that argument get old?"
I'm sure Republican Guy had to think on his toes to answer that one.
So yeah, they want to pin it on the new guy, but can't be done without a HEALTHY DOSE of lies.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-12/the-gops-misplaced-rage/full/
"The Left tried to silence their critics by declaring it was patriotic to oppose Bush and his policies. Suddenly Obama is in and it's not anymore? Why shouldn't EVERYONE talk about how hypocritical that is? Don't pretend to get all patriotic on me only when it's in your interest."
Oh, jesus christ, and how has that worked out for us? Have you guys hesitated at all from appeals to patriotism and the common good?
Not a goddamn whit.
The left isn't silencing anyone on appeals to patriotism, mainly because all they've been doing is asking for some consistency.
Remember, Moveon was censured and denounced BY DEMOCRATS for its protest of a president during a time of war.
Left and liberal had to watch their mouths or get pulled of the public air.
We're asking for some civility, not silence, and I for one am done asking.
You have no case, NONE, to accuse Obama of "furthering a socialist agenda" and you're a lying, unpatriotic, ass if you spread such lies.
Stop being an ass.
#91 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 13 Mar 2010 at 02:43 AM
Who's trying to corrupt the children in schools? Obama you claim?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html
First it's the radio, then it's the news, then it's the schools, and I imagine you'll have to find a way "balance" the internet one day.
For a group of supposed objective, individualist, Americans, your approach to information is very revisionist, collectivist, Chinese.
Enjoy your propaganda diet brought to you by the same moral conservatives who bring you the Family Guy on their entertainment channel.
Man, does the Murdoch media empire have a good scam going or what?
#92 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sat 13 Mar 2010 at 04:24 AM
Kent Conrad is a bit of a dim bulb.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/09/kent_conrad_hearts_the_french.html
But he's got nothing on the political journalist class in America. On the subject of reconciliation, Jonathan Chait:
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/jesus-christ-mike-allen-reconciliation-not-complicated
"What sentient being who's following this closely could not understand it by now? I give you Politico's Mike Allen, writing Saturday:
'When Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) made this confusing argument last week on “Face the Nation,” we weren’t sure he was being deliberately disingenuous. It was, in fact, spin. Now, he’s made the same case in a similarly obtuse WashPost op-ed, “Reconciliation is not an option for health-care reform.” Don’t misread it: It’s an Alice-in-Wonderland argument FOR the use of reconciliation as part of the recipe for getting comprehensive health reform to the president’s desk'
Confusing? Obtuse? Does Conrad need to stop by Politico's offices with a picture book and some finger puppets? I understand perfectly well how intelligent people who don't follow this debate closely might not catch on to the distinction. But this is what Mike Allen does all day -- and, as I understand it, much of the night and the wee hours of the morning as well. How can anybody still not understand this? "
Lazy, stupid, traffickers of gossip. Why is American democracy such a dumping ground for corruption and stupidity? There are many reasons, but it starts with a public educated by fools.
The public deserves better.
#93 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 14 Mar 2010 at 04:40 AM
Oh hai Howard! How's it hangin'?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/11/AR2010031102523_pf.html
"Through clever use of the Fox News Channel and its cadre of raucous commentators, Ailes has overturned standards of fairness and objectivity that have guided American print and broadcast journalists since World War II. Yet, many members of my profession seem to stand by in silence as Ailes tears up the rulebook that served this country well as we covered the major stories of the past three generations, from the civil rights revolution to Watergate to the Wall Street scandals. This is not a liberal-versus-conservative issue. It is a matter of Fox turning reality on its head with, among other tactics, its endless repetition of its uber-lie: "The American people do not want health-care reform."
Fox repeats this as gospel. But as a matter of historical context, usually in short supply on Fox News, this assertion ranks somewhere between debatable and untrue...
My great fear, however, is that some journalists of my generation who once prided themselves on blowing whistles and afflicting the comfortable have also been intimidated by Fox's financial power and expanding audience, as well as Ailes's proven willingness to dismantle the reputation of anyone who crosses him. (Remember his ridiculing of one early anchor, Paula Zahn, as inferior to a "dead raccoon" in ratings potential when she dared defect to CNN?) It's as if we have surrendered the sword of verifiable reportage and bought the idea that only "elites" are interested in information free of partisan poppycock.
Why has our profession, through its general silence -- or only spasmodic protest -- helped Fox legitimize a style of journalism that is dishonest in its intellectual process, untrustworthy in its conclusions and biased in its gestalt? ...
For the first time since the yellow journalism of a century ago, the United States has a major news organization devoted to the promotion of one political party. And let no one be misled by occasional spurts of criticism of the GOP on Fox. In a bygone era of fact-based commentary typified, left to right, by my late colleagues Scotty Reston and Bill Safire, these deceptions would have been given their proper label: disinformation.
Under the pretense of correcting a Democratic bias in news reporting, Fox has accomplished something that seemed impossible before Ailes imported to the news studio the tricks he learned in Richard Nixon's campaign think tank: He and his video ferrets have intimidated center-right and center-left journalists into suppressing conclusions -- whether on health-care reform or other issues -- they once would have stated as demonstrably proven by their reporting. I try not to believe that this kid-gloves handling amounts to self-censorship, but it's hard to ignore the evidence. News Corp., with 64,000 employees worldwide, receives the tender treatment accorded a future employer...
This year, Freud, a public relations executive in London and Murdoch's son-in-law, condemned Ailes in an interview with the New York Times, saying he was "ashamed and sickened by Roger Ailes's horrendous and sustained disregard" of proper journalistic standards. Meanwhile, Gabriel Sherman, writing in New York magazine, suggests that Freud and other Murdoch relatives think Ailes has outlived his usefulness -- despite the fact that Fox, with its $700 million annual profit, finances News Corp.'s ability to keep its troubled newspapers and their skeleton staffs on life support. I know some observers of journalistic economics who believe that such insider comments mean Rupert already has Roger on the skids.
It is true that any executive's tenure in the House of Murdoch is situational. But grieve not for Roger Ailes. His new contract signals that when the w
#94 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Tue 16 Mar 2010 at 01:09 PM
Mark Richard: "It's fine to read Media Matters and other left-wing sites devoted to such studies. But the Media Research Center and Newsbusters also present facts, if the actual tape clips of television news and texts of newspaper stories count as 'facts' of the record. Part of the reason that Fox has succeeded is that the network and its conservative advocates have persuaded consumers that the other media do spike a lot of news that is unfavorable and/or embarrassing to the urban liberals - Van Jones and ACORN and the NEA directives to subsidized artists are examples from just this year."
You know why I don't read Newsbusters?
This kind of garbage is taken serious there:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/anthony-kang/2010/03/15/60-minutes-silent-government-role-financial-crisis
"Lewis told Kroft that the financial crisis was "a story of mass delusion."
"How can they not look at the numbers?" Kroft asked. "How can Wall Street be selling all these, buying all of these mortgages and repackaging them and not realizing they are not very good mortgages?"
It's a fair question. But so are these: "Where did all these bad mortgages originate? Why were loans being made to high-risk credits in the first place?"
Kroft didn't ask them because their answers wouldn't have fit the narrative. Just like his like-minded colleagues in the media, Kroft didn't mention the role of the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act in forcing banks to loan to high-risk credits - not to mention the central role of "government-sponsored enterprises" such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
Unbelievable. They are lying or they are ignorant. It's not exactly unknown that the sub-prime securities had nothing to do with GSE's (they handled PRIME loans) until 2007ish when the Bush Administration let them dive into it as everyone else started pulling out.
This is known information.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/10/12/53802/private-sector-loans-not-fannie.html
There is no excuse for this BS, never mind the hyped bs over Van Jones, the video editing which we discussed in the retracto alpaca thread, nor the conservative whining which took place over the NEA when there was silence over government VNS's being run as news segments and pentagon contractors and other people with conflicts of interest were being directly briefed by the pentagon and then sent to the news agencies as "independent consultants".
The problem with the right wing media is that it is not reflective of reality. It magnifies the small, often non-existent, and minimizes the huge. It is a distortion of reality, not a representation of it.
And if you go there for information, you are going there to be lied to, whether you know it or not.
And maybe that is true of most media, but it is especially true of Fox and right wing journalism culture.
#95 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 18 Mar 2010 at 01:43 AM
Thimbles wrote: The problem with the right wing media is that it is not reflective of reality. It magnifies the small, often non-existent, and minimizes the huge. It is a distortion of reality, not a representation of it.
padikiller notes: What is "small" to Thimbles, is "huge" to others.
It is true that the "right-wing" media (you notice you never see "left-wing media" in quotes) does indeed focus on the stories many liberals deem to be "small".
And the ratings make it clear that the majority of consumers disagree with Thimble's assessment.
John Edwards knocking up his Baby Mama and paying her hush money with campaign funds was not a "small" story.
ACORN getting defunded by overwhlemingly bipartisan emergency votes in both houses of Congress was not a "small" story.
Letting a communist, 9/11 troofer "czar" run amok in thie White House was not a "small" story.
Nonetheless, the only place to learn of these stories was in the alternative media - the conservative blogosphere and talk radio.
#96 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 18 Mar 2010 at 08:53 AM
The Van Jones "troofer" story was weak, based on a dishonest petition on "rense,org" that not even "Little Green Footballs", the guys who busted the Dan Rather memos based on typeface, could get behind.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34594_Truther_Document_Signatories_Say_They_Were_Misled
John Edwards was a story, but hardly important considering he's not a candidate, he holds no office, and his being a douchebag is such a public affair that he's going to be a pariah for the rest of his career.
Now can we talk about John Ensign, David Vitter, Michael Duvall, etc...etc..? You really want to go there especially after how Fox News treated the Ensign story?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0609/Hubby_of_Ensign_mistress_tried_to_tip_FOX.html
Never mind. The guy with the burned career needs more focus.
Acorn was a set up in which the video was likely tampered with and the parties responsible for the videos have been caught lying. Because of the witch hunt an illegal bill of attainder was crafted out of democratic cowardice and republican belligerence.
Meanwhile John Ensign and David Vitter support the right for military contractors, specifically KBR, to rape their employees and escape punishment due to the terms of their contracts.
These contractors who have been raping american taxpayers of the billions that Breitbart falsely accuses Acorn of taking.
Small is big. Big is small. Right wing media at work, and the level of actual information known by a fox viewer makes it clear.
People who watch Fox News watch it to be disinformed. That is their right, but can a democracy function when a significant portion of the population is disinformed/uninformed?
Or does it turn into a batshit crazy circus where people accuse a soft touch soft conservative into a maoist liberal nazi because of the D on his party lapel?
You tell me.
#97 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 18 Mar 2010 at 11:43 PM
Sorry, but John Edwards is a story. This is the man whom the Democratic Party came close to putting over as Vice President, thus placing him the fabled heartbeat away. If Sarah Palin is fit for obsessive scrutiny, so it Edwards.
The scrutiny Palin received was excused by the MSM on the grounds that part of its job was to 'vet' candidates. But this vetting seemed to fail when it came to Edwards, a man whose bottomless hypocrisy and narcissism was obvious to anyone not a Democratic true believer by 2004. If John Kerry has gotten a single question about his selection of Edwards as his running mate in 2004, I haven't heard it. The selection of Palin is something that has been interpreted as a metaphor for the GOP by ordinary pundits. But the Democratic weakness for gazillionaires intoning left-wing slogans has not been made a metaphor for the party as a whole. When a right-winger errs, he or she is made a symbol for the GOP as a whole, but when a left-winger does the same things, the problems is his or hers alone.
#98 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Fri 19 Mar 2010 at 12:22 PM
"If Sarah Palin is fit for obsessive scrutiny, so it Edwards."
Wow. We agree on this. IF Sarah Palin is fit for obsessive coverage/scrutiny then so is Edwards.
But the truth is neither of them are important. Failed politicians are as newsworthy as failed sitcom stars. Until they are making actual attempts at a comeback, likely through appearances on "Dr, Drew's Political Rehab", I don't want to hear from them. I want to hear about people who do have office and do have influence over power.
I mean if you really want to talk about the dirty laundry of failed politicians and what they did to their wives when they were in their death beds, I suppose we could talk about Newt Gingrich or John McCain, but you see, I don't care. I'm not going to judge conservatives on what they were unaware of when they supported Gingrich and McCain and I'm not going to judge the media for not ogling the past scandals long after the actors have lost their relevance. I'm going to judge them on what they did after they were made aware.
And what conservatives did for David Vitter after being busted as a hypocritical, diaper wearing, john was give him an ovation. And he's still in office! And the Ensign stuff FOX sat on, yeeouch that's getting ugly! And he's still in office!
The only reason Edwards's stupidity is relevant is because his past scandal distracts from conservative present ones.
Other than that, there is no reason to keep rehashing his trailer park drama. There is 0 news value in it.
#99 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 19 Mar 2010 at 02:37 PM
In reference to this from above:
"Fox has accomplished something that seemed impossible before Ailes imported to the news studio the tricks he learned in Richard Nixon's campaign think tank: He and his video ferrets have intimidated center-right and center-left journalists into suppressing conclusions -- whether on health-care reform or other issues -- they once would have stated as demonstrably proven by their reporting. I try not to believe that this kid-gloves handling amounts to self-censorship, but it's hard to ignore the evidence. News Corp., with 64,000 employees worldwide, receives the tender treatment accorded a future employer."
There was an interesting article on John Cole's blog:
http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/03/25/careerist-sociopaths/
"I’ve been taking in a lot of right-wing media the last few days because I was curious to see how the wingers would defend the death threats and so on that some on the right have been making against Democratic Congressmen. So I had Laura Ingraham on the radio this morning as I drove to work.
She was ranting and raving about how the threats weren’t really happening and if they did happen, they didn’t come from the right, and if they were happening and they did come from the right, then they weren’t as bad as ACORN or the guy who threw the shoe at George W. Bush. She had a guest named Jake, who seemed a little more reasonable than her but who didn’t dispute anything she said and said things like “Well, I’m sure you’ve received threats too.”
When Ingraham suggested that Hoyer scheduled the news conference to discuss the threats in order to score political points, she asked Jake what he thought, and he said “I only report the facts, but I do have an opinion”, suggesting he agreed with Ingram but couldn’t say so explicitly (you probably have to listen to the tape to see what I mean about this).
Turns out it was Jake Tapper.
I doubt Tapper is that much of a right-winger, but he knows which side his bread is buttered on. He knows that national tv news is a dying medium and that he may have to jump on the Murdoch crazy train at some point in order to pay the bills. In short, he’s a careerist sociopath, ready to dance on the graves of Congressmen if it means he can keep a Fox gig lined up down the road.
Update. One thing in particular that Ingraham said, and which Tapper didn’t dispute was (I’m paraphrasing) “if you defy the will of the people, you have to expect that a few weird malcontents will come after you.”
Update update. I will try to post audio of this time so you can make up your own mind about the segment."
#100 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 25 Mar 2010 at 04:10 PM
"When a right-winger errs, he or she is made a symbol for the GOP as a whole, but when a left-winger does the same things, the problems is his or hers alone. "
Wait a second... how does John Edwards "do the same things" as Sarah Palin?
#101 Posted by Hardrada, CJR on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 12:05 AM
Hardrada - this is a qualitative judgment, but I would refer you to the 'What did you know and when did you know it?' breathlessness that accompanied the Mark Foley scandal, vs. the pass Democratic leaders have gotten on their handling of Eric Massa. The framing device on Foley was that he was a symbol of the 'culture of corruption' of the GOP Congress. Fair enough. But Massa didn't exactly come out of a vaccuum.
Similarly, Rep. Charlie Rangel is not framed as a symbol of Democratic Party 'corruption' the way Bob Ney was. The technique was for liberal reporters to compile all the scandals of the GOP Congress in 2006-2008 and tie them together as one story - whereas, except for some local acknowledgement that the Rangel and Paterson scandals in NY are a problem for the 'Harlem' Democratic establishment, there is no comprehensive treatment of various Democratic scandals used to paint an overall picture of a Congress that is no more but also no less crooked under the Democrats than it was under the Republicans.
#102 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 12:22 PM
So your point is that Congress is just as corrupt under the Democrats as it was under Republicans... sure, I'll concede that, but I don't see how that relates to Sarah Palin.
Palin faced a lot of scrutiny because we haven't seen such a high profile politician display that sort of stupidity since Dan Quayle. She's in a category by herself.
Speaking of double standards, John Edwards cheats on his wife and that makes him a symbol of a "culture of corruption," but John McCain cheats on his wife and he's an American hero.
#103 Posted by Hardrada, CJR on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 01:52 PM
We can argue till the cows come home...is Fox News more or less biased than MSNBC? What is "biased?" Who defines it? Was there ever any "objective" news --- even in the day of Cronkite?
What about prior to television? Radio News preceded t.v. news, and presumably print news and newspapers preceded radio, and/but print has been there all along..
My dad got his first job as a reporter for the B.B.C. by showing up at some office and saying he "could write." They gave him a test: a "beat." He spent the day writing a few stories after walking the "beat." He'd studied World History, Literature, Math, Latin and Science ( biology?) at a Jesuit College---but no "journalism."
Whatever he wrote for his "beat/test"-- it had to be banal -- probably like a police blotter: so many people did this or that, ran a stop sign, filched a loaf of bread. Or, the Mayor was up for re-election, etc... He got the job that same evening.
The point is, they needed people who could think and write, reporters-- and put a story together with the fewest words possible-- no editorializing. The best "reporter" submitted the "who, what, where and when" story in a paragraph or two. That was it. You got your paycheck.
Political reporting was supposed to follow the same formula: who, what, where and when. Facts were reported and interviews were given where "quotes" about supposed or alleged facts, would often be solicited by the reporter and added to the story. But, a spoken and unspoken rule of "reportage" was always stick to the facts, the "who, what, where and when," of the story, and you were doing your job.
Elsewhere in the newspapers, there was an editorial page. Sometimes the editorial page bespoke the views of the newspaper's owner-- and then, maybe, a writer or two who disagreed. Who wrote the editorial and where she/he came from, was never supposed to be difficult for the reader to ascertain --the byline: James McDubitable, "Chair of the Cows Will Come Home Committee," etc., was a clearly stated byline. You knew who J. M. was, where he came from, where he stood on issue, why he was writing, etc..
-- Another dictum of that day was: "follow the source"..."know the source."
By way of the above, you could at least trace and track information to its credible (or not) end.
Isn't this what we're missing in our "era," with so many "news" stations --- and so much slippage between "reporting" and "editorializing"..? Heck, I don't want to "bash" Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly.. But, I don't want to have to pull apart the equal parts rhetoric, bias, infotainment and soundbite that their "information" given to me as a viewer of "Fox News," amounts to. And, I consider myself an educated and wary viewer.
What about the many viewers who are simply tuning in late after work, who wouldn't suspect that the "news" program they're viewing is not exactly "news?" Or, to be even more realistic, what about the many millions of viewers who are tuning in, late, after work, tired, and not about to consider whether or how they should be discriminating between news, infotainment, editorial and entertainment, as they simply channel surf and light on a "news" program..?
The "Hearsts" of another day have been supplanted with the "Murdochs" and "Ailes's" of our day, I guess. Better or worse or just "hmmmmm.." Read more if you dare at www.neonewspub.com.... thanks!
#104 Posted by barbaramolloy, CJR on Mon 29 Mar 2010 at 04:04 AM
We can argue till the cows come home...is Fox News more or less biased than MSNBC? What is "biased?" Who defines it? Was there ever any "objective" news --- even in the day of Cronkite?
What about prior to television? Radio News preceded t.v. news, and presumably print news and newspapers preceded radio, and/but print has been there all along..
My dad got his first job as a reporter for the B.B.C. by showing up at some office and saying he "could write." They gave him a test: a "beat." He spent the day writing a few stories after walking the "beat." He'd studied World History, Literature, Math, Latin and Science ( biology?) at a Jesuit College---but no "journalism."
Whatever he wrote for his "beat/test"-- it had to be banal -- probably like a police blotter: so many people did this or that, ran a stop sign, filched a loaf of bread. Or, the Mayor was up for re-election, etc... He got the job that same evening.
The point is, they needed people who could think and write, reporters-- and put a story together with the fewest words possible-- no editorializing. The best "reporter" submitted the "who, what, where and when" story in a paragraph or two. That was it. You got your paycheck.
Political reporting was supposed to follow the same formula: who, what, where and when. Facts were reported and interviews were given where "quotes" about supposed or alleged facts, would often be solicited by the reporter and added to the story. But, a spoken and unspoken rule of "reportage" was always stick to the facts, the "who, what, where and when," of the story, and you were doing your job.
Elsewhere in the newspapers, there was an editorial page. Sometimes the editorial page bespoke the views of the newspaper's owner-- and then, maybe, a writer or two who disagreed. Who wrote the editorial and where she/he came from, was never supposed to be difficult for the reader to ascertain --the byline: James McDubitable, "Chair of the Cows Will Come Home Committee," etc., was a clearly stated byline. You knew who J. M. was, where he came from, where he stood on issue, why he was writing, etc..
-- Another dictum of that day was: "follow the source"..."know the source."
By way of the above, you could at least trace and track information to its credible (or not) end.
Isn't this what we're missing in our "era," with so many "news" stations --- and so much slippage between "reporting" and "editorializing"..? Heck, I don't want to "bash" Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly.. But, I don't want to have to pull apart the equal parts rhetoric, bias, infotainment and soundbite that their "information" given to me as a viewer of "Fox News," amounts to. And, I consider myself an educated and wary viewer.
What about the many viewers who are simply tuning in late after work, who wouldn't suspect that the "news" program they're viewing is not exactly "news?" Or, to be even more realistic, what about the many millions of viewers who are tuning in, late, after work, tired, and not about to consider whether or how they should be discriminating between news, infotainment, editorial and entertainment, as they simply channel surf and light on a "news" program..?
The "Hearsts" of another day have been supplanted with the "Murdochs" and "Ailes's" of our day, I guess. Better or worse or just "hmmmmm.." Read more if you dare at www.neonewspub.com.... thanks!
#105 Posted by barbaramolloy, CJR on Mon 29 Mar 2010 at 04:05 AM
"So your point is that Congress is just as corrupt under the Democrats as it was under Republicans... sure, I'll concede that"
I wouldn't concede that, not AT ALL. Yes the dems are corrupt and make deals and stiff the working class that voted for them for the sake of compromise and campaign money.
But republicans over the last eight long years - and the later ones during Reagan Bush - and the ones under Nixon have each set new bars of high corruption and sleaze.
And Congress was probably the most benign of actors in each of those situations since the executive has a huge amount of power - therefore various interests spend huge amounts of capital influencing elections - and the senate is a co-equal branch - which contains equal representatives from states with different populations, which results in various interests spending more than a bit of capital influencing the elections of less populated states.
Everything the republicans are crying about now was done tenfold under Cheney, as the secret minutes of his energy policy meets would likely reveal. There is no comparison between corruption under democrats and republicans because the democrats aren't pure enough politically to engage in the doublespeak hypocrisy which is the lining of every republican politician's breath. When it comes to corruption, the democrats are corrupt. They do have a base which forces them to do lip service, at the very least, towards serving the public good. When it comes to corruption, Republicans are purists. Look at their record (from the rhetoric of deficit reduction which became surplus reduction once they gamed the supreme court vote to the rhetoric of socialist death panels over a plan conservative enough to come out of the heritage foundation
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/david-frum-aei-heritage-and-health-care/
) and argue I'm wrong.
Matt says it best:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13891421/the_low_post_tasting_their_own_medicine
"I'm no big fan of the Democratic party. I think they pussyfoot about key issues like the war and they whore for their campaign donors almost as much as the Republicans. And their ethics and procedural reform to date isn't something to write home about. Even Barney Frank conceded on the House floor: "[Diaz-Balart] is right about one thing. He chides us for setting the bar too low. We only promised to do better than they did, and we met that standard with ease. But we should do better."
But Jesus, at least they have some shame. The Republicans ran Congress like a basement cock-fighting ring for more than a decade, and two months or so after they're out of power, they're already transformed into a bunch of squawking dissidents more pretentious than Rage Against the Machine."
#106 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 29 Mar 2010 at 12:52 PM
Hardrada unintentionally provides an example of what critics of the MSM are talking about. The NY Times was widely condemned, even by some liberals, for its front-pager alleging an affair by McCain. The story was thinly sourced, denied by both parties, and seems to have depended on one source, a disgruntled aide who admitted that no one could be sure.
By instructive contrast, the Edwards story was studiously ingnored by the mainstream media until it had to have it shoved in their faces by The National Inquirer. Edwards' endless capacity for self-delusion was even known to John Kerry in 2004, according to Robert Shrum, who (in 2007) cited a striking example of Edwards' manipulative lying. Kerry nominated Edwards to be a heartbeat away from the presidency anyway. Sorry, but that's quite beyond anything McCain was even accused of. So it goes.
#107 Posted by Mark Richard, CJR on Mon 5 Apr 2010 at 10:12 AM
Mark Mark Mark.. Do you really want to go there? I mean it's one thing to be a narcissistic liar with a fake persona that people all know about, that would be about 80% of Washington who are mainly comprised of a privileged class. You wouldn't have candidates if being a self deluded manipulative liar barred you from politics.
It's another thing to be an adulterer who conceives children during a campaign and tries to pass the scandal off on his staff. We knew about that in 2008, not in 2004. You can't blame people who made decisions in 2004 without taking into account acts that occurred 4 years after. Kerry failed as a psychic. And that's a scandal because ???
Now if I'm correct in how I read Harada, he wasn't talking about that little blow up that occurred with his SECOND wife. What really happened there is between McCain and the SECOND Mrs. McCain is between them (though I would not put the "in bed with a lobbyist" stuff past McCain, either figuratively or literally).
What he was talking about was McCain's FIRST wife, who was permanently injured in a car accident and dumped for a rich heiress. All factual. You can read all about it... in the British press.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
But we weren't talking about adultery on a wife's deathbed in 2004 or 1980. We were talking about a person who lied and had self delusions. Do you think people didn't know Bush and Cheney suffered from those flaws?
What the press showed in their Bush coverage from 1999 to 2006 was that it didn't matter if you were a privileged ignorant liar, what mattered was that you were likable at it. Kerry picked Edwards because people thought, in 2004, that he was likable. The press didn't think that about Kerry and he felt he needed a clean face to balance this weakness. Kerry didn't predict Edwards would become a self destructive loser 4 years later. Sue him.
I find it interesting that CNN has hired redstate bomb thrower, Erick Erickson. I find it amazing that a guy who makes jokes - about feminazis having brain damage because they can't get a date because they're too ugly - is given tv time on a news network.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/03/cnn_and_right
It goes to show, if you're on the right you can be a blustering asshole in public and no one bats an eye. You can be Pat Buchanan writing about how mean old Europe provoked a war with Hitler, a pacifist at heart, and no one gives a damn. You can be G. Gordon Liddy, a radio personality who told their listeners to shoot government officers in the head because they wear Kevlar vests, never mind Watergate, and you will still be invited to comment on Fox News. You can be Erick Erickson, from a radical website that exists to push the boundaries of conservative politics, and you can tweet about a supreme court justice being a goat f*cking child molester and CNN will still give you a job.
Where on tv do you find voices as radical on the left as those calling for understanding when it comes to Hitler, giving advice on shooting ATF officers, and calling a person a goat f*cker who molests **kids on the right?
**that at least would have been punny. Erick is not only a bomb throwing asshole, but his bombs are blunt and dudly.
#108 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 5 Apr 2010 at 01:29 PM
Please, give me a break. Anything that Fox reports is going to be damned by the liberal press. They are in the pockets of the Democratic Party! Thank God for a network which is not intimidated by these socialist bullies who strong arm their opinions on the rest of the free world. You guys better wake up and pay attention to what's happening in this country. Day by day our free enterprise system is being dismantled and the government is taking over every section of our economy! You're going to WISH that some of these "capatilists pigs" were in office to steady the course of this insanity they call govenrment. What we have here is a Marxist Dictatorship!!!!
#109 Posted by Charlie Tipton, CJR on Tue 6 Apr 2010 at 09:30 AM
The truth has a liberal bias - deal with it you rightie ideologues whining about how one sided this article is. It makes plenty of criticism of MSNBC, not for its content but its programming. While I side with MSNBC's commentary it's programming is low buddget. They rerun shows a lot, they show investigative report shows recycled from DateLine on weekends. They have a budget and it shows. But the news is separate from the commentary, and in the case of Maddow the commentary is throouogh and accurate. And like the writer noted they have Scarborough and I might add Pat Buchanan.
Fox in contrast caters to the willingly clueless that are still foolish enough or selfish and evil enough to call themselves Republicans. David Frum put it best when he said that Fox does not work for the GOP but the inverse is true. The liberals they do have on are weak at debate to where Ailes' gets his agenda through. The news is biased - they tune out what thjey don't want you to hear. The best example of this was during the GOP house retreat where Obama was invited to respond to republican Criticism. It was televised live on MSNBC, CNN, and FOX, yet the latter frequently cut away and about halfway through stop broadcasting it altogether. Fox knew Obama was calling the bluff of the GOP and FOX didn't want to diminish the value of their party.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#35153362
#110 Posted by timmmahhhh, CJR on Fri 16 Apr 2010 at 01:49 AM
"Now if I'm correct in how I read Harada, he wasn't talking about that little blow up that occurred with his SECOND wife. What really happened there is between McCain and the SECOND Mrs. McCain is between them (though I would not put the "in bed with a lobbyist" stuff past McCain, either figuratively or literally).
What he was talking about was McCain's FIRST wife, who was permanently injured in a car accident and dumped for a rich heiress. All factual. "
Thank you Thimbles. I wasn't talking about Vicki Iseman... that story's neither here nor there.
#111 Posted by Hardrada, CJR on Fri 16 Apr 2010 at 06:53 AM
Ok, So after reading this article, I am frustrated with Terry McDermott for his 1) title of the article and 2) how he tried to present the information at hand.
I am a conservative, yes Fox news has more of a conservative spin on it. BUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH ONE NEWS CHANNEL BEING A CONSERVATIVE CHANNEL COMPARED TO THE STUPID, MANIPULATING, DUMB, IDIOTIC (catch my drift) DEMOCRATIC NEWS STATIONS WHO CAN'T HELP BUT PRAISE OBAMA'S STUPID MISTAKES!!!!!!!!!!! I mean seriously, come on! We don't all have to agree and it is OK if we have ONE out of 5 news channels that has a REPUBLICAN SPIN ON IT! What is so wrong with that? huh? that we should agree and bow down and say "oh yeah democrats are soooo right all the time why don't we listen to them even more, especially when THEY ARE LEADING THIS COUNTRY INTO THE DEPTHS OF ULTIMATE DESPAIR AND DESTRUCTION YOU CAN'T SEE THAT CUZ YOU ARE SO BLIND IN YOUR PRAISES TO COVER UP YOUR PRESIDENT'S STUPID MISHAPS AND DOINGS!" you know, some people like to hear it straight and others like to beat around the bush. CNN IS DEFINITELY a more democratic station even if they have more people to cover the news. Oh and how correct have they been? remember the coast guard? when the coast guard was running procedure drills, CNN was FIRST to announce that the coast guard was in a battle and were firing upon ships! HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE?! CHECK YOUR SOURCES AND REPORTING! Look I'm all for unbiased journalism but face it, in this world it isn't going to happen very often and for those of you who can't handle the truth, then don't watch FOX but let those of us who do care for our country, who do want to know the complete truth behind our government, really Fox is the one who has shed light on the President and his Czars. It can be editorialized but hearing the truth of the matter is the most important part and if we are going to skip around the bush singing "hi-ho- cherio" then we won't see how the President is working to destroy America...oh yeah go ahead haters of conservatives, laugh all you want at this! But I hope you love what you are getting remember you voted for the guy, you should reap his failures along with him, while you have your heads stuck in the sand, and covering his tracks. TERRY: dumb as a fox, how about we go dumb as a jackass!
#112 Posted by lets be realistic, CJR on Wed 2 Jun 2010 at 09:02 PM
Totally agree with "Lets be realistic" ... Dumb is as dumb does ... Terry McDermott you are a jackass ... and you know it. You belong to a party of jackasses that put out jackass policies. Here is a clue ... The logo should have been a give away ... for you.
#113 Posted by McDermott is a Joke ... , CJR on Thu 9 Dec 2010 at 09:37 AM
as long as you guys keep saying 'left' and 'right' you are locked by language and will never get anywhere. stuck in a box. XO
#114 Posted by canadian, CJR on Thu 3 Mar 2011 at 06:59 PM