The Washington Post does a good job highlighting a detail that usually gets glossed over in coverage of the unemployment crisis: those who’ve been without work for 99 weeks or more simply aren’t going to get any more unemployment insurance.
It’s a fact that’s easy to lose sight of in all the he-said, she-said coverage of Congress and its failure to extend unemployment benefits. Even this long AP analysis, “How 2 million lost jobless benefits,”—about the erratic way that unemployment insurance has been extended, and then lapsed—doesn’t deal with the 99ers.
The ins and outs of the unemployment system are a tiny bit tricky; the total number of weeks that someone can collect benefits depends on the unemployment rate in their state and state laws where they worked. (The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has a good primer here.)
As the Post explains, “Since the recession began in December 2007, lawmakers have passed several extensions that stretched the normal 26-week limit for unemployment benefits to as long as 99 weeks in the hardest-hit states.”
But when members of Congress talk about extending unemployment benefits, they’re talking about keeping those extensions in place, not about allowing anyone to collect more than 99 weeks in state and federal benefits.
The Huffington Post’s Arthur Delaney made this point well back in May, but it certainly bears repeating now:
This bill isn’t for the ‘99ers’ and there’s no proposal on deck to give them additional weeks of benefits.
In usual times, those who have been unemployed that long make up a small fraction of the unemployment picture. But these aren’t usual times, and the 99ers have become a big part of the story, as this Post graph shows:

Yup, you’re seeing that right. A whopping 1.4 million people who have been unemployed for at least 99 weeks, or 9.2% of all unemployed. As the story explains:
The 99ers are glaring examples of the nation’s most serious bout of long-term joblessness since the Great Depression. Nearly 46 percent of the country’s 14.6 million unemployed people have been out of work for more than six months, and forecasters project that the situation will not improve anytime soon. Currently, the Labor Department says there are nearly five unemployed people for every job opening.
The Post spoke with a couple of 99ers, including a former construction worker who also spent time working on oil rigs on the California coast and in the Gulf of Mexico. “He also was a bounty hunter,” the paper tells its readers. Oh really? Does that come with health insurance?
In any case, that was then. Now:
Frazee, 50, has applied for work at more places than he can remember since he lost his construction job two years ago. He has tried car dealerships, Kmart, Home Depot and the funky shops on the boardwalk in Seaside Heights, near Toms River. He looked into becoming a commercial crabber, working in title insurance and as a bail bondsman. But no dice.
While searching for work, he lived on $585 a week in unemployment payments. But the checks were cut off in May when he reached 99 weeks. Now Frazee, who is married and has a 5-year-old daughter, is in a financial free fall with no safety net.
“My life has been total stress. I sleep maybe four hours a night, worrying about money,” he said. “I understood the president and Congress had to stabilize the banks, get Wall Street going. I figured something would be done for middle-class Americans, that they couldn’t abandon us. But I was wrong.”

Our family of three are living on my disability. I cannot even get Medicaid even though I am disabled! My husband has worked in the printing industry for 42 yrs. He was let go 2 weeks before his 60th birthday (due to lack of work, yeah). He will retire now in Oct. but until then what are we to do? We have lost everything already. There is a very good chance we will be homeless before then. He is a 99er. He has put applications in everywhere in this country. He has had only three hits in 2 1/2 years! We are not lazy or uneducated just unemployed. How can people who come to this country pregnant get all the assistance they need but seniors are risk of being homeless from the used broken down mobile home we live in while those newcomers are living in $200,000.00 homes receiving multiple resources from OUR government?
#1 Posted by Gloria, CJR on Wed 14 Jul 2010 at 09:13 AM
Maybe, just maybe the Post could point out the democrat hypocrisy on PAYGO. You all remember PAYGO, it was one of the cornerstones of the 110th congress’s “100 Hour Plan” to restore fiscal responsibility to government, except for the fact that its ignored every time it inconvenient for them to follow it, like with the extension of unemployment benefits for the long term jobless.
#2 Posted by Mike H, CJR on Wed 14 Jul 2010 at 10:52 AM
Because of one of the largest grocery company in the south closing and out of business, me as a food sales rep. lost my job. I began sacking grocerys at age 15. I have always filed my taxes. Since the job loss came my house. I lived in this house for 20 years. I also have 5 children, 3 are in college. With all the stress I now have a failed marriage. My country has now turned its back on me. I have never asked to receive back money that I have paid in to the government, now that I have and needing it very badly, the door has been shut. If a extention cannot come through I feel not only I will be living in a shelter, but my children will suffer the most. Please all American Contractors hire American. Me and over one million just like me will remember this. It will have a big effect on our country. One million plus strong war on Washington.
#3 Posted by Byron Stephens, CJR on Fri 16 Jul 2010 at 09:29 AM
Stop listening to Limbaugh and Beck, Gloria.
No immigrant is receiving anything like the govt bennies you are talking about.
I am sorry for your situation, but lashing out at others and mindlessly repeating talk-radio fantasies is not the solution.
#4 Posted by Nancy Irving, CJR on Sat 17 Jul 2010 at 03:27 AM
So if Congress decides not to dole public money (that we don't have) to money private citizens who aren't working....
It's an institutional "failure" according to our "neutral" watchdog, Ms. Yeager...
Yep... No telling which side of the fence she's on, is there?
Yet another example of "professional journalism" at work.
I swear I'll never understand how you liberals honestly believe that promoting dependency, idleness and debt will achieve anything but misery for anybody.
Anyone who argues that unemployment payments somehow encourage people to find jobs is either crazy, stupid or a liar.
#5 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sat 17 Jul 2010 at 07:50 AM
How can you decide in this still failed economy to vote on a deadline bill when 26 , 35 43 and 99 weeks of millions are still out of work. Congress knows ALL Unemployed need a new Tier ot Tiers for an additional year! Change the Bills and insert ALL Unemployed through no faught of their own.Stop one siding these bills there are too many combinations still unemployed and not enough living jobs to hire them. Do something right ALL Unemployed know what you have done creating thes deadlines!
#6 Posted by Jim, CJR on Sat 17 Jul 2010 at 09:29 PM
How can you decide in this still failed economy to vote on a deadline bill when 26 , 35 43 and 99 weeks of millions are still out of work. Congress knows ALL Unemployed need a new Tier ot Tiers for an additional year! Change the Bills and insert ALL Unemployed through no faught of their own.Stop one siding these bills there are too many combinations still unemployed and not enough living jobs to hire them. Do something right ALL Unemployed know what you have done creating thes deadlines!
#7 Posted by Jim, CJR on Sat 17 Jul 2010 at 09:30 PM
Now I don't know how statistics reflect reality, I don't know if immigrants are showered with wealth, and I don't know how we found ourselves in this situation.
What I do know is that I have been unable to find work of any type, that many homes from family and people I know have been lost due to fore-closer, that businesses that have been around for years are gone, that all my personal assets (albeit few) have been liquidated just to provide food and gas.
I am proud to be an American and I know that we will come out of this difficult situation. I and my family may end up homeless for awhile, this is something I do not look forward to but it appears to be inevitable.
What I would like to see, is not unemployment but work! I will (as I am sure many others would too) work for any govt. funds that can keep my family off the streets and fed, I will sell some of my organs if possible. The times are tough and they may get tougher, many may die in the process, I really don't want to be in one of those numbers (personal reasons, I sort of like living), but if some of you believe that govt. help is detrimental to the motivation of self improvement and creates a lack of urgency towards self betterment, than I pity you in your ignorance and idiocy. Common sense dictates otherwise; remove a few govt. agencies such as police, military, fire and rescue, etc. and anarchy will spread like a plague, this is govt. help for the people by the people, and we are the people and we need to help each other to get through this.
Thanks.
#8 Posted by Thomas F. Marciniak II, CJR on Mon 19 Jul 2010 at 07:18 AM
The 99'ers can't let up on this issue, even after the "other extension" bill passes. It is ridiculous that there is even a division in who gets benefits. Stay on your Senators/Congress people. Let them know they will have millions of voters who will NOT be voting for them in November, if the 99'ers plight is not corrected.
Please, Please, Please do not give up! Keep writing to President Obama about this, and keep writing to Ed Schultz. He has taken a stand to keep this in the media, until it is resolved.
#9 Posted by Shelly B., CJR on Mon 19 Jul 2010 at 01:47 PM
The president today 7/19/2010 had a media talk on the unemployed and had several of unemployed individuals from 2 years to 1 year etc. He stated that people have exhausted their benefits and need help from the congress to help ALL Unemployed in this still jobless economy. It is now up to the congress to get a Bill to help provide a lifeline for all unemployed. The unemployed can now hold you congress accountable to any measure that deviates from what the president said about the unemployed. ALL Unemployed need a Bill to help provide additional lifeline for at least an additional year in this very slow recovery jobless economy. They need to do more they need to add additional weeks, Tier 5 or Tiers 5,6 to help all unemployed for at least additional year in this still slow job recovery. Just a few will not cut into millions out of benefits! All unemployed should stick together the governemnt caused this job issue and cutting everyone out with deadlines not the people who got benefits!
#10 Posted by Mary, CJR on Mon 19 Jul 2010 at 08:54 PM
The government doesn't owe you a job.
The government doesn't owe you milk money. Or rent money. Or school supply money for your kids. Or any money for anything.
If you don't have a job, get a job. If you can't find a job that pays what you want, take two jobs that pay less. If you can't find a job where you live... Move to a place where you can find a job.
Take some damned personal responsibility instead of lining up to suckle at the government's teat.
The pervasive culture of dependency on government will quickly ruin this country unless this communist stupidity is put to an end soon.
How anyone can honestly expect government intervention to improve any product or service, or to make any product of service cheaper or more efficient is beyond comprehension.
#11 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 10:07 AM
To this idiot padikiller, WHAT PART OF FOR EVERY 1 JOB 6 PEOPLE APPLY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?! Get a job? What an ignornant DOUCHE. Get your Sh*t together before you post ignorant remarks. The government DOES owe american people money because it's the American people's money MORON. The government has seemed to take care of Wall Street, Corporations, and the Oil and Auto industry just fine, but now that it comes down to the poor and average people not getting food on the table they don't owe any money? WOW! Some knock out this fool for saying stupid things like this!
#12 Posted by Mason, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 01:51 PM
PADKILLER.YOU ARE THE DUMMY.FIRST OF ALL MY DAUGHTER WAS IN A BAD ACCIDENT.SHE HAS STEEL PLATES IN HER FACE..SHE HAS SEISURES..SHE HAS SWELLING OF THE BRAIN THAT CAUSES MIGRAINS.SHE HAS BEN TURNED DOWN ON EVERY JOB SHE HAS APPLIED FOR AND I MIGHT ADD PLENTY OF THEM.SHE WAS DENIED SSI AND WE ARE NOW APPEALING THAT ,I LIVE ON A WIDOWS PENSION OF 661.00 A MONTH.SO TAKE YOUR HATEFUL REMARKS AND STICK THEM WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE.LET ME GUESS ,,YOU EAT STEAK FOR DINNER AT LEAST 6 NITES A WEEK..
#13 Posted by RITA, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 02:34 PM
I work my job for 36 years company went out business i was a printer .we need help look job for two years.Hard time
#14 Posted by Ted MARTIN, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 02:59 PM
Padkiller - You are are stupid ass moron. Go smoke some more pot or whatever your doing because you are not making any freaking sense.
#15 Posted by JW, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 04:10 PM
Padkiller - you are about the most ignorant
idiot in the U.S.A!!!!! go to hell! i hope one day you are jobless and have to go through what we are! you probly do not or ever have worked you just want to be a smart ass. move back to your country cause this one is not yours....bet you are illegal.
#16 Posted by pb, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 06:25 PM
Mason has a great point about the Wall Street bailouts. Wall Street is not entitled to public funds any more than any guy off the street. Bush should have been impeached for doling out money to Wall Street, and Obama should be impeached now.
For the rest of you... I Repeat...
The government doesn't owe you a damned job. The government doesn't owe you bandaids... Or heart surgery... Or milkshakes.. Or anything except the duty to ensure your freedom to make it on your own in a lawful and minimally instrusice democratic society.
If you lost your $80,000 per year job because of the utterly predictable decline in the American standard of living brought on by the Great Society... Get a $40,000 per year job and suck it up. Or two jobs. Or rake leaves, paint houses, crush aluminum cans, or do whatever it takes to support yourself and your family.
If you want unemployment insurance... Buy it.
STOP looking for bailouts from the government, cowboy up and start flipping burgers, mopping floors, stocking shelves, or doing whatever it takes to take care of yourself and your family.
Peace out!
#17 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 06:25 PM
I was laid off from a job I had for 10 years.
It was stressful and depressing. I had to take a 15 grand pay cut and work in a lousy place for a year and a half, and work evenings four days a week at a computer store part-time to pay the bills.
These are the breaks when you live in a free society where you can market your labor. With opportunity comes risk.
The government did not owe me a job. I had to bust ass and work a couple of crappy jobs to make ends meet for a couple of years.
Jack Kennedy was right. The government doesn't owe you anything... You owe the government...
It's hard to believe than it just 50 years, American society has gone from the point where even the liberals espoused Kennedy's common sense appeal to personal responsibility, to the point where a huge number of whiny-ass crybabies demand food, medicine and housing from the government.
#18 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 06:48 PM
Hmmm... Let's see here ... I have been unemployed off and on for almost 2 years now. Notice I said OFF & ON. That would mean that I have been putting in serious effort in seeking employment. I lost all of my health benefits along with my "decent" paychecks. I had an emergency surgery (life threatening) last year that put me so far in debt, I couldn't see straight. So I had to claim Bankruptcy in order to have some sort of sanity (by the way, I didn't have a single credit card debt on my bankruptcy claim ... so I am not someone that is irresponsible with money or credit cards). I have worked my butt off since I was 14 years old (I'm 40 now), and I have always paid my bills on time and have paid my taxes on time. But now that our country is experiencing an all out Depression (thanks Bush Admin) I am now behind on my taxes (thanks to having to PAY taxes on unemployment benefits aka kicking an already dead dog), and now I will be losing what little I have been trying to survive on now because CONGRESS thinks I'm a crackhead with no motivation to work??? WOW!!! AMAZING!!! Thanks for punishing hardworking Americans with your ridiculous logic. SHAME ON YOU!!! I hope you enjoyed your Crystal & caviar last weekend while I drank a bottle of Pepto-Bismol to relieve the ulcer I now have, thanks to you! I'm sure you will all feel MUCH better when all the people that have worked so hard to pay your way (yeah, we the people that pay our taxes, pay YOUR wages) will be living in TENT CITIES all across the great US of A!!! Just remember that their is a nice warm place waiting for you at the end of your journey called life. Or you could change that karma and help all of the good people that have pride and care about our nation and our families. If mandatory drug testing is what is needed to get some financial help ... then point me to the nearest office!
#19 Posted by She Ra, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 06:51 PM
Hmmm... Let's see here ... I have been unemployed off and on for almost 2 years now. Notice I said OFF & ON. That would mean that I have been putting in serious effort in seeking employment.
Sounds like you need to move to a place where you can find a job:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/05/cities-jobs-employment-leadership-careers-cx_tw_0105cities.html
I lost all of my health benefits along with my "decent" paychecks.
This is what happens when you depend on "somebody else" to pay your medical bills (an employer, the government, a charity).
I had an emergency surgery (life threatening) last year that put me so far in debt, I couldn't see straight.
I am sorry you had bad luck, but I'm glad you recovered.
So I had to claim Bankruptcy in order to have some sort of sanity (by the way, I didn't have a single credit card debt on my bankruptcy claim ... so I am not someone that is irresponsible with money or credit cards).
So you got free medical care and got your life saved through the use of the capitalist tool that the Founding Fathers were smart enough to toss into the Constitution.
I have worked my butt off since I was 14 years old (I'm 40 now), and I have always paid my bills on time and have paid my taxes on time. But now that our country is experiencing an all out Depression (thanks Bush Admin) I am now behind on my taxes (thanks to having to PAY taxes on unemployment benefits aka kicking an already dead dog)
So you want free income from the government AND you don't want to pay income tax like people who work for money do? Come on! Really?
and now I will be losing what little I have been trying to survive on now because CONGRESS thinks I'm a crackhead with no motivation to work??? WOW!!! AMAZING!!! Thanks for punishing hardworking Americans with your ridiculous logic. SHAME ON YOU!!!
Get off your ass and go pick up lead wheel weights and aluminum cans. Go work at McDonald's. Mop floors. Do whatever. Stop whining.
#20 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Tue 20 Jul 2010 at 07:08 PM
I'm a 99er, i submit my resume at least 10x a wk to employers. I've had three interviews in two years!! I need a better than avg. paycheck as i go to school nights. my benefits ran out 2 weeks ago.. don't know how I will survive
#21 Posted by Ryan, CJR on Wed 21 Jul 2010 at 01:27 PM
I need a better than avg. paycheck as i go to school nights.
TRANSLATION: "I don't want a crap job, so I want the government to pay me to go to school unless I can get a high-paying cushy job"
What a crock of crap.
If you want more than average pay, then do more than average work... What a concept! Burger King PLUS McDonalds. K-Mart PLUS Walmart. Exxon PLUS Sunoco. Whatever PLUS Whatever Else
my benefits ran out 2 weeks ago.. don't know how I will survive
Paint houses. Wash cars. Mow grass. Fix computers. Clean yards. Move furniture. Write news copy, or do some other menial, unskilled work for low pay. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Do work. Make money. Don't expect the government to provide for you and don't rely on your employer to pay your doctor's bill. And all will be good in your world. Stop whining and start working.
#22 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 21 Jul 2010 at 02:21 PM
I actually have GREAT parents who are paying for my schooling u piece of garbage!!! I don't depend on the gov't for anything but to help me through this difficult time!!! Do you have nothing else better to do than be a pain in the ass to people who are struggling???!!! Hopefully u can find some sort of peace and stop being so angry and cruel to others...
#23 Posted by Ryan, CJR on Wed 21 Jul 2010 at 03:16 PM
It is cruel to create a culture of dependency on government. It is cruel to foster reliance on others instead of self-reliance.
Case in point. Just look at you... Depressed, demotivated, whiny...
All because you can't fulfill your "need" for a "better than average paycheck" from Somebody Else.
Boo Friggin' Hoo... (cue violins)
Were you to rise from your hindparts and actually work to make money for what people are actually paying, you would be transformed from a drag on society into a motivated and happy contributor to society.
#24 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Wed 21 Jul 2010 at 03:44 PM
Hey fellow 99'ers...please note the time padikiller has to spend on his computer to send these idiotic comments. Based on the time of day he's sending them could only mean a couple of things...it either means he is sending them from work, ha ha( I doubt that this MORAN is smart enough to have a job), or he is just plain retarded! Just look back at the day and time he's sending them. Sat morning early, Sat evening late, Morning, day, and night. Looks like this pathetic jerk has NO life, and NO significant other. I will bet that he is fat, ugly, and if he had a brain he would try to take it out and play with it.
JUST GO BACK TO YOUR BORING DULL LITTLE LIFE PADICAKE. THE SHORT BUS WILL BE THERE TO PICK YOU UP IN THE MORNING.
To my fellow 99er's, hang in there we are all in this together. Screw Padicake.
#25 Posted by Breda, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 12:25 AM
A fat, ugly "moran"?????
Seriously?
You know you can't credibly refute the truth: namely that the governement doesn't owe you whiny crybabies lollipops, pacifiers, or a job...
So the best you can do is come back with a "nanny, nanny, boo, boo"?
Get off you ass and do work. Make money. Pay taxes. Stop you lazy whining. And don't line up to suckle at the government teat.
#26 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 06:41 AM
To Mr. Ryan,
What the h*ll do you mean by" better than average" paycheck? What about your financial aid?
#27 Posted by Paula Hunter, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 01:51 PM
Paddy....gotta say that I love the link you gave to find a place where there are jobs. Unfortunately, it's almost 99 week-old information (early January, 2009 article). Since we all seem to need your guidance in finding jobs - which you think grow on trees - maybe you would serve us better with a current place to find them. Thank you, Obi-wan.
#28 Posted by josie, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 03:05 PM
I have been working for 25 yrs. Twice the company I worked closed or left the area where I live. Both times I had to start over at lower salary and learn new skills. Each time it worked out that within 3 years I was earning more than before and expanding my skill set and market value. Thank God that America is truly the land of opportunity and we can constantly re-invent ourselves. 99ers are losers. How can anybody be out of work for 2 yrs - I honestly don't understand it. 99ers are bad Americans betraying their birthrights. Shame on you.
#29 Posted by aynwasright, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 03:49 PM
Listen jerk. I don't know long you've
been working and paying taxes, but I have doing both for 40 years. Your probably already on disabilty for some kind of mental problem. If not I sure hope that you get to enjoy some unemployment.
A fat, ugly "moran"? Absolutely!!!
Since you didn't mention a significant other or having no life, I'm going to conclude that you probably still live with mommy. I can see that your up early. You have to do that when you ride the short bus. "nanny, nanny, boo boo" is that the best you can do? You must be a real "wuss"!
Come on...send another comment so we can all see what a fool you are. I sure won't waste anymore time on you
#30 Posted by Breda, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 04:44 PM
Join the www.no-employment.com group! This is how we can make an impact!
#31 Posted by Melanie, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 08:56 PM
Join the www.no-employment.com group! This is how we can make an impact! Get your shirt
#32 Posted by Melanie, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 08:59 PM
Dear PadiKiller,
What do you do for work? Are they hiring at both or all three of your jobs; most especially, who watches your kids while you and your significant other juggle the struggles that encompass your joint efforts to maintain the financial and mental stability of your household? Your diatribe is fueled by a passion that
MUST come from your own similar experience and success. I assume your college education and master’s degree in economics will allow for you to provide an outline for the millions of people that you belittle. In fact, you must be a no less than a member of the government that you speak of and will soon sail on your high winded words with a solution to the current status of the economy. The real shame is you wasting your "talents" in this small corner of the world when clearly you could unseat anyone you chose; especially if you simply refrain from your obscured view and lift that sheet of untried comments. Regarding those jobs in other states that are so readily available for less pay: Do you suggest those people sell their houses and take a SIGNIFICANT loss (considering the market) or keep paying the mortgage and move to the other state paying to live, in a sense, in two states on less pay? What do you suggest when one spouse is holding a good job and will lose benefits if they move with the other spouse to get a job for significant less amount of money. Divorce; maybe split the family and add to the rest of what is wrong today? I apologize for throwing these questions at you. It is just that you seem to have your hands on the pulse of the state of the American economy. Instead of waiting with bated breath for your "educated" response, I will go tear my eyes out and punish myself by subjecting myself to episodes of Jerry Springer for accidently coming across this posting as I gathered information for my paper. BTW…"MORAN" or "MORON", you got the point, didn’t you? Too bad they can't fine people like you for their "comments" and stimulate the economy that way. Surely there would be no shortage of funds for those unfortunate individuals that are subjected to censure and opinionated negativity by people that "talk" sitting down. Stand up and go down and say to those peoples face and I might respect your penchant for "moranicalism". so you won’t feel so lonely. I know it isn't a word, I just couldn't resist!!!!!
#33 Posted by Melissa, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 10:03 PM
Oh no! Did they delete the part of my comment at the end: Insert braying laughter, "so you wont fee lonely?" :)
#34 Posted by Melissa, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 10:18 PM
Oh no! Did they delete the part of my comment at the end: Insert braying laughter, "so you wont feel lonely?" :)
#35 Posted by Melissa, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 10:19 PM
Padkiller is a troll. Look at any post on Global Warming and you'll find paddy yappity yapping about known disinformation such as "no significant scientific warming" which has been explained to him multiple times, but that doesn't stop him. Facts don't stop him.
So make your point and move on. He's not the kind to admit mistake or change his mind.
And yeah, the government shouldn't be putting people on unemployment during a recession/depression where there are 6 unemployed for every new job. The problem is a lack of labor demand, the answer isn't to kick the unemployed can down a few months so that unproductive labor can get paid to watch their skills further degrade, the answer is to create labor demand.
What the government should be doing is public works projects to rehabilitate infrastructure such as the energy grid and water distribution. You have all these construction and engineering specialists sitting idle as the real estate market continues to deflate, get them to work. The problem isn't a lack of need nor ability, it's a lack of will. Larry Goddamn Summers, the man who blew up Harvard's endowment and is greatly responsible for the deregulation that blew up the economy, HATES infrastructure.
You have to take it to Obama, he will not change his team and get competent people until you push him near the edge of a cliff. Rahm, Tim Geithner, Summers, Ken Salazar, Tim Kaine, Ben Bernanke, etc... they are conservatives. Obama is a conservative. Conservatives suck at governance, especially during a time of crisis. You have to push these conservatives out or they will ruin everything by letting it fall to ruin or by giving the ruiners rewards for their pillage. They want to preserve a collapsing pro-corporate anti-regulation system, not change it. They don't want strong labor, they don't want a strong left, they don't even want a strong social safety net which you paid for through your payroll taxes, they think you are f*cking retards who can't vote for anyone else.
Primary these guys, primary Obama, and replace them with people who respect the role of good governance or you will not fix the problem. You will be fighting for their kick the can policies, not for real policies which are designed to fix real problems. We need Feingolds, Frankens, Graysons, and Deans, not Rahmbots and other DLC garbage or Summers and other Milt Friedmanite losers.
You know what the Democrats are moving on now? Extending the Bush tax cuts, the ones that produced a revenue hole trillions of dollars deep and truely anemic growth during the 2001 recession.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/07/21/dems-to-extend-bushs-middle-class-tax-cuts/
They're conservatives. Stop supporting conservatives.
#36 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Thu 22 Jul 2010 at 10:19 PM
I'm a 99er too, i submit my resume at least 3 times a day im running out of places to apply too, i like a lot of 99ers were hoping that the new extension included us as well unfortunately it does not include a Tier 5, if they worry for the people that the money stopped for now what about us (the 99ers) our checks stopped many mounts ago i have worked for more than 8 years with out collecting and i know many people that have worked much longer and ,now that we need the help our years of payment in to the unemployment insurance means nothing 99 weeks max to collect but no max on how much we pay in after every year it is washed out all we want is what we paid in how can we be forgotten
#37 Posted by al, CJR on Fri 23 Jul 2010 at 02:23 AM
According to Thimbles, anyone who disagrees with the communist/progessive mantra is a "troll"...
Notice that NOBODY here can actually defend the ridiculous notion that the government owes citizens property, money or jobs.
And just look at Thimbles baiting by changing the subject to his favorite anticapitalist crack dream... global warming. Now WHO is the "troll", here?
What the Hell... I'll take the bait.
As far as the global warming nonsense goes...
There has been no scientfically significant global warming for 15 years.. PERIOD.
Even, Phil Jones, the guy at the center of the AGW movement has publically acknowleged this "inconvenient truth":
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html
Thimbles can sing.. Thimbles can dance... Thimbles can huff... Thimbles can puff...
But Thimbles can't change this little slice of reality.
And he certainly can't point to any particular AGW computer model that can both account for the lack of significant warming over the last 15 years and also generate Al Gore's silly "hockey stick", glacier-melting, temperature increase.
PERIOD.
#38 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 23 Jul 2010 at 07:21 AM
As has been pointed out numerous times, "scientfically significant" is not a scientific term. It is a padkiller term.
Statistically significant is the scientific term. It was used in the original BBC article that paddytroller doesn't site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm
"B - Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming
Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.
C - Do you agree that from January 2002 to the present there has been statistically significant global cooling?
No. This period is even shorter than 1995-2009. The trend this time is negative (-0.12C per decade), but this trend is not statistically significant."
And he knows this, it's been pointed out to him more than once, and he doesn't care.
Anyways, enough about the weather.
"Notice that NOBODY here can actually defend the ridiculous notion that the government owes citizens property, money or jobs."
The government is under the obligation to protect against threats from home and abroad, it's obligated to maintain a standard of general welfare and a robust commons, it's obligated to coordinate and provide resources in a crisis.
Right now we have a global economic crisis that has caused a drop in consumer demand due to a collapse in real estate. This was caused by criminals who pose a threat at home. The drop in consumer demand has caused a drop in labor demand affecting the welfare of citizens and the finances of states which are tightly coupled to economic activity. If the federal government doesn't step in to help the states and their residents now, then there is no point to the federal government. Crisis management is a primary function of the government.
That doesn't mean the government owes you a job when the private sector is strong and robust, just like the government doesn't mobilize the national guard because the weather is slightly overcast with a 10% chance of rain.
People in Washington talk stupid about how the oil spill is Obama's Katrina. That's dumb talk by people who don't understand the situation on the sea floor. (Although letting BP have free hand over the clean up effort, which has been beyond incompetent, makes some of that talk justified)
But the real estate crisis and the labor demand crisis are Obama's Katrinas. Obama's economic team and the federal reserve have sat on their hands for the most part after taking extraordinary measures to save the banksters. And now they're trying to get political advantage by outflanking the republicans on the fiscal responsibility and debt, which won't work because conservatives DON'T CARE when you spend money, they only care when you spend it on the wrong people. Nobody is going to congratulate the Obama at the polls for being tough on people and calling it "responsible" during a collapse.
Obama admin? Stop listening to conservatives and start doing your job!
#39 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Fri 23 Jul 2010 at 06:49 PM
I have been unemployed for over 2 years, my benefits ran out on April the 2nd, 2010, and I have tried everything possible to find work, and nothing yet. At this point I am just about ready to loose my car, and everything else as they did not extend unemployment for the 99 week unemployed. Yet, President Obama had a man with him that was out of work over 2 years saying that this Bill would help, does he not seriously read the Bills as the 99'ers were not included. Seriously I think it is awful that in these times that the Politicians did not include the people who are the worse off, personally I will now not even be able to get to job interviews as I do not have the funds to find a job, all these web sites now are starting to charge to post your resumes and to distribute, plus cost of fuel, parking, etc. In the old days if the unemployment rate was over 7.6 % they would keep extending benefits to all, what has happened to the so called American Dream. I had made it to the top of my field as Vice President of Business Development, and now can't even get a job at McDonalds. Plus after bailing out the Banks I think it is a crime that they increased interest rates to over 29% on credit card and lowered peoples credit limits, thus making it impossible to survive.
Sincerely,
John
#40 Posted by John, CJR on Sat 24 Jul 2010 at 12:17 PM
I to have been out of work for two and a half years,through no fault of my own. I have applied to so many company's,that I have run out of jobs to apply for.Had to bring my mother out of assisted living facility to take care of me. she has a brain tumor,have lost my home,auto,marriage,relationship with my son,because I cannot provide for him. All I want to do is work and it don't matter how many jobs I have to have to take care of myself and my son.WE NEED HELP PLEASE ADD MORE TIERS!
#41 Posted by Greg, CJR on Sat 24 Jul 2010 at 03:27 PM
Just look at the whiny culture of dependency and entitlement here! And this is America?
These lazy minions honestly expect Obama to cut them child support checks!
"I used to be the Senior Assistant Grand Poohbah of Development and now I can't find a job".
Too friggin' bad... Guess what? That's how it works out sometimes. Sh*t happens.
Guys... STOP wasting typing energy
begging for government charity and start painting houses. Or walking dogs. Or moving furniture. Or cutting trees. Or whatever. Throw an ad on craigslist or in the local paper. Hang up flyers. Knock on doors. Pick up cans. Hang out with the illegals at the Home Depot lot. DO WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE A LIVING.
DO WORK. GET PAID.
End of problem...
Look, you crybabies... Give it a damned rest. Any of you could find some gainful employment if you really wanted to. I know it. You know it. Everybody knows it.
You would just rather sit on your tails then actually do that "work" thing, while the government is still cutting checks. I know, I know. I can hear your whiny response now. "I've sent out ten resumes a week for a year and I haven't got one interview".
Well, then, it seems that you need to give up the postage and the resumes and turn instead beating the pavement to the 7-11 or the Quizno's to fill out an application.
A job is not a right, dudes. Nobody owes you a job or a living. Take some damned personal responsibility, get off you butts, and get to work.
#42 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 25 Jul 2010 at 07:56 AM
"STOP wasting typing energy begging for government charity and start painting houses."
But in that case you're dependent on someone needing a house to paint and is willing to pay a price for it.
"Or walking dogs."
But in that case you're dependent on someone having dogs to walk and willing to pay a price for it.
"Or moving furniture. Or cutting trees. Or whatever. Throw an ad on craigslist or in the local paper. Hang up flyers. Knock on doors. Pick up cans. Hang out with the illegals at the Home Depot lot. DO WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE A LIVING."
And in each of those cases you need someone to employ you, and if those people are scrimping back because times are tough, then you can't get that work.
And if you are a 50 year old, laid off, no spring chicken, worker, hard physical labor may not be an option.
In a world of opportunity their are plenty of options, but right now opportunity is depressed.
In which case what are our options, the city dump?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdKY6vE2iz8
The government owes the people a response, especially since it was republican government negligence which helped create the crisis and conservative coddling which preserved the fortunes of those who were most responsible for it.
We shouldn't be asking for hand outs, we should be demanding a hand up. We have 10% unemployment and a collapse in demand, someone should do something about that.
#43 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 25 Jul 2010 at 07:39 PM
We can't have 10% unemployment, Thimbles.
It never got higher than 7.9 % during the Bush administration, and Obama promised us more than a year ago that printing up a trillion dollars in "stimulus" money would keep the rate under 8%.
Remember?
As for the rest of your argument...
Nonsense...
If you honestly can't work because of a physical limitation, get on SSI or disability, Medicaid, Section 8, food stamps and go live the welfare life.
Otherwise, get your lazy, whiny ass to work and shut up.
The only "response" owed by the federal government to unemployed Americans is the duty to promote the GENERAL welfare by encouraging private sector employment.
And the Obamessiah is doing everything he can to destroy the private sector.
But it's all Bush's fault, of course.
#44 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 25 Jul 2010 at 08:26 PM
"We can't have 10% unemployment, Thimbles.
It never got higher than 7.9 % during the Bush administration, and Obama promised us more than a year ago that printing up a trillion dollars in "stimulus" money would keep the rate under 8%.
Remember?"
Sure I remember. Do you remember me saying Larry Summers and Tim Geithner were the kiss of death and that Obama was weakening his own bill trying to appeal to republicans who would never ever vote with him?
The banks tanked under Bush, the economy collapsed as a result, state revenues plunged through the floor because of the collapse, the result was the states ate the stimulus causing a much smaller boost than projected.
This was predicted. They should have had a bigger stimulus.
"If you honestly can't work because of a physical limitation, get on SSI or disability, Medicaid, Section 8, food stamps and go live the welfare life.
Otherwise, get your lazy, whiny ass to work and shut up."
No one can force a company to hire you, right? Then why should a company hire a 50 year old when he can get a dozen younger bodies if it wanted, which it doesn't since it's got a stockpile of unsold inventory.
Demand crisis = there are no jobs. There are perfectly good people who are out there trying to get jobs and can't, and your advice "Well try harder!" is about as useful as saying to someone trying to levitate, "Meditate harder!"
I've known some extraordinary people who were laid off before the crisis and could not get jobs. Why? Because they were old, they were experienced, and the companies hiring would apologize by saying "Sorry, you're too overqualified."
In 1994 I was working as a just out of high school burger flipper at McDonalds side by side with laid off guys with families who were competing for my minimum wage job.
Now that the economy's depressed and people are postponing retirement since they've lost their house value and their 401k values, where are the jobs?
One guy I knew in Canada who got the "overqualified" line from every place he talked to and had no problem finding work until he hit his forties, got his opportunity when the workers compensation board gave training and incentives to companies to take on the unemployed and put them to productive work.
In america, instead you've got the unemployed being kept unproductive while infrastructure desperately requires repairing and goddamned indentured labor is cleaning the gulf coast:
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_60741.shtml
You've got government programs that were supposed to help underwater home owners that make the problem worse by design:
http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2010/07/22/how-hamp-alone-makes-elizabeth-warren-the-only-choice-for-consumer-protection/
This is your "culture of independence" "small government" approach to problems, doing the very minimum required to maintain the status quo, or at least let it reduce at a comfortable rate. This is conservatism. Libs did not vote for Geithner, Summers, Rahm, Rubin, Bernanke, and all the little rats that run around beneath them.
They are conservatives. Obama's conservatives are running things. They bailed out the private sector with few strings attached and refuse to use the leverage they had during each crisis to demand regulation which protects the public.
They ignore the public as unemployment goes higher and higher claiming "Oh we don't have the votes," which they never will have if they don't use leverage and the threat of public accountability for these votes.
The initial circumstances were ALL Bush's fault, he was a horrible president who dumped his problems on the new candidate as he lim
#45 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 26 Jul 2010 at 01:08 PM
This is awful:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/07/26/hamp-is-hurting-liberalism/
The awful truth
http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/07/26/the-presience-of-george-carlin/
#46 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 26 Jul 2010 at 01:43 PM
23 years i worked for a company,When the economy crashed so did my job. you cant be to lazy when a small business kept you workin for 23 years. im forty seven years old,to find work now at another company is imposible, companies would rather hire somrone younger, I cant compete with younger.
should have been a politician. a 99er
#47 Posted by mike, CJR on Mon 26 Jul 2010 at 02:55 PM
I raised 5 healthy children who all have jobs, than The Good Lord. But after 23 years without missing a paycheck, NO one will hire me ( Associates Degree ) to even flip burgers. I will lie, steal, cheat, or deceive, to keep from losing my house with 90% equity and supporting my disabled wife. Don't make me do it.
#48 Posted by John Ask, CJR on Tue 27 Jul 2010 at 10:31 PM
Dear Nancy Irving-Thank you for the response to my post regarding our families situation. As a reminder to the readers, my husband is a 99er who lost his job 2 wks before turning 60. I questioned how come we cannot receive assistance (i.e. Tier V, Medicaid - I am disabled) when we have worked for 42 years and NEWCOMERS who are pregnant when they come to this country get assistance immediately. Ms. Irving instructed me to stop making mindless comments and stop listening to Limbaugh and Beck. For your information Ms. Irving, I don't listen to talk radio! I can stand Glen Beck and have never heard a word from Limbaugh. My comments are based on my own experiences at the DHS office in my community and our continual struggle in corresponding with any and all agencies of our gov't. for assistance until my husband can retire in Oct.! In one weeks time he submitted over 100 hundred resumes and we have submitted well over a thousand within the 2 1/2 yrs. of being unemployed. His last submission was yesterday to another temp. agency. The day before was to Wal-mart has a door greeter! The jobs are not there to be had. You said you were sorry for our situation. Don't pity us, pity our gov't and your own ignorance. Sincerely, Gloria from Michigan.
#49 Posted by Gloria, CJR on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 09:45 AM
so glad you got yours "padikiller"
#50 Posted by fiction941, CJR on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 02:14 PM
John Ask wrote: after 23 years without missing a paycheck, NO one will hire me ( Associates Degree ) to even flip burgers. I will lie, steal, cheat, or deceive, to keep from losing my house with 90% equity...
padikiller responds: TAP the home equity, open a burger joint, work your ass off and make money!..
It's called "The American Way"... SELF-RELIANCE
STOP whining and START working.
Nobody owes you a job, pal!
#51 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 08:16 PM
Thimbles wrote: Demand crisis = there are no jobs
padikiller responds: This statement sums up the sad state of affairs that liberalism has wrought upon our society.
OF course their are jobs. Everywhere you look, people are working away making money.
Sure things have slowed down. Sure fewer people are hiring. But if you can't find someone who will put you on the payroll, then MAKE a job.
COMPETE.
Pick up garbage. Mow lawns. Paint houses. Move furniture. Watch kids.
DO WHATEVER...
The government doesn't owe you a job!
#52 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 08:24 PM
"AND you don't want to pay income tax like people who work for money do?"
And you do? Good! We have a Republican in favor of taxes. That's progress. I times like this there aren't any jobs, but you can finagle a seasonal gig working for a government agency funded by property taxes. That's what I do. It's no computer store gig but then fighting the spread of global warming propelled West Nile Virus isn't a common job. My unemployment compensation will continue when the job ends in the fall. No benefits. Extended UI benefits, which come with a myriad of caveats, do stimulate the macroeconomy. You have to go to college to know that though.
#53 Posted by Mark A. York, CJR on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 10:39 PM
Preplanned Mooching, Illustrated:
Dr. York writes: I times like this there aren't any jobs, but you can finagle a seasonal gig working for a government agency funded by property taxes. That's what I do. It's no computer store gig but then fighting the spread of global warming propelled West Nile Virus isn't a common job. My unemployment compensation will continue when the job ends in the fall.
padikiller scoffs: This grown man is already planning to mooch off the government when his temporary job ends.
Pathetic.
This is precisely what I'm talking about, people.
#54 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 10:55 PM
"And he certainly can't point to any particular AGW computer model that can both account for the lack of significant warming over the last 15 years and also generate Al Gore's silly "hockey stick", glacier-melting, temperature increase.
PERIOD."
I can, turkey scratch in Lynchburg.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2010/07/the-montford-delusion/
Anyway you cut the data, a hockey stick bats your thick head. Facts are stubborn things that idiots and ideologues won't accept. We call that clueless where I come from.
#55 Posted by Mark A. York, CJR on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:09 AM
Dropout idiot. Of course, you are living off your wife's income, aside from the video store earnings. Some folks really have it together and they preach. Eff off.
#56 Posted by Mark A. York, CJR on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:14 AM
You do know, Lynchburg, that UI is paid by the employer who refuses to keep you employed, right? That's the deal. All they have to do is not lay you off and they don't have to pay not to keep you employed. Why don't they, nimrod?
#57 Posted by Mark A. York, CJR on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:18 AM
Just look at this prime example of the culture of dependency that plagues the left side of the political spectrum:
"UI is paid by the employer who refuses to keep you employed, right? That's the deal. All they have to do is not lay you off and they don't have to pay not to keep you employed. Why don't they, nimrod?"
Yeah...
It's "somebody else's" responsibility to give you a job, Dr. York. You're entitled to it.
Of course, Dr. York is way off base here.
Private employers bear the cost of paying for the unemployment benefits of those laid off by states (like the welfare check Dr. York so anxiously anticipates receiving as he sits onn his hindparts this fall).
Furthermore, much of the cost of extended unemployment benefits (the subject of this thread) falls directly on taxpayers.
By why let the mere truth get in the way of good liberal fairy tale, right?
#58 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 07:11 AM
the other guy was right...receiving 99 Weeks of Benefits is Enough..we dont have to give more Handouts...u have 2 Years to find a job...
#59 Posted by rich, CJR on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 08:17 PM
padKiller is right
#60 Posted by rich, CJR on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 08:19 PM
he Said "Otherwise, get your lazy, whiny ass to work and shut up."
i concur
#61 Posted by rich, CJR on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 08:23 PM
Nobody owes you a job:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/7/31/889139/-The-Lede:-Jobs-Outlook-Dims,-And-Its-A-Sin-And-A-Shame
And if you start a business in a deep recession, no one owes you any customers either, since many of those potential customers are unemployed.
Unless you play that game very well, the only one owing anything is you.
#62 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 01:37 AM
We are not in a "deep recession"... If you believe the government figures (a stretch, to be sure), we are not in ANY recession. And if you believe the "professional journalists" of the MSM (an even tighter stretch), we are in fact in an "unexpectedly" slow "recovery".
But there is no denying the fact that times are hard and that the American standard of living is declining relative to the rest of the world.
So COMPETE. PERFORM. INNOVATE. CREATE. ETC. ETC. ETC.
On your own.
Contribute to the economy instead of leeching from it.
And stop wasting your time whining that the government isn't paying your DSL bill while you sit around on your lazy ass typing away on your laptop bitching about the cushy career you lost.
#63 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 08:23 AM
Hey jerkoff, I'm not the one without work. In fact I have my own business and I can find jobs if my business ever went sour. I have no lack of entrepreneurial skill.
But there's a difference between my circumstances and others, differences in age, in schooling, in experience, and I don't take my personal circumstances and extend them to everyone alive. That would be dumb.
"We are not in a "deep recession"... If you believe the government figures (a stretch, to be sure), we are not in ANY recession. And if you believe the "professional journalists" of the MSM (an even tighter stretch), we are in fact in an "unexpectedly" slow "recovery"."
Well these people have a stupid and shallow understanding of economics, and I made that point in a post that remains in the comment tank (because I accidentally exceeded the two link rule)
But yeah, you and these people need to read your Roubini for homework. There are two economies in America, the one for the educated and high earning and the one for the rest of us:
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini19/English
"Consider the following facts. While America’s official unemployment rate is already 10.2%, the figure jumps to a whopping 17.5% when discouraged workers and partially employed workers are included. And, while data from firms suggest that job losses in the last three months were about 600,000, household surveys, which include self-employed workers and small entrepreneurs, suggest that those losses were above two million.
Moreover, the total effect on labor income – the product of jobs times hours worked times average hourly wages – has been more severe than that implied by the job losses alone, because many firms are cutting their workers’ hours, placing them on furlough, or lowering their wages as a way to share the pain.
Many of the lost jobs – in construction, finance, and outsourced manufacturing and services – are gone forever, and recent studies suggest that a quarter of US jobs can be fully outsourced over time to other countries. Thus, a growing proportion of the workforce – often below the radar screen of official statistics – is losing hope of finding gainful employment, while the unemployment rate (especially for poor, unskilled workers) will remain high for a much longer period of time than in previous recessions...
Moreover, income and wealth inequality is rising again: poorer households are at greater risk of unemployment, falling wages, or reductions in hours worked, all leading to lower labor income, whereas on Wall Street outrageous bonuses have returned with a vengeance. With the stock market rising while home prices are still falling, the wealthy are becoming richer, while the middle class and the poor – whose main wealth is a home rather than equities – are becoming poorer and being saddled with an unsustainable debt burden.
So, while the US may technically be close to the end of a severe recession, most of America is facing a near-depression. Little wonder, then, that few Americans believe that what walks like a duck and quacks like a duck is actually the phoenix of recovery."
The private sector is still deleveraging and the government is talking about austerity measures, not recovery. The recession's return is as predictable as a hot summer after an anomalous winter (remember that one?)
As Roubini puts it:
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini27/English
"The global economy, artificially boosted since the recession of 2008-2009 by massive monetary and fiscal stimulus and financial bailouts, is headed towards a sharp slowdown this year as the effect of these measures wanes. Worse yet, the fundamental excesses that fueled the crisis – too much debt and leverage in the private
#64 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 09:18 AM
Some fascinating reading about the culture that was and the culture to come:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/03/how-a-new-jobless-era-will-transform-america/7919/1/
#65 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 09:28 AM
Thimbles wrote: The government should be using the surplus labor, it's not as if there's a shortage of things that could doing. It would be better to spend a few billion doing federal projects that build the state economy and state infrastructure than it is for the federal government to keep potentially productive people on the dole. Is that so unreasonable?
padikiller responds: I will never understand this blind faith in the government.
Why do you have faith that the government can administer ANYTHING more efficiently than private businesses?
Your reasoning is patently shortsighted. It's not just the "spending of a few billion dollars" that makes problems... It's the BORROWING of the "few billion dollars". Or the TAXING of the "few billion dollars". Whatever money that dumps into the economy by means of the paychecks of the "surplus laborers" hired by the government comes out of the economy directly from people who are contributing the most to the economy. The rest of this money (and likely the bulk of it) goes to the same place most money goes in government programs - waste, fraud, unnecessary or imprudent projects, etc.
What you are suggesting is that money be taken from people (ultimately at gunpoint by U.S. Marshals) who are hard-working, successful or lucky and given to those who aren't working, unsuccessful or unlucky. Your proposal amounts to nothing more than communism, and history has shown what joy communism brings to the world.
How can rewarding the indiligent, idle, unfortunate and unsuccessful citizens at the expense of diligent, productive, fortunate and successful people possibly amount to sound economic policy?
It can't, of course.
The best way to improve the American condition is foster the American way- INDEPENDENCE, mistrust of government, self-reliance, ingenuity, diligence, creativity, etc.
And the best way to do this is encourage the people with the above (positive and negative) traits to work more. Then you will have successful businesses, job creation and a true economic recovery.
For those who truly can't work, the government should provide a safety net.
But for the rest of them... Too friggin' bad!
GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND GET A DAMNED JOB.
#66 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 09:58 AM
"I will never understand this blind faith in the government."
It's not about faith, it's about function. I don't trust the government to make wars, but making war is not a private sector function for what should be obvious reasons.
In similar fashion, I don't trust the government to save an economy which is plummeting towards depression, but when the private sector is unable to respond, responding is a government function.
You don't get that so you are choosing to rebleat yourself with the same points that show you don't get the reality some people are facing nor the economics behind that reality. "Ooooh you're stealing from the producers and giving to the unproducers! That's communism!"
You are wrong about this. Producers need a system to produce in. The more that system collapses, the more producers turn into unproducers. You need demand in order to become a supply. Demand has collapsed. People don't want things, they want to get rid of things. As the economy dumps things, it dumps the jobs that make things. Do you understand? The system is in collapse, it has been for a couple of years. The government has done enough to make the system collapse more slowly, but it has not stopped the collapse.
If you let the system collapse, you will get full on deflation and no-one's job will be safe because there will be no money. You don't know what's that like, you haven't lived through that. You want to blame character flaws for a lack in labor demand. YOU DON'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE. You don't know their circumstances, you don't understand the economy their circumstances are set in, you don't know what it's like to live through these episodes of systemic collapse. That's your fault. You are lazy and you don't study history, economics, or science. You talk about things that are far from your experience and expertise.
But wait.. A time is coming when you will have experience and you may develop expertise in what it's like to be surplus. It's going to be so easy for conservatives to let the system collapse so they can pretend the crisis is a morality failure and not a policy failure.
And they'll wring their austere hands over what to do about the "indiligent, idle, unfortunate, and unsuccessful" and all that hand wringing won't mean dick to you because you're starving and you'd steal food if the shops weren't bolted up.
You lost hope in getting a job long ago, along with 20-25% of the population. Now you wander the city and countryside, picking up garbage, mowing lawns, painting houses, moving furniture... for food.
It's happened before. It will easily happen again. We just have to let it. From the looks of things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ssIhiD8kKM
That's what we are doing.
#67 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 11:03 AM
Thimbles runs off on another ad hominem dodge: .YOU DON'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE. You don't know their circumstances, you don't understand the economy their circumstances are set in, you don't know what it's like to live through these episodes of systemic collapse. That's your fault. You are lazy and you don't study history, economics, or science. You talk about things that are far from your experience and expertise.
padikiller responds: Typical leftist knee-jerk name-calling.
If you can refute the argument, call your opponent an idiot.
As a matter of fact, I (a licensed professional with a graduate education) run a small business that I started from scratch in 2003 employing 8 people. I am solely responsible for making sure these people get paid every Friday (a responsibility that our Dear Leader has never known).
So give it a rest, and deal with the issues
Thimbles continues: In similar fashion, I don't trust the government to save an economy which is plummeting towards depression, but when the private sector is unable to respond, responding is a government function.
padikiller responds: The private sector is unwilling to leap into Obamunism.
The government made the bulk of this mess in the real estate market. Even Alan Greenspan was forced to admit as much.
Capitalism, regulated only to extent necessary to maintain competitive, free markets, it self-correcting and guarantees sustained long-term growth.
Prudent investments bring reward to investors and grow the economy. Imprudent investments bring punishment to investors but still grow the economy.
The mess we find ourselves in now is the result of government intervention in free markets - removing the punishment for making imprudent investments with taxpayer funded bailouts and interfering with free markets through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Thimbles waxes Chicken Little: A time is coming when you will have experience and you may develop expertise in what it's like to be surplus
padikiller scoffs: Yeah... We have to let the Government lead us out of Armageddon. Now THERE'S a great plan...
Thimbles ratchets it up to Nostradamus level: Now you wander the city and countryside, picking up garbage, mowing lawns, painting houses, moving furniture... for food.
padikiller: You've put a little too much thought into your little wet dream there Thimbles.
But working for food is a WHOLE let better than counting on the government to feed you.
You managed to blither through your entire reply without answering the question...
WHY is it good policy to snatch money at gunpoint from people who are smart, hard-working, lucky or successful and dole it out to those who are dumb, lazy, unlucky or failures?
HUH?
How exactly does this wonderful plan amount to sound fiscal policy?
#68 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 01:04 PM
"Thimbles runs off on another ad hominem dodge: .YOU DON'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE. You don't know their circumstances, you don't understand the economy their circumstances are set in, you don't know what it's like to live through these episodes of systemic collapse. That's your fault. You are lazy and you don't study history, economics, or science. You talk about things that are far from your experience and expertise.
padikiller responds: Typical leftist knee-jerk name-calling."
Oh. I see. It's wrong to assume people are lazy. I shouldn't have assumed you were lazy just because you didn't study history, economics, or science and yet you choose to talk about them. I am so sorry.
"padikiller responds: The private sector is unwilling to leap into Obamunism."
That has nothing to do with nothing. I shouldn't have assumed you were lazy because it's apparent you studied meaningless garbage.
"The government made the bulk of this mess in the real estate market. Even Alan Greenspan was forced to admit as much."
Wrong. It was the banks who made the defective loan products so that traders could book the sales and collect the bonuses while betting against them. That was the flaw Alan Greenspan admitted he found in his philosophy. But it's wrong of me to assume you're lazy just because you've not bothered to get the faintest comprehension of the 2007 crash and yet you want to talk about it. Blame it on Obamunism, I guess.
"The mess we find ourselves in now is the result of government intervention in free markets - removing the punishment for making imprudent investments with taxpayer funded bailouts and interfering with free markets through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
Wrong. The mess we find ourselves in is because the government failed to do intervention in the form of regulation and actually encouraged predatory lending and fraud. The damage was already done by the time Freddy and Fannie took a plunge in the market. But I should not assume you are lazy in spite of the fact you are reciting a myth on a website which has debunked that myth many times. I should assume you can't read, I guess.
"padikiller scoffs: Yeah... We have to let the Government lead us out of Armageddon. Now THERE'S a great plan..."
During a depression/deflation cycle, what else is there? You'd know the answer if you studied the depression, but, it's not that you're lazy.. it's something else.. another word that's like lazy but isn't...help me out.
"padikiller: You've put a little too much thought into your little wet dream there Thimbles."
Indiligent! That's the word. I'm not going to assume you're indiligent.
You managed to blither through your entire reply without answering the question...
"WHY is it good policy to snatch money at gunpoint from people who are smart, hard-working, lucky or successful and dole it out to those who are dumb, lazy, unlucky or failures?"
Oooh. You didn't use the word indiligent. I guess you're too lazy..
Too lazy to read and comprehend my previous post at any rate.
""Ooooh you're stealing from the producers and giving to the unproducers! That's communism!"
You are wrong about this. Producers need a system to produce in. The more that system collapses, the more producers turn into unproducers. You need demand in order to become a supply. Demand has collapsed. People don't want things, they want to get rid of things. As the economy dumps things, it dumps the jobs that make things. Do you understand? The system is in collapse, it has been for a couple of years. The government has done enough to make the system collapse more slowly, but it has not stopped the collapse.
If you let the system collapse, you will get full on deflation and no-one's job will be safe because there will be no money. You don't know what's that like, you haven't lived through that."
WHY is it good pol
#69 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 03:09 PM
"Padkiller is a troll. Look at any post on Global Warming and you'll find paddy yappity yapping about known disinformation such as "no significant scientific warming" which has been explained to him multiple times, but that doesn't stop him. Facts don't stop him.
So make your point and move on. He's not the kind to admit mistake or change his mind."
I should really listen to my own adivce
#70 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 03:15 PM
padikiller: WHY is it good policy to snatch money at gunpoint from people who are smart, hard-working, lucky or successful and dole it out to those who are dumb, lazy, unlucky or failures?
HUH?
How exactly does this wonderful plan amount to sound fiscal policy?
Thimbles' non-response: WHY is it good policy spend money on people when its needed and tax from people when it's not? Because it is.
padikiller replies: Now Thimbles... You are dodging the question yet again! I didn't ask about taxing "people" and spending money on the same "people".
I want to know how it is sound fiscal governmental policy to seize money from people who are contributing to the economy and dole it out to people who aren't producing.
There is a very good reason you can't answer the question. Because you know that it is just stupid to take money from productive citizens and dole it out to unproductive citizens.
EVERYBODY knows it.
It seems that you believe (for some unspecified reason) that a "collapsing" economy turns "producers" into "unproducers". Given this questionable reasoning, it would seem the best policy to prevent the deleterious conversion by letting the producers keep more of their own money- and thus forestalling the dreaded deproductive conversion.
Right?
#71 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 06:57 PM
"I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious." - Thomas Jefferson - Letter to William Ludlow, September 6, 1824
#72 Posted by padikiller, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 07:13 PM
"Right?"
No, you're not.
#73 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Sun 1 Aug 2010 at 11:42 PM
"The government should be using the surplus labor, it's not as if there's a shortage of things that could doing. It would be better to spend a few billion doing federal projects that build the state economy and state infrastructure than it is for the federal government to keep potentially productive people on the dole. Is that so unreasonable?
It is to the nimrods in Washington."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/02/opinion/02krugman.html
Sigh.. When will they ever learn.
#74 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 2 Aug 2010 at 12:25 AM
People, do your homework. The double dip is coming and here's he must read list of people who think so and person who disagrees:
http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-us-likely-to-experience-double-dip.html
#75 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 2 Aug 2010 at 01:28 AM
Let me know when the real revolution starts and real people are on the real streets with real voices in the goverments faces showing them we mean real buisness instead of all this sissy blog bs.
I just mean we are as bad as congress and talk, talk, talk instead of doing something, “real”, like organizing and marching on Washington to show them and the media this is real and not going away.
Perhaps a same day march in every city, those in DC on Congress, those in state capitol cities on that statehouse, and those in other places march on the local city hall. All on the same day.
#76 Posted by CJ, CJR on Mon 2 Aug 2010 at 02:27 PM
In order for the public to participate meaningfully in a democracy, it must be informed.
Otherwise it's not an informed populace, it is a mob.
Now normally it is the press's job to inform the public, but they do that job horrifically from time to time. Therefore we have to engage in "all this sissy blog bs." before we can march on Washington so that we know what principles we are marching for.
#77 Posted by Thimbles, CJR on Mon 2 Aug 2010 at 04:39 PM
BREAKING NEWS: AUG 4TH
Sen. Stabenow Introduces Tier 5 Unemployment Extension 2010
The Tier 5 unemployment extension 2010 bill is cosponsored by Senators Charles Schumer (D-NY), Harry Reid (D-NV), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Carl Levin (D-MI), Bob Casey (D-PA), Chris Dodd (D-CT), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Jack Reed (D-RI), and Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), according to a message posted on her website.
Source: stabenow.senate.gov/press/2010/080410Americanswanttoworkact.htm
#78 Posted by David, CJR on Thu 5 Aug 2010 at 03:57 AM
Help wanted
Looking for 99er’s to run for congress and senate
QUALIFICATIONS:
MUST HAVE A HEART!
MUST BE INDEPENDENT PARTY MEMEBERS NEED NOT APPLY !…….
Must be happy with $270,000 a year salary
Must have high MORAL VALUES ------ wont take bribes from lobbyist
Must hate lobbyist
( Must work for the American people not against them! )
Are you tired of false promise coming out of Washington and politics as usual?
Are you tired of the lies and a Government out of control?
Then together lets pool our pennies and get YOU on the ballots and get you ELECTED
And throw these idiots out of Washington!
The politically entreanched do not believe the American people can rise up and take back their Government.
The Ron pauls and Ross Perots are only interested in the presidency so they are worthless
To us.
The tea party only wants to get rich! Another worthless endeavor.
Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and rise up, together we can do it!
This is our time to take back Washington in 2012
And show these IDIOTS in Washington we have had enough - no more!
We are done with them - TILT - GAME OVER!
And once we are there we will put amendments - no more wars the president can declare war in an emergency, but if it is not taken to a vote before the American people it EXSPIRES IN 90 DAYS .It will take a vote of the people to before a war can be Continued.
We are their worse nightmare, we can take our Government back!
WAKE UP AMERICA………………………………..........!
#79 Posted by DALE CUTHBERTSON, CJR on Sat 7 Aug 2010 at 10:34 AM
Padi, what are your qualifications that give you the right to make these comments, you ignorant (expletive deleted).
Do you honestly think that most of the unemployed dont want jobs? I am 67 and I SHOULD be retired, but I NEED A JOB....There is age discrimination but I do my "work" every day for job searching. I cant get a call-back, an interview, but I keep trying.
YOu are obviously living in an alternate universe. OR you need a full frontal lobotomy
#80 Posted by Karen Erdrich, CJR on Wed 25 Aug 2010 at 11:19 AM
This is a touchy subject to comment on, because there are excellent positions available -- but the 99ers are not properly getting in front of these opportunities for consideration. I am very sympathetic to their situation, but the reality is that it should not take 2 years for anyone to find a position.
I can say this because I have been a job search professional helping people find jobs for 21+ years. On average, it takes my clients 5 weeks to find a position -- even in these difficult economic times.
The problem is not that the 99ers are lazy or inept, but they are using ineffective methods to find a job (online ads, recruiters and networking). Of course, these are the techniques society "teaches" job seekers to follow, but these techniques, on average, take 8-10 months to be successful. So, we then have a huge population of capable workers out of work for long periods of time -- which is a drain on themselves and their families ... and society.
To help during this difficult economic time, I created a free job search website that will show the Secret to Successful Job Search -- how to get in front of key decision makers within companies before the position is advertised. It also includes free resumes, letters, interview questions and instructional videos.
http://www.Jayobi.com
If you are a 99er or know one, I hope this will help!
#81 Posted by Doug Hindman, CJR on Tue 31 Aug 2010 at 06:34 PM
Lots of people are really hurting but the back and forth regarding entitlements from government hand outs is missing the point. Most Americans today are totally and completely missing the point. Don't you see, this economic disaster is bigger then our elected officials, the biggest problem with today's economy is the American consumer. If you shop at Wal-Mart, Kmart, Whatever-mart and purchase items made outside of the USA you are a front line contributor to the current state of the US economy. Don't write back to me telling me you cant find American Made products anymore, I know that!
You, me and everyone else who has any skin in this game need to take a leading roll today. Finding the manager of your local store and ask him/her why you cant locate X product made here in America. Yes, he will tell you its not available and you'll likely accept that answer and either buy the, job killing, import or you can let him know that its not acceptable and pass on the item. We adult Americans act more as children today by simply accepting what the powers-that-be tell us. Take your cause to the street, get others involved in picketing the store. We Americans and especially the unemployed need to get off our asses, out from behind the computer monitor and TV and be seen and heard in the street telling our elected officials and our local stores what we want and expect.
Believe me, I feel for all of you and I soon will be joining the unemployed ranks as the business I have worked for over the last ten years shuts it doors for good. Again I understand your pain but the endless whining is not going to fix anything. YOU must be willing to take action. You must be willing to appear in person to voice your opinion as well openly tell others you thoughts. These actions can be done in a friendly and fact of the matter tone. No need for hostility, as it most often just gets in the way of your message.
If you are not willing to take real action then maybe I've misjudged the American populist. Are we, just as many have described, a bunch of whinny, hand out taking, Me-Me-Me, bitchers.
For those interested in change, the good news is we can start fixing this problem today. YOU must take action yourself, you must change your consumer ways, you must start putting your money where your mouth is. You must buy local whenever possible and you must demand American Made products. Just as this problem took years to overtake our economy it will also take time to recede. You are the only one you can change, its up to you!
just my 2 cents.
-JM
#82 Posted by John, CJR on Tue 9 Nov 2010 at 01:48 PM
I do not have any surefire answers for the long-term unemployed. I have a small service business in Tennessee and have been self-employed almost my entire adult life. I am 50 now. For the past several months, I have been searching the internet and contacting folks who have been profiled in articles about the unemployed, about the kind of work that I do and share about my work and see if it would work for them in their situation. Not a cure all, but I have helped a few start their own business in that regard. My one suggestion to business owners out there is to share your business experience and know how and help the unemployed in other cities start their own business--there is no risk of "competition" if they are not in your general area. It will give some hope for sure and maybe start a trend of lending a hand instead of the constant criticizing the unemployed. If someone who is unemployed would like to contact me, my email is steve37341@gmail.com. I answer all replies.
#83 Posted by Steve Smith, CJR on Sun 19 Dec 2010 at 08:15 AM